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-   -   Question ref CHF. (https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f27/question-ref-chf-11966.html)

dterens 05-05-2018 09:01 PM

Question ref CHF.
 
I have changed the front sway bar and can actually see how it should improve body roll. But I am hesitant to do rear fix because it looks like it would accomplish the opposite. The front fix pulls the body down slightly but the rear fix if anything looks like it pushes the body higher. I can see that in both cases the torque on the sway bar might by increased because it changes the geometry. That said though it looks like like the rear fix will actually raise the body in turn increasing the roll. Has anyone done the the CHF on the rear and if so did it help with body roll.

Thanks

16ACE27 05-05-2018 10:09 PM

The CHF does not raise or lower the body. The only time the bar is "sprung" is in a turn, and the torsion just minimizes roll.

dterens 05-05-2018 11:16 PM

Thanks, must be after driving, by doing the fix on front had to raise sway bar above the original location to install bolts. Thanks for response again, will try rear CHF.

Chance 05-05-2018 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tfryman (Post 118693)
The CHF does not raise or lower the body. The only time the bar is "sprung" is in a turn, and the torsion just minimizes roll.

That’s not exactly the only time a sway bar is “sprung”. Sway bars are also twisted or sprung any time the road isn’t flat, which includes any time one wheel on an axle tries to go higher or lower than the other one on the same axle.

That’s why sway bars have to be limited in size to a reasonable stiffness, otherwise all kinds of bad things will happen.

If sway bars only limited body roll on turns on flat roads, we could make them as thick as we wanted. In the real world, however, roads are not perfectly flat, so making sway bars too thick/stiff is not a good idea because it has negative side effects.

dterens 05-06-2018 11:18 AM

Thanks for the input. Have you done the CHF on your MH?

Chance 05-06-2018 12:20 PM

Cheap handling fix applies to Ford F-53 and not E-Series. You can accomplish the same results (albeit spending a little cash) with E-Series by installing thicker aftermarket sway bars. Stock OEM sway control on E-Series is a good compromise for me; hence, no need to “fix” anything.

I figure it’s a complicated subject. My E-Series comes from Ford with a heavier front sway bar than other larger E-Series. To the average guy on the street, that seems counterintuitive, but there is a perfectly valid reason Ford engineers design it that way — and it adds to my safety. So why doesn’t Ford use the stiffer front sway bar on larger/heavier E-Series? Because they don’t need one as badly as I do. And the reason my sway bar is stiffer is not to control sway.

Obviously there must be a lot more to suspension design than limiting lean on turns.




P.S. — Tfryman is correct in that properly installed sway bars don’t lift or drop body when vehicle leans. If that’s all you’re worried about, it shouldn’t be much of an issue unless links end up at some goofy angle.

dterens 05-06-2018 01:03 PM

I have a F-53 chassis. Since the CHF in both cases (front and rear) is in effect shortening the sway bar it h

dterens 05-06-2018 01:04 PM

It should reduce the roll.

Chance 05-06-2018 02:54 PM

That is correct, it reduces lean. However, that’s not all it does.

Muggs 05-06-2018 03:37 PM

The sway bay also send a percentage of load to opposite side.

On my racecar, my rear sway bar is preloaded to keep car close to level on launch. I run no front sway bar.

I am curious as to how much bigger sway bar in e-450 vegas will help. I do not like he leaning (roll) on roads like I-4. Feel like front end ready to wash out.

Kev 05-06-2018 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggs (Post 118765)
The sway bay also send a percentage of load to opposite side.

On my racecar, my rear sway bar is preloaded to keep car close to level on launch. I run no front sway bar.

I am curious as to how much bigger sway bar in e-450 vegas will help. I do not like he leaning (roll) on roads like I-4. Feel like front end ready to wash out.

Try Sumo Springs.

Chance 05-06-2018 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggs (Post 118765)
The sway bay also send a percentage of load to opposite side.

On my racecar, my rear sway bar is preloaded to keep car close to level on launch. I run no front sway bar.

....cut....

Is that for drag racing?

Muggs 05-06-2018 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chance (Post 118778)
Is that for drag racing?

Yes, leaves will front wheels off ground. Without preload, it would lift driver front higher which can hurt reaction time. Is low 11 sec car, not real powerful but lots of fun.

Zeagle63 05-06-2018 09:34 PM

Just drove 300 interstate miles after doing front and back “CHF” on my Thor Ace. Huge improvement! No more White knuckle driving, no more fear of big trucks passing and passengers claim better ride.

dterens 05-07-2018 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeagle63 (Post 118801)
Just drove 300 interstate miles after doing front and back “CHF” on my Thor Ace. Huge improvement! No more White knuckle driving, no more fear of big trucks passing and passengers claim better ride.

Thanks for the response. Glad it worked out. I will be doing the same.

Chance 05-07-2018 12:54 PM

Things are not always what they seem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggs (Post 118788)
Yes, leaves will front wheels off ground. Without preload, it would lift driver front higher which can hurt reaction time. Is low 11 sec car, not real powerful but lots of fun.


I drag raced my friends in high school on a regular basis — was one of few things to do in small town (yes, I know it was wrong and illegal, but at least we did it miles from town).

Anyway, one of the things that perplexed me back then as a teenager was how my car (and others too) would spin the right rear tire while at same time squat the right rear down much lower than the left rear.

My Mustang had an open differential, so it made sense that only one tire would spin uncontrollably when I popped the clutch a little too aggressively, but why the right rear tire if that side of the car was squatting down more under extra weight? If anything the left rear should have broken loose first.

A few years later while studying engineering I realized that what was actually happening was completely backwards from what I was seeing with my own eyes and feeling with every launch.

That experience was the first of many that made me a little skeptical even about my own observations and conclusions. I love Poe’s “believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see.”

Roadking 05-12-2018 02:38 PM

See Roadking comments about stability and handling

Roadking 05-12-2018 02:39 PM

See Roadking comments on stability


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