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-   -   Two Power Inverters & AGS w/Residential Fridge? (https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f27/two-power-inverters-ags-w-residential-fridge-14141.html)

dkoldman 09-15-2018 03:52 PM

Two Power Inverters & AGS w/Residential Fridge?
 
I am looking to purchase a new Thor ACE 29.3 unit. Normally the model only comes with one 1000 Watt inverter Xantrex for the outside refrigerator, TVs and gas/electric refrigerator. But for this unit, Thor put in a residential refrigerator, a 2nd power inverter Xantrex, and a AGS Xantrex. While I kind of like that, I am concerned because both inverters have to be on the same bank of standard two 12 volt Worldwide batteries. My fear is that the way it is setup; I would basically be cutting the available amp hours in half. Since I have not bought yet many options still exist. Would you think I should draw a hard line to have Thor / RV Dealer double the battery capacity with two 6 Volts or similar, move on to a unit that has gas / electric refrigerator, or just accept it as it? I have rented RVs in the past and do expect to dry camp and boondock. But I do tend to think that if I can get 24 hours off the batteries; I probably will never have an issue with AGS having to kick on short the unexpected.

I worry mostly about quiet hours because most of the places I go do not like loud generators at night. This generator is Onan 5500. I have never heard it to know how loud it would be but assume, I shouldn't run at night regardless.

16ACE27 09-15-2018 04:02 PM

The available amp-hours hasn't changed. Your use of those amp-hours has greatly increased with the residential refrigerator so yeah, I'd insist on a bigger battery bank.

Long & Winding road 09-17-2018 07:13 PM

I dont have your model but to me it seem odd to have TWO inverters. They should upgrade to one (Maybe 2000 watt?). Perhaps insist on larger battery bank?

All of the gernerators I have hear on these RV's are very loud. So yeah - like 8am till 10 pm for sure for run time (but 8 to 8 would be ideal if you can get away with it).

If your not running your AC it should only take a few hours to recharge your bank after using all night on 12v. So like 8 till Noon then you should be full and maybe run again 6 to 8pm to top off for the night?).

TurnerFam 09-17-2018 07:42 PM

: generators - everyone has the same issue with generators - the anticipated 'noise'...though I'll add that most onboard Onan generators are no where near as 'loud' as typical generators set outside other RVs... but, yes, many campgrounds limit their night time usage.

: inverter(s) - regardless of whether you have one, or even two, the outcome is the same as if it was a single unit. It sounds like they are trying to keep the basic design the same, similar, and give you the option of the second inverter to power to other items that now need it. The real question is more of battery bank 'storage' capacity, for the 'overnight' usage.

: batteries - whether you need two batteries, or four batteries, really depends more on what you are powering with the battery bank, and for how long. Many of us talk about Inverter 'size', and Solar 'size', but yet if we don't have enough battery 'storage' capacity, we are simply overlooking the greatest need. More batteries equals more overnight capacity.

If I were you, I would simply start with the setup provided by the factory. You might be surprised that their design and engineering teams know more than we might give them credit for.
If you eventually find that your 'off-grid' needs for power are well met by the current batteries, then fine. If you find that you are lacking the amount of storage, you can either change to 6v batteries, or even move to 4 - 6v deep charge batteries wired in series, and parallel, like most larger coaches.

If you have the AGS, you'll find that it's a great tool to provide an easy-to-use off-grid RVing experience. It will crank and run your generator, automatically, when needed to charge the battery bank. You can also set it to limit starting during certain overnight 'quiet time' hours. Simple. and Remember, many folks 'worry' about the residential fridge the most, as if just because it has no power for several hours that everything in it will somehow suddenly 'go bad'... but a fridge is just a big cooler, it will keep things cold for many hours with no power, worst case scenario.

dkoldman 09-18-2018 12:55 AM

Thanks this is excellent information. Two things.

1) I haven't purchased yet so, if buy as designed and later find out reserve capacity is inadequate, I am fairly certain the RV Dealer will not have any incentive to help me with the cost. On the other hand since unit is brand new, if I get enough to confirm my thinking that fundamentally the intent of current design is theoretically flawed as they have basically added a Residential refrigerator, I can draw a hard line they they upgrade the batteries before I purchase. My intent here is to make sure that what I may be demanded as practical merit? I did talk with Worldwide Battery who suggested I asked EV Dealer to upgrade with 2 new Group 31 12 v with 225 AH each.

2) On Generator noise. This unit has the Onan 5.5KW. How much louder is it over the 4000 KW? My hearing is already bad, and wonder if this upgrade will come back to haunt me?

upnyfolks 09-18-2018 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkoldman (Post 144436)
I am looking to purchase a new Thor ACE 29.3 unit. Normally the model only comes with one 1000 Watt inverter Xantrex for the outside refrigerator, TVs and gas/electric refrigerator. But for this unit, Thor put in a residential refrigerator, a 2nd power inverter Xantrex, and a AGS Xantrex. While I kind of like that, I am concerned because both inverters have to be on the same bank of standard two 12 volt Worldwide batteries. My fear is that the way it is setup; I would basically be cutting the available amp hours in half. Since I have not bought yet many options still exist. Would you think I should draw a hard line to have Thor / RV Dealer double the battery capacity with two 6 Volts or similar, move on to a unit that has gas / electric refrigerator, or just accept it as it? I have rented RVs in the past and do expect to dry camp and boondock. But I do tend to think that if I can get 24 hours off the batteries; I probably will never have an issue with AGS having to kick on short the unexpected.

I worry mostly about quiet hours because most of the places I go do not like loud generators at night. This generator is Onan 5500. I have never heard it to know how loud it would be but assume, I shouldn't run at night regardless.


We have a 2018 Hurricane 29M that Thor configured the same way, they put a separate 1000 watt inverter behind a drawer in the bedroom next to the refrigerator.

Our batteries where in poor condition when we picked up the rv (took 1 gallon of distilled water to fill them before we ever used the rv).

With all that said we have no problem camping for a weekend at a state park with no hookups and never running the generator, however that is without using the outside fridge. I have never used the gen auto start other than to test it because I just monitor the voltages and start it if I feel they are getting low.

dkoldman 09-18-2018 03:05 AM

I talked with Worldwide who seemed to be a little down on the fact that a lot of the RV's can sit so long which is not good on the batteries. I am pretty sure from what I have read and learned that I will ask for the upgrade to Group 31. I will let them tell me how they wish to do it with two new 12 volts units with more reserve capacity, or two 6 volts with more reserve. I won't try to make them do 4 unless they just offer to.

You say "separate 1000 watt inverter behind a drawer in the bedroom next to the refrigerator. " Is it easy to get to turn that power inverter off, or do you have on/off switch on residential fridge to turn off when not being used? I assume that both of the power inverters are wired directly to the battery, so when not in use, you need some way to ensure they are not in use? I assume everything connected to both power inverters bypass the battery disconnect switch?

The RV dealer has gone 3 days now trying to find out what all is connected to Power Inverter #1 and Power Inverter #2.

upnyfolks 09-18-2018 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkoldman (Post 144920)
I talked with Worldwide who seemed to be a little down on the fact that a lot of the RV's can sit so long which is not good on the batteries. I am pretty sure from what I have read and learned that I will ask for the upgrade to Group 31. I will let them tell me how they wish to do it with two new 12 volts units with more reserve capacity, or two 6 volts with more reserve. I won't try to make them do 4 unless they just offer to.

You say "separate 1000 watt inverter behind a drawer in the bedroom next to the refrigerator. " Is it easy to get to turn that power inverter off, or do you have on/off switch on residential fridge to turn off when not being used? I assume that both of the power inverters are wired directly to the battery, so when not in use, you need some way to ensure they are not in use? I assume everything connected to both power inverters bypass the battery disconnect switch?

The RV dealer has gone 3 days now trying to find out what all is connected to Power Inverter #1 and Power Inverter #2.


The second inverter for the fridge is a 1000 watt GoPower pure sine inverter and it has a remote on/off switch mounted in the wall on the side of the fridge, this inverter powers only the inside fridge and is directly wired to the batteries.


Our main inverter is a Xantrex 1000 watt modified sine inverter, this powers the TV's and outside fridge as well as an outlet located in the passenger work station located in the dash area. The Xantrex inverter is also wired into the AC panel and has an automatic transfer switch built in so that when on shore power or the generator is running the inverter passes through the AC power.
The only problems we have had is with the residential fridge not cooling properly when the temps in the rv drop below about 50 degrees, this has caused us to lose a fridge full of food on a couple of occasions.
The second problem is with the fridge mounting, the top of the fridge has 2 brackets that are screwed into the top of the fridge and then into a header above the fridge, the screws that are in the top of the fridge have worn loose and deformed the holes so that I am going to have to remove the fridge and relocate the brackets.


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