2021 Thor Hurricane 29M - House batteries died quickly

[PS89]

So will the LI-BIM 225 control the charging amperage? From what I'm reading it doesn't control the amperage but will connect the house batteries for 15 minutes then disconnect for 15 minutes so the alternator cools down.

Short answers:

1). No.

2) 15 on, 20 off BUT only if the measure voltages aare within the limits in the not that Ace posted.

 

[GTM41261]

Well let me throw this out. Do you really need the coach batteries to be charged by the alternator if you have solar and are plugged in while camping?

 

[ducksface]

Well let me throw this out. Do you really need the coach batteries to be charged by the alternator if you have solar and are plugged in while camping?

We don't need it.
Generator at whatever a qg4000 puts out for charging.

150a from my Xantrex-815-3012-Freedom-Inverter-Charger.

Shore

No solar for us(a toy justified by 'I dont want noise' if you have the other charging sources, but needed in moderation if you have to store for long periods without contact)

DC to dc; we have one yet to be installed.

our bim was there. It works without our input or any effort. It has value...though NONE as a charging device if you have a smart alternator...because a smart alternator does what a bim does but intelligently.

It does other valuable things.
It works in an odd and old fashioned way. It has been supplanted(for charging)by smart alternators.
Bim was there and usable and easy so I left it in the system.

 

[16ACE27]

Ford smart alternator regulates output current by the vehicle's PCM.

Regulates
Output
Current
So
As
To
Not
Fry
Itself

Your premise is incorrect.

Smart alternators regulate output VOLTAGE controlled by the ECM.
"Smart" alternators are a fuel-saving alternative that vehicle manufacturers implemented. The alternator's output is controlled by the ECM, reducing load on the alternator & engine when power is not needed and therefore increasing mpg

When the battery is fully charged or electrical loads are low, the alternator's output is reduced, decreasing the load on the engine and improving fuel economy.

When the battery is low or there are high electrical demands, the alternator will increase its output to ensure adequate charging.

So a "smart" alternator (if it even exists on Class A or C RVS) does not prevent LFP batteries from "asking" for more charging current.

 

[ducksface]

Anything i posted about current came from ford due to me double checking my knowledge.

Do we think a modern alternator wouldn't regulate itself based on temperature?
Why wouldn't it?
I could do it with a fuseable link and jb weld.

I'd be surprised if temp regulation wasn't a thing since the early 1970's.

The battery can ask but it won't be there until temperature is within parameters.
The 'ask' cannot affect the temp cut-off.

 

[ducksface]

Automotive alternators – In-built safety and temperature compensation

Continuing with the subject of Automotive alternators, this post talks about the in-built safety and temperature compensation In-built safety in Alternator design against short circuit The int…

autoelectricalsystems.wordpress.com

1970's stuff.
The first built in regulators.

An alternator may indeed dump 170a when cold.
It will then drop down to the 80a when at engine bay temps...just as myself and others have REAL WORLD reported.
It may drop to 40a if particularly hot.
I doubt it will go to less.

If it knows, as described in a post above, to increase output...why wouldn't it know to decrease output as self-preservation?
THIS is the arguments basis.
Internal regulator is the arguments vehicle.
Amps dropping to 80 due to temp regulation is the closer.

 

[16ACE27]

Automotive alternators – In-built safety and temperature compensation

Continuing with the subject of Automotive alternators, this post talks about the in-built safety and temperature compensation In-built safety in Alternator design against short circuit The int…

autoelectricalsystems.wordpress.com

1970's stuff.
The first built in regulators.

An alternator may indeed dump 170a when cold.
It will then drop down to the 80a when at engine bay temps...just as myself and others have REAL WORLD reported.
It may drop to 40a if particularly hot.
I doubt it will go to less.

Did you read your linked article? The temperature compensation referenced is Ambient Engine Bay Temperature, not the alternator temperature. It has nothing to do with "protecting" the alternator and everything to do with protecting the chassis battery while charging.

 

[ducksface]

I'll do as facts dictate.


Still no one has posted, other than one miserable lab based fear mongering, proof of any real life high percentage of failures, against all of the factory info I've posted and the 80a scenario those here who've ACTUALLY MONITORED have told of.

Op;
The lithium swap is a drop-in conversion. Swap two wet for two liths, double your power availability and sleep well doing it.

This argument against drop-in has gone to huge battery banks and low percentages of failure just to make a laboratory based case.

I'm guessing most of us see this.

 

[16ACE27]

Fred,
I did actually fry my alternator within a few months of installing 6 100Ah Lithium batteries. I was getting ready to upgrade the inverters and was waiting to add the DC-DC converter.......thinking that my 200Ah alternator would be OK for a while, especially if I used the generator to keep them topped off before hitting the road.....NOPE....fried it just that quickly!

I think you made the right decision to disconnect the alternator from the house batteries until you have the DC-DC installed..... you may want to think about adding a 2nd one of those if you want more charging but with only a couple of Batteries, one should be just fine.

I now have dual 24-12/15 Orions installed (after a huge upgrade/conversion) and we consistently see ~42-45A to the batteries underway, according to the pros these units consistently put out about 140 - 150% of rated capacity.: thumb:

Just one story from IRV2

 

[ducksface]

You're right.
Just one.
On a comparatively large bank of batteries that less than 1 in 1,000 of folks have upgraded to.
If they have that size of bank to begin with they can swap to lithium without a worry.
Bank size to bank size how can't it be a swap? What does a lithium draw that a wet doesnt?
Double the charge time IF the bank drew down to zero?
Chances? Few....


And we don't know if he fried the alternator or not.
He thinks he did but we don't know if he knows a gland nut from a toilet ball.
Could have been a bearing.
The details are too scant.

Within a few months?
It's almost unrelated by time.

Real life, recall level of failures are needed to convince any but those folk resolved to not look beyond some factory induced fear.

Just one story from IRV2

 

[ducksface]

Because I don't know;
What regulators are in a generator that keeps it temp and current regulated that aren't in an alternator?

Why¿

An inverter cuts itself off at temp...
Why and how?

If these indeed do(I don't know)why wouldn't an alternator?

I think(and my 80a output confirms)that alternators self regulate just as they have since the 70's.

 

[16ACE27]

You're right.
Just one.
On a comparatively large bank of batteries that less than 1 in 1,000 of folks have upgraded to.
If they have that size of bank to begin with they can swap to lithium without a worry.
Bank size to bank size how can't it be a swap? What does a lithium draw that a wet doesnt?
Double the charge time IF the bank drew down to zero?
Chances? Few....


And we don't know if he fried the alternator or not.
He thinks he did but we don't know if he knows a gland nut from a toilet ball.
Could have been a bearing.
The details are too scant.

Within a few months?
It's almost unrelated by time.

Real life, recall level of failures are needed to convince any but those folk resolved to not look beyond some factory induced fear.

And some people are not so easily swayed as they profess.

 

[ducksface]

I've been correct about every lithium myth I've busted here despite the push-back.
I don't think anyone has caught me dead wrong.
Many here have recently(and tentatively)switched to lithium due to being able to consider considerations without the then and before constant bombardment of lying old garbage.
They seem happy enough with the new facts.

Standard education and explanation are written for the lower half. Information quits once the lower half communally nods their head.
Every public speaker and product manual writer knows this.

You'll all come around.
You all have before.

I am often in the lower half.
Then I go beyond... and I'm not in the lower half.

 

[k_enn]

IMO, a Li BIM 225 is cheap insurance against frying a more expensive alternator. It is also an easy DIY.

 

[ducksface]

IMO, a Li BIM 225 is cheap insurance against frying a more expensive alternator. It is also an easy DIY.

What does it do differently?

 

[k_enn]

What does it do differently?

It does just what Ace said above in post #14.

 

[rudyhehn]

I am not sure about the engineering. But in real life I put in 4x100ah lithiums 3 years ago. I have not had any alternator problems with my Palazzo even if my batteries are down to 25% charge. Not sure if it's a robust alternator or a charge limiter somewhere in the BIM or the batteries themselves. Bottom line is no problems so far.

 

[ducksface]

It does just what Ace said above in post #14.

Differently.
Differently than the 160 most folks already have?

 

[ducksface]

I am not sure about the engineering. But in real life I put in 4x100ah lithiums 3 years ago. I have not had any alternator problems with my Palazzo even if my batteries are down to 25% charge. Not sure if it's a robust alternator or a charge limiter somewhere in the BIM or the batteries themselves. Bottom line is no problems so far.

Exactly this.
We hear from folks like you and I who present definitive tests.

We hear from friends of friends about failures or speculation on problems six months after MODERN liths installed, and we hear from folks who did their installation 6 years/ago.

 

[PS89]

Differently than the 160 most folks already have?

Yes, differently, Different voltage trigger points are used for activation plus the Li-BIM is cycled 15 on/20 off. Also rated for higher current.