Alternator charging new 230 AH Lithium house Batt concerns

[ducksface]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08ZDMLMGY?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image

The last five black screens are my chassis battery.

If my monitor is correct it looks like idle vs driving charging is almost the same.
I'm not sure this can be discussed using the old facts.

 

[dkoldman]

Once you have the new batteries installed and get over the initial 'gee whiz' of it all you'll seldom look at these screens. They're being batteries and doing their thing.

These screenshots do not include my dc to dc screens(I still haven't installed the dc to dc...absolutely the easiest install of all...lazy...unneeded)

And
Someone/anyone/everyone who knows better than I;
Please check my settings.

I added the below because those that know less than you demand equal rights. We all get a chance and I insist on getting a ribbon for participation

The picture is my settings for the Victron Smart Shunt, I see a few differences. I read that online manual and tried to make sense of what I could. The 1st few weeks, I watch it like a hawk, you are right I was all about "gee whiz"

But over time, I take the entire system for granted just as if I wanted to make a call from the cellphone. I am never under 85%. Last night we were boondocking at a casino, we have some TV dinners in the freezer, 5 minutes each, we were at 94% SOC and after 4 5 minute sessions we only drop to 92% SOC. Of course the load drop it down lower temporarily, but when microwave stop it went back up.

Th Lithium upgrade is up there with my AGS. I use to worry that since I could not set my AGS Auto Start House Battery voltage higher than 12.5VDC I would have a problem. But I am learning that I never need the AGS to auto start, as they never get close to 12.5vdc.

The DC to DC, is just a faster way to recharge what I do consume from house. When we are out on the , we are driving the RV someplace.

 

[dkoldman]

I am ready to buy the LiFePO4s ( 2 of the 12v 100 Ah with BT) but just a couple of questions to get me off stuck.

I suggest buying one 300ah mini, I have more room & less weight but effectively 3 times more usable capacity. I bought separate bluetooth monitor,

When we do plug into shore power or run the generator wouldn't a charger plugged in to a 110v plug do the same as changing the converter? Just disconnect the converter from charging the batteries or use the charger to top them off.

I bought brand new progressive dynamics converter that allows for all battery profiles and it was plug and play from my OEM converter which was FLA only. The new Converter was $248 and I sold the old one for $100. The new one came with the remote wizard. I view things that connect to the battery like Vair and external chargers as a hassle.

FWIW, my coach has interlock where key must be in accessory position to let slide out, but engine does NOT have to running. But my SOB manual says to run engine when operating slides or jacks. I don't have a Li-BIM, because the 15 minute interval could put me at risk of not having full power when needed.

 

[The Rookie]

LiFePO4 Battery Finder
You can find various LFP batteries and their prices here.

 

[bblamos]

My answers in RED above.

LiFePO4 Battery Finder for battery price comparisons.

Thank you for the reply on my questions. As an update I have received my new LiFePO4 batteries. They are very pretty, so sexy.
I have been working on rebuilding the storage compartment for them. I'll post pics when it is done because it will be a big improvement.
I keep going through various posts on the battery conversion topic and I have learned enough to understand why people make that choices that they do for their battery needs.
The DC - DC charger option is bugging me. I understand that the alternator will only charge the LIs to 80% +- and that the LIs need to get a full balance charge every couple months or so. It seems like most are okay with that and I am as well.
Does the DC-DC charger isolate the house batteries from the chassis battery so that the emergency jump switch is defeated?
I find four positive wires connected to an isolation block under the MH.

One of those must come from the alternator and connect somewhere to the positive side of the house batteries. They are all wrapped together so it's hard to tell what wire goes where. I could start the engine and put a clamp amp meter on them individually at that isolation block to find it. If I do remove the alternator wire from the group connection and run it through a DC - DC charger I don't know if I break that path back to the chassis battery. It seems like it would. The only reason that I would put the DC-DC charger is would be to protect the alternator. I have not read a post that describes an alternator failure caused from charging lithium. Was that an issue in the past?

Thanks again for the input.
Bruce

 

[16ACE27]

I understand that the alternator will only charge the LIs to 80% +-

That's not a true statement. An alternator putting out over 14 VDC will fully charge the LFP batteries. Most alternators put out 14.4 - 14.6 VDC. And yes, alternator lives have been shortened by LFPs drawing excessive charging current - that is the purpose of using either a LI-BIM or DC-DC charger. Installing a DC-DC charger will disable the emergency start feature in most cases.

 

[PS89]

FWIW, on MY particular coach, I'm becoming skeptical about the need for a DC2DC charger. Here's why.

Background:
'18 29M
3x280 (840 total) AHr Eco-Worthy LiFePO4 batteries mounted under the head of the bed
Li-BIM225 installed
Coulomb counter monitoring or voltage, current, and SOC via BT app
1200 W (peak) solar on roof with 60A BougeRV SCC

This past winter, we went on a two month road trip to the Gulf and southern Florida, left Missouri on New Year's Eve. The battery bank state of charge was only about 50% when we hit the road and the day started out with heavy overcast then partial clearing for several hours in the afternoon.

I was able to observe the charging activity from the alternator for the 15 ON/20 OFF cycling until about lunch time when the overcast started to break up. During all of those charging intervals, I never observed more than 55 amps going into the bank. Solar was contributing a little, even with the overcast. The inverter was running to keep the fridges running. It draws about 5 amps as overhead, even when there is no demand. Once the sun came out and solar started producing more than 20A, the LIBIM no longer cycled. I could press the EMER START switch to force it to engage as a test and the charging current into the bank increased by 40-55A during that period indicating the alternator's contribution.

After we got back, I did some experimenting. I depleted the battery bank down to 10%. With all loads off I jumped the EMER START switch and let the engine idle for an hour while watching the current. Never exceeded 55A. Had I been more energetic, I would have pulled the doghouse and shot the alternator with the IR thermometer for more data but that might have to wait.

I'll do some more testing next month. Getting laid up for a while with a hip replacement this week.

As always, YMMV. Just my observations.

Three additional observations:

1) Don't expect your solar to produce anywhere near presumed capacity in January. Even in the Keys, I never saw over 600 watts coming in off the roof. Now, back home in Missouri in early May, I routinely see a little over 800 watts, the limit of my 60A SCC.

2. Do not expect the LiBIM to allow enough total charging to occur to completely recharge a large bank. Simply isn't enough time.

3. If you have operating solar, don't expect anything from the LiBIM. The coach battery voltage is then too high to trigger the electronics to engage it.

 

[ducksface]

2018 24.1 v10

If I ever do install my dc to dc;
The positive and negative of the chassis battery goes to the dc to dc and the dc to dc goes to the positive and negative of the house battery DIRECTLY.
it has nothing to do with any other wiring in my vehicle.

For me the dc to dc will charge as it needs to regardless of the silly and over-the-top time-outs of my bim.

It might only kick in when the bim is off.
It might allow 50a from the chassis battery on top of the 55a from the alternator,as described above, for whatever duration the bim is on.

In this configuration my emergency start will still work.

 

[bblamos]

Perhaps another easy question but, there is charging to the house battery from the alternator when the engine is running and charging from the converter when on shore power or or the generator is running.

The DC to DC charger needs to be between the alternator and the house battery.

If the DC charger input is connected to the battery cables that are normally connected to the house battery and output from the DC charger to the house batteries it would still work would it not? Or is the voltage from the converter not enough to put through the DC to DC charger? It looks like the input voltage for the charger is up to 16 volts but I do not see a minimum voltage.

Maybe less confusing, Is it best to find the cable that is directly from the alternator to the house battery and treat the alternator as a different energy source as one would do with a solar charger?

I decided to get the DC to DC charger because the LiFePO4 battery manual suggests that it be used.

Bruce

 

[Jimbo57]

Not really understanding the whole solar, dc to dc charger, LiBIM ,alternator pros and cons, for the money one put in to create this and the dc to dc charger is a protection of alternator and batteries, isn’t it one of the least expensive items compared to replacing a alternator

 

[The Rookie]

Not really understanding the whole solar, dc to dc charger, LiBIM ,alternator pros and cons, for the money one put in to create this and the dc to dc charger is a protection of alternator and batteries, isn’t it one of the least expensive items compared to replacing a alternator

Although I have a LiBIM. I think the dc to dc Is the probably the best choice. I’m not sure how the dc to dc works exactly, but if the LiBIM battery parameters are correct (chassis >13.4 and house < 13.3), you’ll get 15 minutes of charging every 35 minutes.

 

[dkoldman]

Yall making a DC to DC sound too complicated for such a simple DIY install. Think what a DC to DC can do; and if you want one.... buy it, it only has three wires to connect. Wire #1 on the Chassis Positive post through a fuse block to DC to DC and Wire # 2 out DC to DC to another fuse block to House Battery. Then find a good ground Wire #3 for your DC to DC. Complete your DC to DC setup and you are done.

All the other other stuff can be dealt with separately like Emergency start, LI- BIM, Converter etc. I not sure I even know where my Alternator is on my F-53, never seen it. I am sure if it ever burned up, I could find by the smoke and soot. I joke, but my point is I did not buy my DC to DC to save my Alternator. I bought to get up to 50amps controlled at max on my house batteries while driving. Since my DC to DC install I never drop below 80% SOC on house just by the way I use. It is just awesome. Batteries are a non issue for me with Lithium and my new setup. Cheap too as I spent less than $500 to do the entire thing.

I have no Li-BIM, deactivated my Trombetta, but left it installed so I could easily switch it on if ever needing a jump start. Never had to use but I could. I did buy new Converter, didn't have to, but I wanted a new one with the visible remote to see what it was doing, not to mention the Li Profile to get 100% charge.

 

[bblamos]

Perhaps another easy question but, there is charging to the house battery from the alternator when the engine is running and charging from the converter when on shore power or or the generator is running.

The DC to DC charger needs to be between the alternator and the house battery.

If the DC charger input is connected to the battery cables that are normally connected to the house battery and output from the DC charger to the house batteries it would still work would it not? (nope) Or is the voltage from the converter not enough to put through the DC to DC charger? It looks like the input voltage for the charger is up to 16 volts but I do not see a minimum voltage.

Maybe less confusing, Is it best to find the cable that is directly from the alternator to the house battery and treat the alternator as a different energy source as one would do with a solar charger? (yes)

I decided to get the DC to DC charger because the LiFePO4 battery manual suggests that it be used.

Bruce

Post edit - I see the flaw in my thinking now- I should be mindful of my cognitive capacity when it is getting late into the night.
If the battery terminal connect to the DC-DC charger it will charge just dandy but then the battery is isolated from the house side without a way to use them.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Post edit - I see the flaw in my thinking now- I should be mindful of my cognitive capacity when it is getting late into the night.
If the battery terminal connect to the DC-DC charger it will charge just dandy but then the battery is isolated from the house side without a way to use them.

Re-read dkoldman's post above (#32). He clearly explains the connection between the chassis and house batteries as well as fusing.