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Old 07-16-2020, 06:56 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
I'm sorry: I should have specified that I I was speaking only about brakes and braking systems.
Most of the States (At least the ones with lawmakers that can actually write an effective law ...); treat a Toad exactly as they treat a trailer.
If it's hooked-up to you, and your pulling it: there's no difference.

To be fair: I am NOT a Lawyer.
But I do sell insurance. I've seen the accident reports... You don't want to get pushed into a situation that is going to hurt you or your Family.
I do appreciate the replies. I've really only looked up CA law but I always check laws before I travel somewhere. CA doesnt require brakes on TOADs.

The accident report is the kind of stuff I was curious about. A couple of the websites I found had pictures of RV accidents with TOADs, but the caption under the pics all said "not caused by lack of braking system." I know lack of a braking system is but used as a PCF on accident reports but I could see it being in the narrative as an additional factor.

I think that anytime you are towing you should be giving enough room and time to stop without having to rely in additional braking. As I'm sure you well know, 99% of accidents are completely avoidable. I bet most of the accidents while towing were either due to speed or following too closely. While a braking system will help with those, so will slowing down and leaving more room.
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:01 PM   #22
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An interesting thread. My personal opinion (which nobody asked for!) is that anyone towing a car behind a motorhome is foolish if they donít use a braking system. Brakes on our coaches are marginal to begin with and adding the momentum of a ton or more pushing on the back can only hurt performance in an emergency. Likewise having four more tires bleeding off speed can only help. I had a deer jump out in front of me and I was thankful for every ounce of stopping power I had

I agree with you here for the most part. A braking system can increase safety and be helpful. Although in most cases slower speeds and more following distance can accomplish the same. A deer is an entirely different story even with additional brakes.

I towed a car years ago with a simple steel rigid A- frame tow bar. It worked fine but the newer, light weight non-binding bars is so much worth the added cost that I canít even find the words. I bought a new Blue Ox Ascent from the Amazon warehouse for under $700 and its wonderful. Using a cheap bar and no brakes is like choosing to drive an old car with no ABS or power steering because itís ďnot neededĒ. Certainly true but for most of us somewhat closed minded. But whatever floats your boat!
My harbor freight bar doesnt bind, there is nothing to bind on it. I spend maybe $80 on it and another $100 for the adapters to connect to my bumper. Other than ease of operation, I see no benefit to shelling out a ton of money for a blue ox.
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:14 PM   #23
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I'll only speak to tow bars. I have been using the same towbar, a Blue Ox Adventurer since 2000. I have used it on 4 or 5 toads. There is nothing to it and requires almost no maintenance. When I moved up to a class a, I thought about getting one of those fancy aluminum telescoping jobbers, but upon reading forums decided my old tow bar was just fine.
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:17 PM   #24
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...I think that anytime you are towing you should be giving enough room and time to stop without having to rely in additional braking. As I'm sure you well know, 99% of accidents are completely avoidable. I bet most of the accidents while towing were either due to speed or following too closely. While a braking system will help with those, so will slowing down and leaving more room.
Amen...
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Pete'sMH View Post
An interesting thread. My personal opinion (which nobody asked for!) is that anyone towing a car behind a motorhome is foolish if they donít use a braking system. Brakes on our coaches are marginal to begin with and adding the momentum of a ton or more pushing on the back can only hurt performance in an emergency. Likewise having four more tires bleeding off speed can only help. I had a deer jump out in front of me and I was thankful for every ounce of stopping power I had

I agree with you here for the most part. A braking system can increase safety and be helpful. Although in most cases slower speeds and more following distance can accomplish the same. A deer is an entirely different story even with additional brakes.

I towed a car years ago with a simple steel rigid A- frame tow bar. It worked fine but the newer, light weight non-binding bars is so much worth the added cost that I canít even find the words. I bought a new Blue Ox Ascent from the Amazon warehouse for under $700 and its wonderful. Using a cheap bar and no brakes is like choosing to drive an old car with no ABS or power steering because itís ďnot neededĒ. Certainly true but for most of us somewhat closed minded. But whatever floats your boat!
My harbor freight bar doesnt bind, there is nothing to bind on it. I spend maybe $80 on it and another $100 for the adapters to connect to my bumper. Other than ease of operation, I see no benefit to shelling out a ton of money for a blue ox.
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:51 PM   #26
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I do appreciate the replies. I've really only looked up CA law but I always check laws before I travel somewhere. CA doesnt require brakes on TOADs.

The accident report is the kind of stuff I was curious about. A couple of the websites I found had pictures of RV accidents with TOADs, but the caption under the pics all said "not caused by lack of braking system." I know lack of a braking system is but used as a PCF on accident reports but I could see it being in the narrative as an additional factor.

I think that anytime you are towing you should be giving enough room and time to stop without having to rely in additional braking. As I'm sure you well know, 99% of accidents are completely avoidable. I bet most of the accidents while towing were either due to speed or following too closely. While a braking system will help with those, so will slowing down and leaving more room.
And paying attention and anticipating the bone-head moves of those around you. All that stuff they taught you in real Drivers Ed Defensive Driving back in the day. Stuff that motorcyclists either learn quickly or become a statistic.

It all applies.
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:56 PM   #27
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And paying attention and anticipating the bone-head moves of those around you. All that stuff they taught you in real Drivers Ed Defensive Driving back in the day. Stuff that motorcyclists either learn quickly or become a statistic.

It all applies.
Very true. I am a motorcycle rider also. Ride like everyone is out to get you!
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:02 PM   #28
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I'll only speak to tow bars. I have been using the same towbar, a Blue Ox Adventurer since 2000. I have used it on 4 or 5 toads. There is nothing to it and requires almost no maintenance. When I moved up to a class a, I thought about getting one of those fancy aluminum telescoping jobbers, but upon reading forums decided my old tow bar was just fine.
I like simple. If it works there is no reason to complicate things. Maybe when I'm older and not as agile I'll buy a fancy bar, who knows?
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Old 07-17-2020, 01:37 AM   #29
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I like simple. If it works there is no reason to complicate things. Maybe when I'm older and not as agile I'll buy a fancy bar, who knows?
Currently...
All Bars that donít serve government approved food must close in CA due to China Virus. Per dictator Gavin Newsom

Iím older and less agile & have no interest in building a business in CA.

The only chance anyone has of making a business prosper in CA is by practicing illegal business methods.
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Old 07-17-2020, 11:58 AM   #30
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Very true. I am a motorcycle rider also. Ride like everyone is out to get you!
So are you going to be bringing along your bike?
What is it, and how about some pictures?
(Rode for 45 years, and miss it every day now... )
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:42 PM   #31
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Currently...
All Bars that donít serve government approved food must close in CA due to China Virus. Per dictator Gavin Newsom

Iím older and less agile & have no interest in building a business in CA.

The only chance anyone has of making a business prosper in CA is by practicing illegal business methods.
Wow! You do know the topic is fancy TOW bars? I think you made a left turn at Albuquerque.

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Old 07-21-2020, 02:52 AM   #32
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My harbor freight bar doesnt bind, there is nothing to bind on it. I spend maybe $80 on it and another $100 for the adapters to connect to my bumper. Other than ease of operation, I see no benefit to shelling out a ton of money for a blue ox.


Isnít that a bit like eschewing indoor plumbing because itís complicated and itís only virtue is convenience?
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:08 AM   #33
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So are you going to be bringing along your bike?
What is it, and how about some pictures?
(Rode for 45 years, and miss it every day now... )
I havent brought the bike while RVing yet. Most of my RV trips are out to the desert or mountains for off roading. Hence the TOAD.

I have a 2012 HD Road Glide Custom and a 2014 HD Ultra Limited
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:11 AM   #34
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Isnít that a bit like eschewing indoor plumbing because itís complicated and itís only virtue is convenience?
Not really. That's like saying toss out the entire bar and use rope or chain.

A better comparison would be whether you get the standard toilet and sink fixtures (cheap tow bar), or spend extra for the low flush toilet with bidet, and touchless faucet (expensive blue ox tow bar).
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Old 07-21-2020, 04:39 AM   #35
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IMHO, without experience BTW, if the cheap tow bar works along with the required safety devices such as auxiliary brakes, breakaway system, lights & won't damage the TV or toad by using it, then buy what you want, it's your rig, your $$ & if something unforseen happens it's your responsibility.
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Old 07-21-2020, 05:16 AM   #36
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IMHO, without experience BTW, if the cheap tow bar works along with the required safety devices such as auxiliary brakes, breakaway system, lights & won't damage the TV or toad by using it, then buy what you want, it's your rig, your $$ & if something unforseen happens it's your responsibility.
I completely agree and it's part of the point I'm trying to make. A lot of new RVers ask questions and without fail the majority of replies say you have to get an expensive tow bar and need brakes to be legal. Neither are true.
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Old 07-21-2020, 04:45 PM   #37
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I completely agree and it's part of the point I'm trying to make. A lot of new RVers ask questions and without fail the majority of replies say you have to get an expensive tow bar and need brakes to be legal. Neither are true.


Point taken. Obviously there are lots of ways of doing most anything. But many RVers are older, well heeled and would prefer easy and comfortable to cheap and more difficult. And many have wisdom to know that better braking always is to be preferred. Minimum legal doesnít meet everyoneís standards. Glad it works for you.
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Old 07-22-2020, 05:16 AM   #38
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I'm in the process of setting up flat towing my oldie 2001 Jeep Wrangler. DIY is not for the feint of heart. I found a new in box Blue Ox Alpha towbar on Craigslist for $300. Baseplate from eTrailer, Invisibrake from Amazon, tail light wiring kit with diodes, relay and connectors. Total: $1,800
Looks like the real grunt work is minor drilling for the baseplate. Most of the rest is basic mechanical & 12v electrical wiring. I went with the Invisibrake because I wanted a permanent brake... no fuss after initial install and calibration. Just hook up and go. BUT... install can be a complicated PIA.
If anyone's interested, I will update here with pics as I make progress...
P.S. A deputy sheriff friend told me if you are stopped and found to be running illegal, you are grounded AND get a ticket. We travel through many states, so keeping track of braking laws can be a nightmare. I sure wouldn't want to leave the toad abandoned along the road!
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Old 07-22-2020, 04:48 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
I'm in the process of setting up flat towing my oldie 2001 Jeep Wrangler. DIY is not for the feint of heart. I found a new in box Blue Ox Alpha towbar on Craigslist for $300. Baseplate from eTrailer, Invisibrake from Amazon, tail light wiring kit with diodes, relay and connectors. Total: $1,800
Looks like the real grunt work is minor drilling for the baseplate. Most of the rest is basic mechanical & 12v electrical wiring. I went with the Invisibrake because I wanted a permanent brake... no fuss after initial install and calibration. Just hook up and go. BUT... install can be a complicated PIA.
If anyone's interested, I will update here with pics as I make progress...
P.S. A deputy sheriff friend told me if you are stopped and found to be running illegal, you are grounded AND get a ticket. We travel through many states, so keeping track of braking laws can be a nightmare. I sure wouldn't want to leave the toad abandoned along the road!


I did the same thing myself to tow my 2004 LJ. I found my Ascent tow bar in the Amazon Warehouse and use the Stay In Play permanent braking system on the Jeep. Just flip a switch any youíre good to go. I enjoyed the installations and found it all to be straightforward. I added a wireless repeater to the Jeepís brake light switch so that I could see exactly when my Jeep was applying its brakes. Works a treat in about 3000 miles so far.
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Old 07-22-2020, 05:09 PM   #40
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I havent brought the bike while RVing yet. Most of my RV trips are out to the desert or mountains for off roading. Hence the TOAD.

I have a 2012 HD Road Glide Custom and a 2014 HD Ultra Limited
VERY nice!!
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