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-   -   Power dies when on batteries after 15 seconds (https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f17/power-dies-when-batteries-after-15-seconds-20420.html)

Budman 01-18-2020 07:40 PM

Power dies when on batteries after 15 seconds
 
Ok, I searched and cannot find this issue or looked at wrong threads. 2014 Hurricane 34E.

To start tale: I turn on coach with use/store button, lites come on, no shore power, no generator, no big engine running. Power switches off after 15 seconds. Shore power would not work. If I start generator as soon as power comes up it will die when batteries die. I start big engine lites work.
I called RV mobile, folks came and determined converter was not working and changed converter.
I left plugged in to shore overnite and went back and tried again. Same result when I unplugged the shore power. If I started generator before loss of power, lites work and continue to work. Lites work on shore power. I am assuming converter is working now. But coach will not operate on just battery power.
Batteries are 6 months old Interstate deep cycle and sitting around 12.8 to 13.1 volts. Water is full as I have automatic watering and I have checked them anyways.
I am confused. Any ideas? I read of a solenoid switch but cannot find mine so cannot check yet. Transfer switch and converter were under bed but did not see a solenoid.
Any help appreciated. Thx, Dennis.

cavie 01-18-2020 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budman (Post 220032)
Ok, I searched and cannot find this issue or looked at wrong threads. 2014 Hurricane 34E.

To start tale: I turn on coach with use/store button, lites come on, no shore power, no generator, no big engine running. Power switches off after 15 seconds. Shore power would not work. If I start generator as soon as power comes up it will die when batteries die. I start big engine lites work.
I called RV mobile, folks came and determined converter was not working and changed converter.
I left plugged in to shore overnite and went back and tried again. Same result when I unplugged the shore power. If I started generator before loss of power, lites work and continue to work. Lites work on shore power. I am assuming converter is working now. But coach will not operate on just battery power.
Batteries are 6 months old Interstate deep cycle and sitting around 12.8 to 13.1 volts. Water is full as I have automatic watering and I have checked them anyways.
I am confused. Any ideas? I read of a solenoid switch but cannot find mine so cannot check yet. Transfer switch and converter were under bed but did not see a solenoid.
Any help appreciated. Thx, Dennis.

Please explain. What in the coach doesn't operate? Is battery disconnect ON? You are hard to follow.

What are you calling POWER? 120 volt or 12 volt?

Budman 01-18-2020 09:00 PM

Things are clear in your head but don't always make it to ur fingers!!! Let me try again.

No shore power hooked up
No generator running
No big engine running
New converter
Batteries 6 months old
Shore power had been on all nite
Batteries holding 12.8 to 13.1 volts

Turn on use store switch
Turn on lights
Lites burn 15-20 seconds
Lites shut off
Nothing works.

Hopefully better. Thx, Dennis.

cavie 01-18-2020 09:24 PM

Sounds like the battery disconnect relay is faulty. It's the same thing as an old school starter relay. If you cycle that relay does it activate the lights for another 15 sec? got a volt meter?

Budman 01-18-2020 10:21 PM

It will not immediately reset but in a few/couple minutes. Then comes on, then goes out. Thx, Dennis.

PS. Yes I have a voltmeter.

cavie 01-19-2020 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budman (Post 220049)
It will not immediately reset but in a few/couple minutes. Then comes on, then goes out. Thx, Dennis.

PS. Yes I have a voltmeter.

check the two smaller wires on the relay. See if has constant voltage with the lights out. If it does than see if the voltage is going thru the larger wires. We are checking the contacts in the relay. Check each stud to ground.

Budman 01-19-2020 01:06 AM

I'll have to find the thing first!!! I'll ask in another thread and see if any other Hurricane owners know. I have not seen that relay yet!!! Thx, Dennis.

cavie 01-19-2020 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budman (Post 220063)
I'll have to find the thing first!!! I'll ask in another thread and see if any other Hurricane owners know. I have not seen that relay yet!!! Thx, Dennis.

Can't help you there. Near the battery would be my guess. Electric conpartment?

Budman 01-19-2020 01:13 AM

Yea not in there!!! Thx.

OldWEB 01-19-2020 01:44 AM

Bcc
 
I would guess you have a BCC (Battery Control Center) on your Hurricane and it controls the chassis / coach battery charging and use. On the Hurricane it can be found behind the engine hood, driver side. The "Emergency (AUX) Start" switch on your dash is part of it.
Also, can you monitor both (chassis and coach) battery voltages during these 'episodes'? Like you mentioned, the inverter is working now as long as AC is supplied so the lights work. The BCC manual has a short troubleshooting section.

Stay cool

javelin 01-19-2020 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budman (Post 220039)
Things are clear in your head but don't always make it to ur fingers!!! Let me try again.

No shore power hooked up
No generator running
No big engine running
New converter
Batteries 6 months old
Shore power had been on all nite
Batteries holding 12.8 to 13.1 volts


Since you did not have the "coach battery disconnect" (or use/store switch) in the "on" position, your batteries were probably not charging all night off the new converter as you thought. So I am surprised your coach battery voltages measured much higher than 12.6vdc (assuming light or no coach load all night; and they are standard wet cell batteries).



Like OldWeb said you "might" have the RV Custom BCC box controlling your battery systems. If you have both a coach battery and chassis battery disconnect switch by the door, you probably have this BCC. If yes, then the latching relays (one for coach and one for chassis batteries are in the BCC and are not easy (physically) to replace. There is good Youtube video on opening this BCC up for repair. If you don't have this BCC then I am not sure what your coach uses for battery control or where the latch relay is located.



With shore connected and use/store in the on position, what voltage do you measure across the coach batteries? Should be 13vdc or more typically if the use/store latching relay is closed and latched and converter is charging the coach batteries.




Turn on use store switch
Turn on lights


When you turn on the use/store latch relay you should hear one clunk sound. If you hear another clunk after the 15 seconds when the lights fail it might be that the relay is not holding.


Also, if you are on shore power only your converter should be powering the lights directly without the use/store being on. If not, then maybe that new converter is not connected or working correctly.



Lites burn 15-20 seconds
Lites shut off
Nothing works.

Hopefully better. Thx, Dennis.


Just a few comments in blue for consideration.

OldWEB 01-19-2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javelin (Post 220176)
Just a few comments in blue for consideration.

The OP says they are deaf, use caps to reply. :rolleyes:

You may be right about not having a BCC, now they are looking for a Batt Disc relay.


Stay cool

Budman 01-19-2020 10:19 PM

Thanks Javelin

Budman 01-19-2020 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldWEB (Post 220187)
The OP says they are deaf, use caps to reply. :rolleyes:

You may be right about not having a BCC, now they are looking for a Batt Disc relay.


Stay cool

Thanks for thinking of me Oldweb. But I lost my hearing in Vietnam and service to my country.
Where exactly did you lose your sense of humor??? :facepalm::facepalm:

Budman 01-19-2020 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javelin (Post 220176)
Just a few comments in blue for consideration.

Javelin, actually I believe I may have a black box under the hood in the front. After looking thru some drawings Thor had sent to me I remember having to actually check a fuse in it when fixing my TV antenna QS53 box power. That brought back the fact it was under the hood and had changed by Thor doing the build process.
I will get back to the storage lot this week and check that out. I understood from another thread https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f17...stem-2020.html (old thread someone resurrected) that mentions in quote from Thor "there may actually be a reset capable relay in it located in the bottom left hand corner."

Thx and I'll let you know, Dennis.

javelin 01-19-2020 11:44 PM

Hi, if you do the test I suggested (connect to shore; turn on use/store switch and measure voltage on your coach batteries), and if you measure 13vdc to 13.8 vdc approx., it means that your converter is charging the coach batteries OK. If you have the RV Custom BCC black box.....it also means that that 50 amp re-settable breaker inside the BCC (that you are talking about) is OK......and it means the coach battery latching relay is also OK (at least they are allowing charging current from converter output through to the coach batteries OK for this test).



The other basic test is connect to shore; turn off use/store (or called coach disconnect switch if you have the RV Custom BCC); turn on some coach 12vdc lights......do they work OK? This is checking that the converter is working and connected to your DC distribution fuses (lights anyway). I would expect if the first test passes you would also probably pass the second OK, but you never know when folks have been making changes in electrical system connections.


This might still be the coach latching relay failing as other posters have suggested, but lets do some basic testing first and go from there. There are many excellent contributors on this forum, and I may not be be able to reply for a few days.....but I am sure someone will continue to help.



There is a lot of info on line and in this forum about the RV Custom BCC. Let's first make sure you have one before going down that rabbit hole.

javelin 01-20-2020 12:30 AM

1 Attachment(s)
A picture of the RV Custom BCC attached FYI.

cavie 01-20-2020 03:58 AM

PMed Budman. He is dealing with some family stuff. He will be back with us ASAP.

Budman 01-20-2020 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javelin (Post 220205)
Hi, if you do the test I suggested (connect to shore; turn on use/store switch and measure voltage on your coach batteries), and if you measure 13vdc to 13.8 vdc approx., it means that your converter is charging the coach batteries OK. If you have the RV Custom BCC black box.....it also means that that 50 amp re-settable breaker inside the BCC (that you are talking about) is OK......and it means the coach battery latching relay is also OK (at least they are allowing charging current from converter output through to the coach batteries OK for this test).

I did go over today and looked around some more. When I first got there before unhooking anything or turning any lights on I checked coach batteries and they were about 13.1. Chassis battery was about 13.6. I did turn on some lights and coach immediately went down to 12.7.
I do have the BCC black box under the hood. I checked breaker since I was looking at it and it changed nothing.


The other basic test is connect to shore; turn off use/store (or called coach disconnect switch if you have the RV Custom BCC); turn on some coach 12vdc lights......do they work OK? This is checking that the converter is working and connected to your DC distribution fuses (lights anyway). I would expect if the first test passes you would also probably pass the second OK, but you never know when folks have been making changes in electrical system connections.

Lights do work during this test.


This might still be the coach latching relay failing as other posters have suggested, but lets do some basic testing first and go from there. There are many excellent contributors on this forum, and I may not be be able to reply for a few days.....but I am sure someone will continue to help.

After completing these tests I unhooked shore power. I turned on lights. 15 seconds later they kicked off. Coach batteries were still at 12.7 even w shore power unhooked. I was there approximately 30 minutes doing a couple other things. After plugging back into shore power I checked batteries again. Coach batteries were at 12.8 and chassis battery was charging at 14.2. Definitely a big difference. I got cold and aggravated by then and left.
I also called RV bunch who put converter in and told them they did not solve all the problem. They will have to come back and see what else they find. Thx, Dennis.


There is a lot of info on line and in this forum about the RV Custom BCC. Let's first make sure you have one before going down that rabbit hole.

I really don't know what else to check but I dont think I can bend well enough to do much in that box anyway. I thought about changing one fuse 3a F44 described as COACH DISC POWER but didn't have a 3 w me. . Thought there may be an issue there. Keep the ideas coming but I won't tackle getting into relays and such. My body just won't work that way!!! Thx. Dennis,

javelin 01-23-2020 06:17 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Sorry for the delay in responding, but health issues come first. My first reaction to your voltage measurements is how it could be that while on shore power only; converter is running and charging, since both battery strings are above base (full charge) level of 12.6vdc for resting wet cell batteries. So 13.1 vdc on coach and 13.6 on chassis? The way this BCC works is when on converter the coach battery charges to approx 13.2 vdc at which point (after 15 sec delay) the BCC voltage sensing electronics closes the isolator relay, which connects both coach and chassis batteries together in parallel essentially. At that point the charging voltage from the converter should be the same value on both strings, if all is wired correctly and functioning normally.
So charging current is coming from the converter through the 50 amp re-settable circuit breaker in the BCC and feeds to the coach battery through the "on" coach battery disconnect latching relay.......and also supplies charging current to the chassis battery via the now closed isolator relay. I modified a charging circuit to show roughly how the RV Custom BCC connects your battery strings (see attached).

When you operate and release coach and chassis disconnect switches at the door you should hear the latching relays also operate and release. Similarly when you operate the emergency start switch by the driver, you should hear the isolator relay also operate and release. If there is no sounds from any of these operations then something has failed inside the BCC or something is wired wrong.


Strange also that DC lights work when on shore/converter, but when on coach battery only they fail after 15 seconds and your coach battery voltage drops under load (normal) but the chassis battery jumps to 14.2. Impossible. The shore is off/ converter is off how can the coach batteries be charging? Also when the coach lights shut off what sounds do you hear......does it sound like the coach latching relay dropping out? I suspect you have some wiring problems minimum either to the BCC or inside the BCC. When on shore/converter power the voltage you measure at the converter fuse panel should be almost or identical to what you measure on the coach batteries. Enough said for now.


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