AGM to Lithium in 2022 Sanctuary

[RSKDSK]

I am thinking about changing from AGM to lithium on my 2022 Thor sanctuary. I started to look at my current equipment

2 AGM batteries under coach on either side of the axle with MP 100amp ignition protection
Southwire transfer switch (generator / shore power) - (model 41301)
WFCO 1000w inverter (WF-5110RS) - need to check if this is a charger as well?
Go Power solar charge controller (GP-PWM-30-SQ)

I have not located the alternator power regulatory yet (charging house battery)
I have not located the shore power AGM battery charger yet

Has anyone done this?

 

[16ACE27]

Southwire transfer switch (generator / shop power) - (model 41301)
WFCO 1000w inverter (WF-5110RS)
Go Power solar charge controller (GP-PWM-30-SQ)

None of that matters.

Your Converter/Charger should be in your Power Center and annotated on your build sheet.
Your BIM/BIRD/IRD should be annotated on your electrical diagrams.
Get your VIN and go to the Thor Owners Resource Website where you can create an account and have access to videos, Quick Start Guides, and documentation specifically for your RV.

 

[RSKDSK]

For me these are important as I am planning to make some major changes.

at least 400 ah of lithium batteries in place of AGM
3000 watt inverter in place of 1000watts
DC to DC charger in place of the isolator

The AC and microwave will be running off inverter

 

[RSKDSK]

For me these are important as I am planning to make some major changes.

at least 400 ah of lithium batteries in place of AGM
3000 watt inverter in place of 1000watts
DC to DC charger in place of the isolator

The transfer switch should not be an issue

The AC and microwave will be running off inverter

 

[16ACE27]

The SP/Generator ATS and Inverter and Lithium ready solar charger have no bearing on your battery replacement. Your current battery charging components do.

Now if you want to ask about upgrading the entire electrical system then that is the question that should be asked. Your new inverter doesn't really care about the batteries either, until they are dead.

 

[dkoldman]

For me these are important as I am planning to make some major changes.

at least 400 ah of lithium batteries in place of AGM
3000 watt inverter in place of 1000watts
DC to DC charger in place of the isolator

The AC and microwave will be running off inverter

I would start with what is the size amp draw, power requirements in watts of your AC and ask yourself how long do you need or expect the AC to run off the batteries?

I had a 1000 watt in a SOB, but when I bought a new inverter I only bought a 2200 watt inverter. The most I can recall using was 1800 watts, with fridge, TVs, lights and microwave. All my Inverter equipment is wired to a 15 amp circuit so 3,000 watts for me just sounds good but no value. But maybe you will wire everything to the inverter? If so, and you are running 20 -25 amps sustained you gonna need a lot but than 400 ah. I have 300ah, and never have an issue, but my ACs are not on that circuit.

But maybe your plan is to run the engine to serve as a source of power. If so, it may work, there are plenty of cheaper options but the Victron DC to DC Orion XS 50amps is very good. We have the inverter on all the time when driving and rarely use our true generator anymore.

 

[RSKDSK]

The SP/Generator ATS and Inverter and Lithium ready solar charger have no bearing on your battery replacement. Your current battery charging components do.

Now if you want to ask about upgrading the entire electrical system then that is the question that should be asked. Your new inverter doesn't really care about the batteries either, until they are dead.

Yes, my current charging system does need to be compatible/capable with my new batteries ... and I want a system that will meet my needs. The solar charger is good (just need to change settings) ... the shore power charges the battery via the converter (which is not good enough) and the generator also goes through the converter (not good enough). The inverter is not good enough to manage the power output I will be putting on it and the chassis alternator needs protection with the amount of lithium charging I will be adding.

 

[RSKDSK]

I would start with what is the size amp draw, power requirements in watts of your ACn ask yourself how long do you need or expect the AC to run off the batteries?

I had a 1000 watt in a SOB, but when I bought a new inverter I only bought a 2200 watt inverter. The most I can recall using was 1800 watts, with fridge, TVs, lights and microwave. All my Inverter equipment is wired to a 15 amp circuit so 3,000 watts for me just sounds good but no value. But maybe you will wire everything to the inverter? If so, and you are running 20 -25 amps sustained you gonna need a lot but than 400 ah. I have 300ah, and never have an issue, but my ACs are not on that circuit.

But maybe your plan is to run the engine to serve as a source of power. If so, it may work, there are plenty of cheaper options but the Victron DC to DC Orion XS 50amps is very good. We have the inverter on all the time when driving and rarely use our true generator anymore.

Yes, my plan is to wire everything to the inverter including the AC ... the microwave I have already changed to the inverter (but need to run it at 80% power). My goal is to be able to run the AC for 12 hours off of the batteries. I agree that 400ah is not enough with the current AC power consumption but I am not opposed to changing out my AC as well.
Also, the conversion cost is not my limiting factor ... getting what I want is my only concern and I want to do it myself as I need to understand the system to be able to troubleshoot later.

 

[dkoldman]

If they will fit, I would look at getting two of these to have 600ah. https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Batt...y&qid=1749751755&sprefix=newti,aps,140&sr=8-3 You should be able to run your AC for your 12 hours assuing it draws on average 15amps per hour or so.

I replaced two 125ah AGMs at 75lbs each for one of the Newtipower 300ah and it has been night and day. 100lbs less weight and not just more ah capacity but the effective use down to 15% SOC if off the charts.

I was tempted to buy a 2nd Newtipower, but I have no need to. I never get below 83% SOC since the change. I don't have any illusion of running my ACs off my batteries. Even if I had the battery capacity for both ACs, I would rather run my generator for this coach. I have never been anywhere where if it was hot where ACs were needed, I could not run generator. If I were in a place like that, I would just leave and go some place else.

From what you describe the Victron Orion XS 50 amp DC to DC is a must for you. I had bought a Renogy and while it was on order I learned of Orion. So I bought and sold the brand new Renogy never opening the box to get the Orion XS. I do have a thread someplace that covers all of this as I did it over several months by myself one step at a time. Like you, I defied advice a few times because I want what I wanted, not simply what the masses may say.

 

[16ACE27]

You should be able to run your AC for your 12 hours assuing it draws on average 15amps per hour or so.

You need to remath that.
15 amps AC equals 150 amps DC at 12 VDC
4 hours at best.

 

[ducksface]

Three hours real world a/c only use(start up draw kills time exponentially) and then a 6 hour charge cycle is likely IF your inverter doesn't kick off due to thermal overload.

I took my a/c off of my inverter because the battery level messed with the a/c when on shore power.

So...
What do you do to charge those dead batteries that ran your a/c for three hours?
You run the generator or alternator for 6 to 8 hours.
You'll need two Xantrex-815-3012-Freedom-Inverter-Chargers to get the recharge amps You'll need...from an outside source, shore/generator/alternator if you have 800ah of batteries for 6 hours of a/c.

You could just as well run the a/c on non-battery power due to charge times being more hours than batteries provide as run hours.

Sorta:
You'll run a charger for 159%+ hours you ran on battery alone.
So, you're at a 50% net loss instead of whatever you think you've grossed.
The loss is a law.

there is no perpetual energy solution.

Two thousand amp hours of lithium battery capacity is not beyond my ability, space, or weight limits.
The recharge time would be ridiculously ridiculous.

Speak to solar panels as some of you will
But
Please include square footage requirements when you do promote this...then we'll all know(even the advocates) where you're right or wrong.

The op will do fine with the change as long as she takes the a/c want out of it all.
(If it could be done in a practical manner I'd be doing it)

 

[dkoldman]

You need to remath that.
15 amps AC equals 150 amps DC at 12 VDC
4 hours at best.

I always forget that. So if the OP bought 6 of those 300ah batteries, the 12 hour goal could be accomplished. I knew there was a reason why I don't even consider AC on my batteries.

I actually watched a guy crow about running his AC in his RV off his 2104wh Portable Bluetti ( he doesn't say how long , my Portable Bluetti is 1052wh and I am still gauging ways to use prudently.

Now for OP, the actual AC in their RV may only use 7.5 amps, and if that is case, only 3 of the 300ah batteries would be required. Short of Beau help to bail me out, there has got to be a way to make my math work

 

[16ACE27]

I always forget that. So if the OP bought 6 of those 300ah batteries, the 12 hour goal could be accomplished. I knew there was a reason why I don't even consider AC on my batteries.

I actually watched a guy crow about running his AC in his RV off his 2104wh Portable Bluetti ( he doesn't say how long , my Portable Bluetti is 1052wh and I am still gauging ways to use prudently.

Now for OP, the actual AC in their RV may only use 7.5 amps, and if that is case, only 3 of the 300ah batteries would be required. Short of Beau help to bail me out, there has got to be a way to make my math work

Yeah, too many unknowns and variables.
What size A/C?
Ambient temperature outside?
Insulation efficiency of the RV?

The best we can do is make some assumptions and guess.

 

[dkoldman]

Three hours real world a/c only use(start up draw kills time exponentially) and then a 6 hour charge cycle is likely IF your inverter doesn't kick off due to thermal overload.

I took my a/c off of my inverter because the battery level messed with the a/c when on shore power.

So...
What do you do to charge those dead batteries that ran your a/c for three hours?
You run the generator or alternator for 6 to 8 hours.
You'll need two Xantrex-815-3012-Freedom-Inverter-Chargers to get the recharge amps You'll need...from an outside source, shore/generator/alternator if you have 800ah of batteries for 6 hours of a/c.

You could just as well run the a/c on non-battery power due to charge times being more hours than batteries provide as run hours.

Sorta:
You'll run a charger for 159%+ hours you ran on battery alone.
So, you're at a 50% net loss of whatever you think you've grossed.
The loss is a law.

there is no perpetual energy solution.

Two thousand amp hours of lithium battery capacity is not beyond my ability, space, or weight limits.
The recharge time would be ridiculously ridiculous.

Speak to solar panels as some of you will
But
Please include square footage requirements when you do promote this...then we'll all know(even the advocates) where you're right or wrong.

The op will do fine with the change as long as she takes the a/c want out of it all.
(If it could be done in a practical manner I'd be doing it)

Preach Deacon Duck, I am listening. You may save one other soul from RV despair.

 

[ducksface]

Preach Deacon Duck, I am listening. You may save one other soul from RV despair.

Everyone thinks they can do the uncommon.
Few folks can.

If you're a hausfrau wanting a new way to strain spaghetti, look on you tube.

If you're a hausfrau thinking you can reinvent a particle collider and 100 other hausfrau don't already have vids about converting a collider... and she doesnt know a particle from a henway...she should probably ask, not tell, because her spaghetti knowledge isn't going to translate well to 17 mile long tunnels.

I'm all for mods.
I'm not for all mods for all folks as diy.
(This has nothing to do with my view of the op. She's just caught a bit of a math vs reality brunt)
One bad math and $6,000 later...will mean still no a/c, no matter the amount of want involved.

 

[RSKDSK]

If they will fit, I would look at getting two of these to have 600ah. https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Battery-Rechargeable-Parallel-Trolling/dp/B0CMZDBYZ9/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1OJV4N438AH3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Erht-8zTPunQfkddubO8pKRp317en8nHB0npHOyQpJ--DGjEIYsluC3ct6EmtWPQnP8lABpmdPdPb5C0INdtkBDqln_JLEZCIiy2qJcfuH3sHGFiKyyDkJ58cYxjHvtwTRgZ0erzbIkvRLcxpp9GZFDZoJupqRkomCfLDc_Ld_FiPkvLYBLBZUPWq7_pfnGewlI-2IifzUnT3Xo0h471fGZ47HCdoKlnQkfsTHDmatQ.zZsjCRNolisxQvdjwdzNjRKzFro1QLjqhBmqQHxJf1w&dib_tag=se&keywords=newtipower+lithium+battery&qid=1749751755&sprefix=newti,aps,140&sr=8-3 You should be able to run your AC for your 12 hours assuing it draws on average 15amps per hour or so.

I replaced two 125ah AGMs at 75lbs each for one of the Newtipower 300ah and it has been night and day. 100lbs less weight and not just more ah capacity but the effective use down to 15% SOC if off the charts.

I was tempted to buy a 2nd Newtipower, but I have no need to. I never get below 83% SOC since the change. I don't have any illusion of running my ACs off my batteries. Even if I had the battery capacity for both ACs, I would rather run my generator for this coach. I have never been anywhere where if it was hot where ACs were needed, I could not run generator. If I were in a place like that, I would just leave and go some place else.

From what you describe the Victron Orion XS 50 amp DC to DC is a must for you. I had bought a Renogy and while it was on order I learned of Orion. So I bought and sold the brand new Renogy never opening the box to get the Orion XS. I do have a thread someplace that covers all of this as I did it over several months by myself one step at a time. Like you, I defied advice a few times because I want what I wanted, not simply what the masses may say.

Thanks for the input. There are some campground that have "quite hours"meaning you are not allowed to run your generator at night ... so no AC ... which is a must to sleep here in FL.

 

[RSKDSK]

You need to remath that.
15 amps AC equals 150 amps DC at 12 VDC
4 hours at best.

My current AC uses about 700-800 watts average steady state .... Maybe I am being optimistic, but I have managed through tougher challenges.

 

[RSKDSK]

maybe easier to consider a large output power station ... that way I could use it on my boat as well to run that AC ...

 

[ducksface]

maybe easier to consider a large output power station ... that way I could use it on my boat as well to run that AC ...

Practical math:
You'll need maybe about 70lbs of battery per hour of real a/c run time.
You need in the ballpark of 200ah per hour of run time at 70lbs+- per battery plus circuits and framing/cage/mounts/tires weight of 200ish pounds to ensure portability.
My not quite adequate inverter is 67lbs plus cabling.



Math killed it.

 

[The Rookie]

Mathemagicians always ruin the party