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Old 07-18-2019, 10:39 PM   #21
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and, yes, you can even tow many vehicles with a tow dolly, if you wish to start with something a little easier than the cost of purchasing and installing base plates and tow bars...
you can even give it a try simply by renting a uhaul tow dolly for a few days, or trips, and see if that's a direction you want to go...then you'll know more about tow dollies in order to make the best purchase decision for the long term.
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:52 PM   #22
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I am now looking for a car that is under 3500 lbs that I can flat tow. Any suggestion?

Or a car rental company that doesn’t perfume their cars.

Kerry
2700 Lbs for a Chevy Sonic and you don't have to worry about the transmission accidentally shifting into gear and blowing up the engine.

Probably a few hundred lbs more for a Chevy Cruz.
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:57 PM   #23
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Update

Thank you! There are a lot of good ideas I will need to mull over.

The owner of PPL said she uses 2000 lb to estimate weight of stuff and people.

Water weighs 8.34 lb or 8/gallon. “A pint is a lb the world round.” 40 gallons is 320 lbs.

Kerry
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:12 AM   #24
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Kerry,
The first thing you should do is get your coach weighed, fully loaded with everything full gas, water, propane, food, occupants, toys, tools, etc., so you can calculate how much your towed vehicle can weigh. Our 2015 27K (18K chassis/23K max) weighs about 16200 lbs fully loaded which means we should be able to tow 6800# without exceeding the 23000#, unfortunately the Reese hitch on our coach is only rated at 5000#. Our 27K handles towing our 4200# Captiva very well. Safe travels.
John
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:05 AM   #25
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Thanks!

I will try and find a weigh station near us.

Kerry
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:28 AM   #26
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Just returned from a trip up north. DW loaded up the coach taking many things for kids and grand kids. Max weight for my Windsport 29m 23,000 our weight with toad was 27,650. Had no problem taking off or stopping, tow dolly does have surge brakes and the over weight trip was only one way 900 miles. Comming back was a light lighter.
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:14 PM   #27
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I don't see the Engineering or logic as to why a 6.8L Triton® V10 engine that is pulling a larger coach (heavier i.e. 34R / 35M) that has gross vehicle rating that is 4,000 pounds heavier be allowed to pull 26,000 Gross Combined weight?

If the 6.8L Triton® V10 can safely be rated to pull 26,000 for coach; why is it restricted to 23,000 for 27B / 29M with same engine? Don't try to tell me that those little push / tow tractors - tugs at the airports are limited in pull if they have same engine with only factor being the size of the tug.
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:18 PM   #28
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Just returned from a trip up north. DW loaded up the coach taking many things for kids and grand kids. Max weight for my Windsport 29m 23,000 our weight with toad was 27,650. Had no problem taking off or stopping, tow dolly does have surge brakes and the over weight trip was only one way 900 miles. Comming back was a light lighter.
Is it illegal to have pulled 27,650? I mean could the weight police have stopped you and made you abandoned all of the goodies before finish the trip up North?

How much do those scales (weighs) costs? Also is it risky to go to any of those scales at Truck stops etc. and then they see you are overweight do they have to report you?
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:31 PM   #29
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I don't see the Engineering or logic as to why a 6.8L Triton® V10 engine that is pulling a larger coach (heavier i.e. 34R / 35M) that has gross vehicle rating that is 4,000 pounds heavier be allowed to pull 26,000 Gross Combined weight?

If the 6.8L Triton® V10 can safely be rated to pull 26,000 for coach; why is it restricted to 23,000 for 27B / 29M with same engine? Don't try to tell me that those little push / tow tractors - tugs at the airports are limited in pull if they have same engine with only factor being the size of the tug.
Because it's not just about the engine and not just about pulling. You have to engineer the transmission, rear end, suspension and frame. That's why there are F53 chassis with different GVWR as well, 16K through 26K and maybe higher.
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:54 PM   #30
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Because it's not just about the engine and not just about pulling. You have to engineer the transmission, rear end, suspension and frame. That's why there are F53 chassis with different GVWR as well, 16K through 26K and maybe higher.
I guess I naively thought that all F53 chassis from Ford came with the same Engine, transmissions, rear end, suspensions, axles frame etc.? The RV Mfg just just built little houses on top of them ( let some tell.... "with tape", but I digress )


I really want to know what is happening here as I have a boat that when loaded up is right at 5,000 lbs. So 18,000 pounds and 23,000 combined weight means not only that I can't stock beer in the refrigerator, but my wife and I can't ride in RV on our fishing trip.

When I saw that 8,000 hitch ratings, I thought I was free and clear over other Mfgs with 5,000 hitch ratings. I like the rating of 8,000 and now know it is a good thing by Thor, but it defies logic to me that I can't pull a 24' boat loaded with gas and water in RV that is also full of gas, water, propane, waste tanks etc, and up to to 4 - 6 people.

Let me put this in perspective as regular Joe Schmuck guy that don't own RV. I have Lincoln Navigator that for years loaded 6 people into truck, tents, 3500 KW generator, camping gear, chairs etc. and pull a fully loaded boat, and never had an issue or question. I have a 5.4 L V8. The F53 we are talking 6.8L and V10.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:52 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Diana&Kerry View Post
I am now looking for a car that is under 3500 lbs that I can flat tow. Any suggestion?

Or a car rental company that doesn’t perfume their cars.

Kerry
Have you considered investigating a transmission mod such as a tranny pump or Demco trans disconnect for your current car? If you can do one of those, you might be able to keep the MKS for flat towing and disregard the 400-500 lb weight of a dolly.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:06 PM   #32
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I guess I naively thought that all F53 chassis from Ford came with the same Engine, transmissions, rear end, suspensions, axles frame etc.? The RV Mfg just just built little houses on top of them ( let some tell.... "with tape", but I digress )


I really want to know what is happening here as I have a boat that when loaded up is right at 5,000 lbs. So 18,000 pounds and 23,000 combined weight means not only that I can't stock beer in the refrigerator, but my wife and I can't ride in RV on our fishing trip.

When I saw that 8,000 hitch ratings, I thought I was free and clear over other Mfgs with 5,000 hitch ratings. I like the rating of 8,000 and now know it is a good thing by Thor, but it defies logic to me that I can't pull a 24' boat loaded with gas and water in RV that is also full of gas, water, propane, waste tanks etc, and up to to 4 - 6 people.

Let me put this in perspective as regular Joe Schmuck guy that don't own RV. I have Lincoln Navigator that for years loaded 6 people into truck, tents, 3500 KW generator, camping gear, chairs etc. and pull a fully loaded boat, and never had an issue or question. I have a 5.4 L V8. The F53 we are talking 6.8L and V10.
Your math isn't fully computing.

If you have a F53 chassis with an 18K GVWR and 23K CVWR there is a difference of 5K. So if you had your RV fully loaded up to 18K then you could only pull a 5K trailer.

But if you only load the RV to 16K then you can pull a 7K trailer if you have the 8K rated hitch.

So your comment "means not only that I can't stock beer in the refrigerator, but my wife and I can't ride in RV on our fishing trip" is inaccurate in that you can load that stuff and a lot more before your RV will be at its GVWR.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:44 AM   #33
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Your math isn't fully computing.

If you have a F53 chassis with an 18K GVWR and 23K CVWR there is a difference of 5K. So if you had your RV fully loaded up to 18K then you could only pull a 5K trailer.

But if you only load the RV to 16K then you can pull a 7K trailer if you have the 8K rated hitch.

So your comment "means not only that I can't stock beer in the refrigerator, but my wife and I can't ride in RV on our fishing trip" is inaccurate in that you can load that stuff and a lot more before your RV will be at its GVWR.

I think the math is right, I may not understand something or you may not have followed what I meant?

I will try again. Per Thor one RV I am looking at is is rated at Gross Vehicle Weight of 18,000 lbs. So if I follow, that means the weight of RV itself before I start to load it it up with people or other stuff? Am I right?, if so that iis not math just the number I started with with.

I then proceeded to say, I have 24 ft boat. It has trailer, 50 gallons of gas and 10 gallon water tank which normally always full. With gear; that boat / trailer is right at 5,000 pounds.

So to me; I get 18,000 + 5,000 which is 23,000 lbs and the the Maximum Combined Weight. Thus my statement, no room to add beer or me and my wife without exceeding 23,000. For a V10 6.8 Triton regardless of transmission etc, that sound weak to me.

I just checked my Navigator's manual because I may have been towing over the limit all of these years without knowing, but I pull that boat/trailer with my Navigator with as many as 6 or 7 people in the truck at 70 - 75 mph with no issues whatsoever.

I do know this much, my Navigator hitch is rated at 6,000 lbs and will pull 9,200 with Weight distributor as I have tow package. I have never bothered to look at Combined Max gross weight that I reading and learning for these RV's.

But per Lincoln manual for Navigator...
Maximum GCWR is 15000 lbs / 6803 kg Trailer weight range 0 - 9000 lbs 94082 kg)

The GVWR is 7500 lbs. That means I have another 7,500 lbs for cargo / trailer. since boat / trailer fully loaded is 5,000 lbs, that leaves me 2,500 lbs for me my wife and plenty of beer. So all of this to say if I follow, I can safely tow my boat fully loaded with all of the legal passengers I wish, plus beer, and not exceed the the GCVW. But if I try to pull the same boat with RV that weighs 18,000, no room for cooler beer with ice to be legal, let alone me, my wife or any passengers.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:11 AM   #34
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I think the math is right, I may not understand something or you may not have followed what I meant?

I will try again. Per Thor one RV I am looking at is is rated at Gross Vehicle Weight of 18,000 lbs. So if I follow, that means the weight of RV itself before I start to load it it up with people or other stuff? Am I right?, if so that iis not math just the number I started with with.

I then proceeded to say, I have 24 ft boat. It has trailer, 50 gallons of gas and 10 gallon water tank which normally always full. With gear; that boat / trailer is right at 5,000 pounds.

So to me; I get 18,000 + 5,000 which is 23,000 lbs and the the Maximum Combined Weight. Thus my statement, no room to add beer or me and my wife without exceeding 23,000. For a V10 6.8 Triton regardless of transmission etc, that sound weak to me.
....

GVWR - in your case 18,000 pounds - is the max fully loaded weight of the RV... not the empty ‘curb weight’...
So depending on what you add to the RV, you may well be able to tow over 5000 lbs...

I found my weight varied a lot based on trip... Short trips (duration) I ran significantly lighter than ‘loaded for bear’ 3+ month snowbird trips... More tools and stuff for the longer drive/time away had me right at the max.

Load your rig as you will for travel - fuel, water, propane, people, stuff - and run it across a CAT scale at truck stop. Then you will know what you have to work with.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:10 AM   #35
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Here is how I understand GVWR & GCWR.
The GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is the Maximum allowable weight the vehicle can safely haul. That is NOT the weight of the vehicle before it is loaded. The GVWR is the total of ALL water, fuels, people, food, clothing, live bait, beer, etc. PLUS and this is a big PLUS the tongue weight of your trailer. Our Ace 27.2 the GVWR is 16000 pounds. Fully loaded with all our stuff, fuel, propane, water, myself and the Mrs. we top out at close to 16000, within the safe margin of the Gross Vehicle Weight. Now my GCWR or Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating is the weight of all the stuff in the motor home PLUS the weight of the towed vehicle. Our GCWR for the ACE 27.2 is 23000 lbs. Our Cherokee Trail Hawk weighs in at a dry curb weight of 4200 lets call it 4500 lbs with gas and a couple sundries in the car. So fully loaded weight GCWR @ 15700 + the Cherokee at 4500 Equals a Gross Combined Weight of 20,200 lbs leaving us 2800 lbs under the Gross Combined Weight of my ACE. And that's all I gotta say about that! Hope that helps. Mark
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:33 AM   #36
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Here is how I understand GVWR & GCWR.
The GVWR (Gross Vehicle Wait Rating) is the Maximum allowable weight the vehicle can safely haul. That is NOT the weight of the vehicle before it is loaded. The GVWR is the total of ALL water, fuels, people, food, clothing, live bait, beer, etc. PLUS and this is a big PLUS the tongue weight of your trailer. Our Ace 27.2 the GVWR is 16000 pounds. Fully loaded with all our stuff, fuel, propane, water, myself and the Mrs. we top out at close to 16000, within the safe margin of the Gross Vehicle Weight. Now my GCWR or Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating is the weight of all the stuff in the motor home PLUS the weight of the towed vehicle. Our GCWR for the ACE 27.2 is 23000 lbs. Our Cherokee Trail Hawk weighs in at a dry curb weight of 4200 lets call it 4500 lbs with gas and a couple sundries in the car. So fully loaded weight GCWR @ 15700 + the Cherokee at 4500 Equals a Gross Combined Weight of 20,200 lbs leaving us 2800 lbs under the Gross Combined Weight of my ACE. And that's all I gotta say about that! Hope that helps. Mark
I think you are correct. to help others understand what is your starting dry curb weight?
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:55 AM   #37
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Towing

Wow!

I don’t think the weight police will come after us if we are over on the scales. Most weigh station operators won’t know or care. They are after the trucker who said he was hauling 35,000 lb and was hauling 50,000 lb. (We have had to off load over weight trucks.) Before anyone comments, 99.99% of the truckers are carrying the correct loads. From another blog, it looks like they charge between $10 to $20 to weigh the rig.

I think the weight limit has to do with design, which includes the chassis, structure, transmission, engine, and the hitch. I agree with whoever commented that why one rv max weight is 23,000, while another is 26,000 lb, and it is the same chassis, transmission, and engine. A civil and a mechanical engineers may be able to explain it better. The question is how much over design did the engineers build into the RV.

Kerry
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:18 AM   #38
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I think the math is right, I may not understand something or you may not have followed what I meant?

I will try again. Per Thor one RV I am looking at is is rated at Gross Vehicle Weight of 18,000 lbs. So if I follow, that means the weight of RV itself before I start to load it it up with people or other stuff? Am I right?.

No, you have a major misconception of what GROSS Vehicle Weight RATING is.

You believe it to be empty curb weight or unloaded weight. GMC and MJC62 should have set you straight.
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:32 AM   #39
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I think you are correct. to help others understand what is your starting dry curb weight?
You know I never checked it before it was loaded. The Ace had full propane, full fuel, 1/2 tank of fresh water, food, clothing, gas grill and various sundries in it, then we hooked up the Cherokee took off on weekend excursion. On the way we drove over to the local truck stop to weigh in. Ace was just over 15700 and the Cherokee Trailhawk was 4325.
The yellow door sticker says we can add 1233 lbs of people and cargo. So if that is the recommended loading subtract it from 16000 and you get curb weight of 14767.
If you start with a full load of water, 56 gallons at 465 lbs and 88 lbs for a full load of propane that doesn't leave a lot of room for peeps, food and clothes. I opt to haul a half tank of water gives me more room for "stuff".
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:40 AM   #40
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Wow!

I don’t think the weight police will come after us if we are over on the scales. Most weigh station operators won’t know or care. They are after the trucker who said he was hauling 35,000 lb and was hauling 50,000 lb. (We have had to off load over weight trucks.) Before anyone comments, 99.99% of the truckers are carrying the correct loads. From another blog, it looks like they charge between $10 to $20 to weigh the rig.

I think the weight limit has to do with design, which includes the chassis, structure, transmission, engine, and the hitch. I agree with whoever commented that why one rv max weight is 23,000, while another is 26,000 lb, and it is the same chassis, transmission, and engine. A civil and a mechanical engineers may be able to explain it better. The question is how much over design did the engineers build into the RV.

Kerry
You are correct the "weight Police" won't come after you for being a few hundred pounds overweight in a an RV. The problem, God forbid, comes in if you are involved in an accident. The insurance companies will say it was your fault for driving an unsafely loaded vehicle.
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