|
|
07-16-2020, 06:56 PM
|
#21
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 24HE Freedom Elite
State: California
Posts: 69
THOR #19344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman
I'm sorry: I should have specified that I I was speaking only about brakes and braking systems.
Most of the States (At least the ones with lawmakers that can actually write an effective law ...); treat a Toad exactly as they treat a trailer.
If it's hooked-up to you, and your pulling it: there's no difference.
To be fair: I am NOT a Lawyer.
But I do sell insurance. I've seen the accident reports... You don't want to get pushed into a situation that is going to hurt you or your Family.
|
I do appreciate the replies. I've really only looked up CA law but I always check laws before I travel somewhere. CA doesnt require brakes on TOADs.
The accident report is the kind of stuff I was curious about. A couple of the websites I found had pictures of RV accidents with TOADs, but the caption under the pics all said "not caused by lack of braking system." I know lack of a braking system is but used as a PCF on accident reports but I could see it being in the narrative as an additional factor.
I think that anytime you are towing you should be giving enough room and time to stop without having to rely in additional braking. As I'm sure you well know, 99% of accidents are completely avoidable. I bet most of the accidents while towing were either due to speed or following too closely. While a braking system will help with those, so will slowing down and leaving more room.
__________________
|
|
|
07-16-2020, 07:01 PM
|
#22
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 24HE Freedom Elite
State: California
Posts: 69
THOR #19344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete'sMH
An interesting thread. My personal opinion (which nobody asked for!) is that anyone towing a car behind a motorhome is foolish if they don’t use a braking system. Brakes on our coaches are marginal to begin with and adding the momentum of a ton or more pushing on the back can only hurt performance in an emergency. Likewise having four more tires bleeding off speed can only help. I had a deer jump out in front of me and I was thankful for every ounce of stopping power I had
I agree with you here for the most part. A braking system can increase safety and be helpful. Although in most cases slower speeds and more following distance can accomplish the same. A deer is an entirely different story even with additional brakes.
I towed a car years ago with a simple steel rigid A- frame tow bar. It worked fine but the newer, light weight non-binding bars is so much worth the added cost that I can’t even find the words. I bought a new Blue Ox Ascent from the Amazon warehouse for under $700 and its wonderful. Using a cheap bar and no brakes is like choosing to drive an old car with no ABS or power steering because it’s “not needed”. Certainly true but for most of us somewhat closed minded. But whatever floats your boat!
|
My harbor freight bar doesnt bind, there is nothing to bind on it. I spend maybe $80 on it and another $100 for the adapters to connect to my bumper. Other than ease of operation, I see no benefit to shelling out a ton of money for a blue ox.
__________________
|
|
|
07-16-2020, 07:14 PM
|
#23
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 29M
State: Texas
Posts: 2,672
THOR #11781
|
I'll only speak to tow bars. I have been using the same towbar, a Blue Ox Adventurer since 2000. I have used it on 4 or 5 toads. There is nothing to it and requires almost no maintenance. When I moved up to a class a, I thought about getting one of those fancy aluminum telescoping jobbers, but upon reading forums decided my old tow bar was just fine.
__________________
Lt Keefer
2018 Hurricane 29M
CHF, Saf-T-Plus, SumoSprings
|
|
|
07-16-2020, 07:17 PM
|
#24
|
I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley97
...I think that anytime you are towing you should be giving enough room and time to stop without having to rely in additional braking. As I'm sure you well know, 99% of accidents are completely avoidable. I bet most of the accidents while towing were either due to speed or following too closely. While a braking system will help with those, so will slowing down and leaving more room.
|
Amen...
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
|
|
|
07-16-2020, 07:39 PM
|
#25
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 24HE Freedom Elite
State: California
Posts: 69
THOR #19344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete'sMH
An interesting thread. My personal opinion (which nobody asked for!) is that anyone towing a car behind a motorhome is foolish if they don’t use a braking system. Brakes on our coaches are marginal to begin with and adding the momentum of a ton or more pushing on the back can only hurt performance in an emergency. Likewise having four more tires bleeding off speed can only help. I had a deer jump out in front of me and I was thankful for every ounce of stopping power I had
I agree with you here for the most part. A braking system can increase safety and be helpful. Although in most cases slower speeds and more following distance can accomplish the same. A deer is an entirely different story even with additional brakes.
I towed a car years ago with a simple steel rigid A- frame tow bar. It worked fine but the newer, light weight non-binding bars is so much worth the added cost that I can’t even find the words. I bought a new Blue Ox Ascent from the Amazon warehouse for under $700 and its wonderful. Using a cheap bar and no brakes is like choosing to drive an old car with no ABS or power steering because it’s “not needed”. Certainly true but for most of us somewhat closed minded. But whatever floats your boat!
|
My harbor freight bar doesnt bind, there is nothing to bind on it. I spend maybe $80 on it and another $100 for the adapters to connect to my bumper. Other than ease of operation, I see no benefit to shelling out a ton of money for a blue ox.
__________________
|
|
|
07-16-2020, 07:51 PM
|
#26
|
Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,119
THOR #7035
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley97
I do appreciate the replies. I've really only looked up CA law but I always check laws before I travel somewhere. CA doesnt require brakes on TOADs.
The accident report is the kind of stuff I was curious about. A couple of the websites I found had pictures of RV accidents with TOADs, but the caption under the pics all said "not caused by lack of braking system." I know lack of a braking system is but used as a PCF on accident reports but I could see it being in the narrative as an additional factor.
I think that anytime you are towing you should be giving enough room and time to stop without having to rely in additional braking. As I'm sure you well know, 99% of accidents are completely avoidable. I bet most of the accidents while towing were either due to speed or following too closely. While a braking system will help with those, so will slowing down and leaving more room.
|
And paying attention and anticipating the bone-head moves of those around you. All that stuff they taught you in real Drivers Ed Defensive Driving back in the day. Stuff that motorcyclists either learn quickly or become a statistic.
It all applies.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
|
|
|
07-16-2020, 07:56 PM
|
#27
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 24HE Freedom Elite
State: California
Posts: 69
THOR #19344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27
And paying attention and anticipating the bone-head moves of those around you. All that stuff they taught you in real Drivers Ed Defensive Driving back in the day. Stuff that motorcyclists either learn quickly or become a statistic.
It all applies.
|
Very true. I am a motorcycle rider also. Ride like everyone is out to get you!
__________________
|
|
|
07-16-2020, 08:02 PM
|
#28
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 24HE Freedom Elite
State: California
Posts: 69
THOR #19344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt Keefer
I'll only speak to tow bars. I have been using the same towbar, a Blue Ox Adventurer since 2000. I have used it on 4 or 5 toads. There is nothing to it and requires almost no maintenance. When I moved up to a class a, I thought about getting one of those fancy aluminum telescoping jobbers, but upon reading forums decided my old tow bar was just fine.
|
I like simple. If it works there is no reason to complicate things. Maybe when I'm older and not as agile I'll buy a fancy bar, who knows?
__________________
|
|
|
07-17-2020, 01:37 AM
|
#29
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: '17-Vegas 24.1
State: California
Posts: 2,222
THOR #13362
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley97
I like simple. If it works there is no reason to complicate things. Maybe when I'm older and not as agile I'll buy a fancy bar, who knows?
|
Currently...
All Bars that don’t serve government approved food must close in CA due to China Virus. Per dictator Gavin Newsom
I’m older and less agile & have no interest in building a business in CA.
The only chance anyone has of making a business prosper in CA is by practicing illegal business methods.
__________________
'17 Vegas 24.1
Fallbrook, CA
|
|
|
07-17-2020, 11:58 AM
|
#30
|
I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley97
Very true. I am a motorcycle rider also. Ride like everyone is out to get you!
|
So are you going to be bringing along your bike?
What is it, and how about some pictures?
(Rode for 45 years, and miss it every day now... )
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
|
|
|
07-17-2020, 12:42 PM
|
#31
|
Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,119
THOR #7035
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorbob1
Currently...
All Bars that don’t serve government approved food must close in CA due to China Virus. Per dictator Gavin Newsom
I’m older and less agile & have no interest in building a business in CA.
The only chance anyone has of making a business prosper in CA is by practicing illegal business methods.
|
Wow! You do know the topic is fancy TOW bars? I think you made a left turn at Albuquerque.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
|
|
|
07-21-2020, 02:52 AM
|
#32
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Forest River Forester 235
State: Indiana
Posts: 4,883
THOR #6826
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley97
My harbor freight bar doesnt bind, there is nothing to bind on it. I spend maybe $80 on it and another $100 for the adapters to connect to my bumper. Other than ease of operation, I see no benefit to shelling out a ton of money for a blue ox.
|
Isn’t that a bit like eschewing indoor plumbing because it’s complicated and it’s only virtue is convenience?
__________________
|
|
|
07-21-2020, 03:08 AM
|
#33
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 24HE Freedom Elite
State: California
Posts: 69
THOR #19344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman
So are you going to be bringing along your bike?
What is it, and how about some pictures?
(Rode for 45 years, and miss it every day now... )
|
I havent brought the bike while RVing yet. Most of my RV trips are out to the desert or mountains for off roading. Hence the TOAD.
I have a 2012 HD Road Glide Custom and a 2014 HD Ultra Limited
__________________
|
|
|
07-21-2020, 03:11 AM
|
#34
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 24HE Freedom Elite
State: California
Posts: 69
THOR #19344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete'sMH
Isn’t that a bit like eschewing indoor plumbing because it’s complicated and it’s only virtue is convenience?
|
Not really. That's like saying toss out the entire bar and use rope or chain.
A better comparison would be whether you get the standard toilet and sink fixtures (cheap tow bar), or spend extra for the low flush toilet with bidet, and touchless faucet (expensive blue ox tow bar).
__________________
|
|
|
07-21-2020, 04:39 AM
|
#35
|
Senior Member
Brand: Redwood
Model: 36FB
State: Arizona
Posts: 1,766
THOR #3610
|
IMHO, without experience BTW, if the cheap tow bar works along with the required safety devices such as auxiliary brakes, breakaway system, lights & won't damage the TV or toad by using it, then buy what you want, it's your rig, your $$ & if something unforseen happens it's your responsibility.
__________________
Fulltimed 10+ years
Sold '13 Thor Redwood 36 FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
|
|
|
07-21-2020, 05:16 AM
|
#36
|
Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 24HE Freedom Elite
State: California
Posts: 69
THOR #19344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans
IMHO, without experience BTW, if the cheap tow bar works along with the required safety devices such as auxiliary brakes, breakaway system, lights & won't damage the TV or toad by using it, then buy what you want, it's your rig, your $$ & if something unforseen happens it's your responsibility.
|
I completely agree and it's part of the point I'm trying to make. A lot of new RVers ask questions and without fail the majority of replies say you have to get an expensive tow bar and need brakes to be legal. Neither are true.
__________________
|
|
|
07-21-2020, 04:45 PM
|
#37
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Forest River Forester 235
State: Indiana
Posts: 4,883
THOR #6826
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley97
I completely agree and it's part of the point I'm trying to make. A lot of new RVers ask questions and without fail the majority of replies say you have to get an expensive tow bar and need brakes to be legal. Neither are true.
|
Point taken. Obviously there are lots of ways of doing most anything. But many RVers are older, well heeled and would prefer easy and comfortable to cheap and more difficult. And many have wisdom to know that better braking always is to be preferred. Minimum legal doesn’t meet everyone’s standards. Glad it works for you.
__________________
|
|
|
07-22-2020, 05:16 AM
|
#38
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Chateau 24F
State: Ohio
Posts: 4,087
THOR #16721
|
I'm in the process of setting up flat towing my oldie 2001 Jeep Wrangler. DIY is not for the feint of heart. I found a new in box Blue Ox Alpha towbar on Craigslist for $300. Baseplate from eTrailer, Invisibrake from Amazon, tail light wiring kit with diodes, relay and connectors. Total: $1,800
Looks like the real grunt work is minor drilling for the baseplate. Most of the rest is basic mechanical & 12v electrical wiring. I went with the Invisibrake because I wanted a permanent brake... no fuss after initial install and calibration. Just hook up and go. BUT... install can be a complicated PIA.
If anyone's interested, I will update here with pics as I make progress...
P.S. A deputy sheriff friend told me if you are stopped and found to be running illegal, you are grounded AND get a ticket. We travel through many states, so keeping track of braking laws can be a nightmare. I sure wouldn't want to leave the toad abandoned along the road!
__________________
|
|
|
07-22-2020, 04:48 PM
|
#39
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Forest River Forester 235
State: Indiana
Posts: 4,883
THOR #6826
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad
I'm in the process of setting up flat towing my oldie 2001 Jeep Wrangler. DIY is not for the feint of heart. I found a new in box Blue Ox Alpha towbar on Craigslist for $300. Baseplate from eTrailer, Invisibrake from Amazon, tail light wiring kit with diodes, relay and connectors. Total: $1,800
Looks like the real grunt work is minor drilling for the baseplate. Most of the rest is basic mechanical & 12v electrical wiring. I went with the Invisibrake because I wanted a permanent brake... no fuss after initial install and calibration. Just hook up and go. BUT... install can be a complicated PIA.
If anyone's interested, I will update here with pics as I make progress...
P.S. A deputy sheriff friend told me if you are stopped and found to be running illegal, you are grounded AND get a ticket. We travel through many states, so keeping track of braking laws can be a nightmare. I sure wouldn't want to leave the toad abandoned along the road!
|
I did the same thing myself to tow my 2004 LJ. I found my Ascent tow bar in the Amazon Warehouse and use the Stay In Play permanent braking system on the Jeep. Just flip a switch any you’re good to go. I enjoyed the installations and found it all to be straightforward. I added a wireless repeater to the Jeep’s brake light switch so that I could see exactly when my Jeep was applying its brakes. Works a treat in about 3000 miles so far.
__________________
|
|
|
07-22-2020, 05:09 PM
|
#40
|
I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley97
I havent brought the bike while RVing yet. Most of my RV trips are out to the desert or mountains for off roading. Hence the TOAD.
I have a 2012 HD Road Glide Custom and a 2014 HD Ultra Limited
|
VERY nice!!
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|