Weighed the Tow Vehicle Today: Should I stop the Project over 420 lbs?

[Lt Keefer]

If you are going to replace the hitch, add the baseplate and supplemental brakes anyway why not load it for your typical travel and go to the local CAT scale? You might be pleasantly surprised but at least you'll know the real numbers. Then all the speculation would end and with solid numbers you could make adjustments to your cargo. I'm not saying it is okay to run over weight but from what I see on the road with bumper pulls, construction trailers, and some fivers you'd not be alone.

[lwmcguire]

500 pounds overweight is akin to one day over the expiration date on food or medication

Do you get up at midnight and toss it in the garbage?

I prefer to use the energy to decide what cut of beef is for dinner.

I do advocate all components of towing to be properly installed and utilized

Under inflation causes geometrically more accidents than a tad overweight ever will

Interesting discussion so far

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

If you are going to replace the hitch, add the baseplate and supplemental brakes anyway why not load it for your typical travel and go to the local CAT scale? You might be pleasantly surprised but at least you'll know the real numbers. Then all the speculation would end and with solid numbers you could make adjustments to your cargo. I'm not saying it is okay to run over weight but from what I see on the road with bumper pulls, construction trailers, and some fivers you'd not be alone.

During this project and planning, I have been to Cat Scale twice. See Cat Scale results in post #33

The Roadmaster Baseplate for my Navigator was the 1st thing ordered. It is here at home, but still confirming who I will it install. Estimates are around $600 labor which seem high to me?

The Hitch came yesterday, I will try U haul to see what they say, or maybe my mobile tech. I am guessing $300 labor?

I decided on the RVi 3 Braking System. I ordered a very nice gently used portable unit only for $300 I intend to buy the brand new breakaway and case for it for RVi directly. For now I am passing on Tablet / Command Center system, but I can buy later brand new for $325 if needed. Some users say they use that tablet. There have also been some issues reported with the tablet ( power, wireless connections etc.); so maybe a new model comes out, or I simply don't need the tablet at all.

Although you probably don't remember, I put premium on your thoughts as it is one of your post years ago that suggested I look at WBGO for my needs that bode very well for us

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

500 pounds overweight is akin to one day over the expiration date on food or medication

Do you get up at midnight and toss it in the garbage?

I prefer to use the energy to decide what cut of beef is for dinner.

I do advocate all components of towing to be properly installed and utilized

Under inflation causes geometrically more accidents than a tad overweight ever will

Interesting discussion so far

The problem is we have Ants (on the Forum), Expired!!! Expired!!! Expired!!!

[MLP]

Well I finally read the entire posting. My conclusion is that we all miss the Duck! Including his cooking reports.

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

During this project and planning, I have been to Cat Scale twice. See Cat Scale results in post #33:

I have been following your post with interest and appreciate your thought process on making your decision. What I was trying to say is if you go thru the installation and get a total weight, coach and dinghy, together on the scale, ready for bear, you may be in a better state than you think. When we got our first motorhome we added up all the parts and pieces of our typical travel setup and thought we were going to be over weight. A trip across the CAT scale down the road from us showed we had over 1,000 pounds to spare. Best wishes for your future endeavors. PS, don't let my wife know, but we should have bought the Winnie!

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by MLP

Well I finally read the entire posting. My conclusion is that we all miss the Duck! Including his cooking reports.

He posted a month ago; and was last on the Forum 4 days ago.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

He posted a month ago; and was last on the Forum 4 days ago.

Well that is encouraging.

It may be the equivalent of saying "Ladies and gentlemen, "The Duck" has returned to the building"

Simply put the Damn Duck brings a character and atmosphere like no other. I have a favorite saying, "When the elephants play... the mice get stepped on". We mice could use a break

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Well that is encouraging.

It may be the equivalent of saying "Ladies and gentlemen, "The Duck" has returned to the building"

Simply put the Damn Duck brings a character and atmosphere like no other. I have a favorite saying, "When the elephants play... the mice get stepped on". We mice could use a break

Ducky may have "taken his meds". I know when I do I sometime wonder where I've been.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Ducky may have "taken his meds". I know when I do I sometime wonder where I've been.

I could be wrong, but I recall Ducky posting a message saying he’d had enough of some of the nonsense and was no longer going to post but would periodically monitor the forum.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

I could be wrong, but I recall Ducky posting a message saying he’d had enough of some of the nonsense and was no longer going to post but would periodically monitor the forum.

I can understand that sentiment completely. I try to stick with relevant posting but sometime find I have drifted off the reservation.

EDIT ADDING. I commented a couple days ago about doing a current weighing with the new toad and load, the Ram 2500 with Rampage lift and HD motorcycle on it, and suspect north of 8K. Well this morning I did that and 9.3K. Not surprised now why mpg went from 9.5 to 7.7 with this load. Thus is life.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by chunker21

I can understand that sentiment completely. I try to stick with relevant posting but sometime find I have drifted off the reservation.

EDIT ADDING. I commented a couple days ago about doing a current weighing with the new toad and load, the Ram 2500 with Rampage lift and HD motorcycle on it, and suspect north of 8K. Well this morning I did that and 9.3K. Not surprised now why mpg went from 9.5 to 7.7 with this load. Thus is life.

It adds up quickly. I am glad now I didn't buy those snap pads that were being discussed a while back. Just more weight especially if a few hundred pounds makes a difference.

I got two different vendors selected to do the base plates and the other the hitch install. Hopefully by will be done by Monday and I can have success stories on those tasks to move forward with next steps.

I got some looming great news with RVi Brake; but I will sit on it until I get confirmation on what is found and what they do.

The Roadmaster Towbar is on order and on the way. It is fair to say I am all in now.

[marine6805]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Using my Cat Scale reweigh option; my wife and I returned to get a new weigh on steer axle, drive axle and the trailer axle. (note: the towed was not hitched or connected via a tow bar) Not sure what impact that has on weight measurement good or bad?)

Upfront condition: Please get past the obvious that a smaller tow vehicle is easier, but focus on my desire to tow my already owned Lincoln Navigator that I recently learned has a specific Flat Tow mode. I did all of the math upfront to see if I could do but I have run into below issue.

My Lincoln specs say curb weight for the Navigator is 5800 lbs. Today according to the Cat Scale reading; I get 6,240 lbs That us 440 lbs more than I anticipated. The only thing added to the Navigator....
1. Full tank of gas (about 24 gallons or 144 lbs)
2. 45 lbs of weight to simulate Roadmaster Base Plate that is on order but not installed
3. 10 lbs of weight to simulate the RVi Brake 3 which is not ordered

The RV is sitting at 17,180 lbs ( it is fully loaded as we need, but we did remove some things we never use). Most relevant cargo is...
1. Full tank of gas
2. 1/3 tank of water
3. My wife and I ( we are both normal size; so going on a diet won't help
4. Gray and Black are empty
5. Spare tire under the bed could be removed (80lbs)
6. Ice maker could be removed (26 lbs)

My GCVW is 23,420 and my GCWR = 23,000

Should I give up this project? I am sure I could drain water, cut back on gas and remove spare to get under 23,000 lbs but is it necessary, or is it even worth it? Also, for kicks, hHow serious is the 420 lbs given supplemental braking?

I have a new hitch on order that I can easily return, but may be stuck with a $485 base plate I purchased from e trailer if I can't go forward?

Note and to be clear: Getting another Tow Vehicle is not an option. I will either configure this Lincoln Navigator to be towed on my existing RV, or just leave everything as is.

. . . .decision is already made.
I failed "Rocket 101", but I can follow the story line in this thread!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by marine6805

. . . .decision is already made.
I failed "Rocket 101", but I can follow the story line in this thread!

Decision was made Post #22. To my knowledge, out of 53 posts only one was a dissenting view and it really was not to stop the project; a suggestion was made to get another tow vehicle. But that was not viable as my quest was NOT to get a toad, rather to learn if it is anyways possible to have the ability to legally and safely tow my already owned Navigator with my RV.

With that said, had I been swamped with with responses of... are you crazy, what the hell are you trying to etc. etc. I would have had enough respect for the pros of this forum and I would NOT have made the investment of $2,343.73 just for parts so far. In a way, maybe, I was looking for a way out, and you guys didn't let me off the hook

[taylor-rob]

Most Smaller to Medium size motor homes will not allow for a lot of extra Weight.. They load them down to within 4000-6000 pounds of allowance...


Regardless of weight , unless you have a diesel you will not like the MPG or the 15 mph up a mountain... The power on your rig will have a hard time pulling 6000lbs of weight...I know I have been there..

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by taylor-rob

Most Smaller to Medium size motor homes will not allow for a lot of extra Weight..

I am allowed 2005# of cargo weight in the RV ( which we don't come to using)

They load them down to within 4000-6000 pounds of allowance...

The current Hitch is rated for 5,000#, I am getting new hitch that is rated for 10,000# ( I only need 6,240#)


Regardless of weight , unless you have a diesel you will not like the MPG or the 15 mph up a mountain... The power on your rig will have a hard time pulling 6000lbs of weight...I know I have been there..

I don't own a diesel and would never buy a diesel anything, just not me. I have rented Diesel Pushers though.

I don't like the mpg today. I don't know if you read the entire the thread, but I couldn't possibly imagine why I would EVER need to tow over a mountain range? I am in Dallas Texas area. If I did have need (maybe Colorado) and was worried, I could just disconnect and let my wife drive the Navigator over the mountain or pass.

To be honest my main concern was around the impact of 420# over GCWR if I ever were to tow that heavy. Based on what my options are, I may only be 100# over GCWR? But the point of the thread was to determine is I should NOT setup for flat tow GIVEN the threat of max condition of being over the suggested Mfg GCWR by 420#. The Pros and Cons are all documented, but at the end of the day you either do it or you don't. Based on responses it is not enough stop the project of making both my RV and Navigator flat ready if ever needed.

[taylor-rob]

Well , You and I are neighbors. I live in Waco TX. I make Regular trips to SoCal but I have a Small Diesel "A" (FRED) and the mountains can be a Killer..
If your staying flat here in Texas the biggest problem is Speed.. Even with a Brake I wouldn't want a 6000lbs SUV three feet from my rear end doing 70MPH...you could give it a try since your already into it.. The Used market for the things you purchased is not so bad..I might be able to hook all of it up and test it with a day trip... if it does not work out, You may be able to return a lot of tow package within thirty days..

Good luck to you. Do what will make you happy and stay safe!!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by taylor-rob

Well , You and I are neighbors. I live in Waco TX. I make Regular trips to SoCal but I have a Small Diesel "A" (FRED) and the mountains can be a Killer..
If your staying flat here in Texas the biggest problem is Speed.. Even with a Brake I wouldn't want a 6000lbs SUV three feet from my rear end doing 70MPH...you could give it a try since your already into it.. The Used market for the things you purchased is not so bad..I might be able to hook all of it up and test it with a day trip... if it does not work out, You may be able to return a lot of tow package within thirty days..

Good luck to you. Do what will make you happy and stay safe!!

I am all in, so no selling. Yes, this is making me happy and I plan to be safe thus this thread.

Just so you know...

#1 My new Navigator comes from Lincoln with a flat tow mode. Why they didn't equip with a OEM base plate and the wiring required for 6 pin connector is mystery. That Heavy duty Trailer/Tow package was $2,000 upgrade, might as well been $2,500.

#2 With what I have learned, I don't like my current hitch anchored to the extension of the F-53 frame by WBGO. I rather my hitch be on the F-53 Chassis frame made by Ford. Having more beef is preferred by me and a goal I would like to have anyway. I have towed cars on U- Haul's Auto Transports a few times with my RV. While under 5,000Lbs; I hope to never get that close to hitch rated capacity again.

No going back for me, I may never need to tow my Navigator on any real trip. I didn't buy it to be a towed in the sense a typical RV owner thinks of a toad. I am just making it tow ready because it was designed to be a towed by Lincoln and I own it. I am beefing of my RV hitch and components just to be safer.

I don't worry about stopping it because the brakes on Navigator is designed for stopping payloads of 7,625#, that is exactly 1,400# more than I will ever have it when being towed. I have new RVi 3 Braking system on the way to stop as supplemental braking.

FWIW, when pulling a Cadillac XT5 on a U haul Auto Transport (Dallas to Houston twice), short of the rear camera; I never knew it was there. I couldn't feel it is what I mean. Never got pushed and it did not impede drivability or gas that I could notice.

Also, who is to say that I may not need a real toad one day? I can rent any tow ready vehicle and already be equipped ready to go. This is from the "Build it and they will come theorem". I have tried to make this clear for those that may not have read the beginning or know the intent of my quest of this thread, but I would NEVER tow my Navigator to California or similar long distance or trip I am simply completing features of my Navigator, upgrading my RV hitch because it legally possible and it is mine

[dkoldman]

I have finished the install of the Roadmaster Baseplate on the Navigator.

I am able to confirm that there was no cutting required on the fascia front bumper covers. A major relief because I did not want my Navigator to look like a toad permanently

You can see one side has the cover on; while the other has cover off. Unless I am towing it, no one will ever know it has a baseplate for flat towing. I spent a lot of time with Roadmaster and e-trailer about this. I was worried that the bars for the safety chains would stick out.

Total Cost Parts & Labor $773.00

[Elite Washington]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I have finished the install of the Roadmaster Baseplate on the Navigator.

I am able to confirm that there was no cutting required on the fascia front bumper covers. A major relief because I did not want my Navigator to look like a toad permanently

You can see one side has the cover on; while the other has cover off. Unless I am towing it, no one will ever know it has a baseplate for flat towing. I spent a lot of time with Roadmaster and e-trailer about this. I was worried that the bars for the safety chains would stick out.

Total Cost $773.00

Looks good nice job on getting that installed.