Anyone Upgrade Aria Inverter?

[LDK]

Hello. Wanted to see if anyone has upgraded the ME2012 inverter on their Aria? Am "considering" an upgrade (watts, pure sine) and hoping to learn from other's experiences. Thank you.

 

[m1noel]

Ours was upgraded to the MS2012 because of the issues with the GFI. It should help extend the life of the fridge and other electronics according to the info I got from Magnum. Also, no more GFI issues. I don't think going bigger would help too much, at least with the stock battery bank. It will run the stuff we need it to. Going bigger without need will use a little more battery power.
Mike

 

[LDK]

Thanks Mike. Had read your GFI situation and remedy from past posts. Fortunately, have not experienced GFI issues in my 2019.

I have upgraded battery bank to 936Ah along with 1200 watts solar. Our first 2 month trip exploring AZ, UT, CO, we spent ~85% of our time boondocking and the upgrades proved quite nice. The inverter proved workable though limiting.

 

[MrPalazzo]

While I'm sure some may say that a 'pure' sine is 'better', we've had a ME2012 for 5 years in our Palazzo with no problems with the fridge, or microwave, or anything else 120v that runs from the inverter - and that's a LOT of off-grid time on the inverter, too.

'Why' would you feel the need to replace a perfectly good inverter? Problems? Symptoms? Issues?

 

[jtyphoid]

You probably already know this, but going to a higher wattage inverter/charger will likely require heavier gauge wire between it and the battery bank. It may also require more 120v circuits to take advantage of the additional power.

It would only be a modest increase in power, but you might be able to swap out to a MS2812 without having to make wiring changes on the 12v and 120v sides.

 

[LDK]

While I'm sure some may say that a 'pure' sine is 'better', we've had a ME2012 for 5 years in our Palazzo with no problems with the fridge, or microwave, or anything else 120v that runs from the inverter - and that's a LOT of off-grid time on the inverter, too.

'Why' would you feel the need to replace a perfectly good inverter? Problems? Symptoms? Issues?

Thank you TurnerFam. Have read your past counsel on this topic. Reasons am considering a change: based on our usage 2000 watts has not proven sufficient at times; am in the camp pure sine is the way to go though would not make the change if that was the only reason; am taking advantage of the 30% solar system tax credit this year.

 

[LDK]

You probably already know this, but going to a higher wattage inverter/charger will likely require heavier gauge wire between it and the battery bank. It may also require more 120v circuits to take advantage of the additional power.

It would only be a modest increase in power, but you might be able to swap out to a MS2812 without having to make wiring changes on the 12v and 120v sides.

Thank you. I called Magnum for their insights. They suggested the MS2812 due to ease of the upgrade (same size, same input power, same connections).

Based on reading the Aria specs, ME2012 and MS2812 (along with MSH3012) manuals, the wiring between inverter/batteries will need to be changed from existing 2/0 to 4/0 (possibly x2 due to distance). I need to look further if the existing fuse needs changed (assuming so).

Am considering whether would add any additional appliances to run off the inverter. I am working through if the increase from 2000 to 2800-3000 will do the trick. My solar guy suggested 4000.

I am intrigued by the hybrid MSH3012, but question whether would take enough advantage of the capabilities versus additional install complexities/cost.

 

[MrPalazzo]

I think the ME2012 is a 30amp output, though I doubt we would ever come close to that while on the Inverter... since only the Fridge and the microwave would be the 'normal' draws, though TVs, receivers, device chargers, and electric fans would be the others... I don't know with all that that I've ever tripped a breaker while on the Inverter, or for sure never tripped the Inverter's own breaker, as I'm aware that the inverter's purpose is not to necessarily always power everything we are accustomed to while on 'full' Shore or Gen power - of course, the air conditioners and electric water heater are not run thru the inverter, anyway... BUT, I guess it never hurts to have more capability as long as you have the BATTERY STORAGE to make a difference, otherwise you are simply creating a scenario where you have more AMPS, thru the inverter, but have to run the Generator more OFTEN to make up for it.

 

[jtyphoid]

I think the ME2012 is a 30amp output, though I doubt we would ever come close to that while on the Inverter...

I believe that the 30 amp rating for the ME2012 and MS2012 are for pass through when on shore power. They only provide 17 or so amps 2000 watts) when inverting from battery.

 

[MrPalazzo]

right, as the 'pass thru' of 120v SHore or Gen power is to the 'sub panel' of branch circuits that the Inverter feeds when it is ON and providing the power when Shore and Gen is not available, but only up to it's 'wattage' output, of course - though that really helps make my point even more, as 17amps doesn't 'seem' like much, at first, until you realize that only certain 120v 'smaller draw' devices and appliances use the Inverter's power.
You could certainly plug in a 1500w electric heater, or two, and quickly sap your battery's power, or trip a breaker or two, but those are rare situations and usually not the 'norm' for Inverter usage.
I'm not aware of what other appliances might be used with the Inverter, unless someone is thinking of an induction Stove top, which probably is not a good candidate for the inverter, anyway, with it's large electrical draw... though maybe some do use it for that, if it's wired thru an inverter circuit.

Using the Inverter is a similar experience to using both the Generator, which is generally less overall power than you have with 50amp Shore power, or even Shore power itself, as it's always 'possible' to trip breakers and/or overload circuits by overuse, no matter 'what' power supply you are making use of. I guess making a large investment in increasing your Inverter output from 2000 to 2800 might make sense, but it sure seems like a lot for such a small difference. Entegra, now a Thor company, actually makes use of TWO Inverters in some of their larger coaches, to basically combat the same 'problem' that you may be experiencing. Of course, they would have two different sets of House batteries, too, with the separate wiring to individual sub-panels, as well. Maybe another way to solve the problem, or maybe a much larger single Inverter would be a better way to go... each manufacturer makes that decision. : )

 

[LDK]

Thank you all for the insights thus far. Please keep it coming.

Speaking of batteries, am exploring how to improve charging of my 936Ah bank when not on shore power. Feel am falling short of fully charging the batteries. Considerations thus far:
- the solar controller and charger may need config changes to align to battery manufacturer charging recommendations. Example Rolls recommends 15.0V for Bulk & Absorption charging versus currently set at 14.6V.
- wiring between solar controller (and charger) and batteries may be insufficient. Particularly given the distance between the batteries and controller (and charger). House batteries are on driver side; solar controller and charger are on passenger side. Dont see a good option to get them closer together.
- a potential upgrade of existing inverter/charger would include an increase in charging from 100 to 125 (or more) amps.
- add TBD solar panels.
- increase use of 8K watt generator though hoping other options make it not necessary.

Any suggestions to consider, please do share. Thank you.

 

[HaRVey-THOR]

LDK - I swapped the ME2012 for a MS2812 which took about 30 minutes. I changed to the MS because many of my wife's appliances would not work on the ME. I went to the MS2812 for future expansion ability. The ME2012 and now MS2812 only provides power to the subpanel and not the main. The MS2812 is quite a bit heavier, so wrestling it in place is the hardest part.
I also added solar and upgraded to Battleborn LiFePo batteries, and Magnum said the 2/0 cables were fine because it's only ~2' run and I'm not using the full potential of the inverter. I will upgrade the cables to 4/0 when I rewire to add a cutoff switch and Vitron BMS.

 

[LDK]

LDK - I swapped the ME2012 for a MS2812 which took about 30 minutes. I changed to the MS because many of my wife's appliances would not work on the ME. I went to the MS2812 for future expansion ability. The ME2012 and now MS2812 only provides power to the subpanel and not the main. The MS2812 is quite a bit heavier, so wrestling it in place is the hardest part.
I also added solar and upgraded to Battleborn LiFePo batteries, and Magnum said the 2/0 cables were fine because it's only ~2' run and I'm not using the full potential of the inverter. I will upgrade the cables to 4/0 when I rewire to add a cutoff switch and Vitron BMS.

Helpful info. Thank you. The 30 minute swap sounds wonderful. Correct to assume the MS2812 fit in the same spot and had same connections as ME2012? Even firefly system all worked fine by just disconnecting and reconnecting inverter wiring?

 

[HaRVey-THOR]

Helpful info. Thank you. The 30 minute swap sounds wonderful. Correct to assume the MS2812 fit in the same spot and had same connections as ME2012? Even firefly system all worked fine by just disconnecting and reconnecting inverter wiring?

Yes, the MS2812 fits in exactly same spot, uses the same fasteners and exact same wiring.
The MS2812 insulation manual recommends adding a jumper wire from the used to unused (my Palazzo only uses one of the two available inverter circuits) hot and neutral 110 wiring lugs, but when I called Magnum, they said it's not nessesary, so I did not. And yes, everything worked perfectly afterwards without any changes and the Firefly panel reflected the new inverter model number.
I unplugged the coach, put it in Store mode, disconnected the Chassis batteries and disconnected the House batteries, all before swapping the inverter.

 

[LDK]

Nice! Thank you.

 

[aznytfury]

Ours was upgraded to the MS2012 because of the issues with the GFI. It should help extend the life of the fridge and other electronics according to the info I got from Magnum. Also, no more GFI issues. I don't think going bigger would help too much, at least with the stock battery bank. It will run the stuff we need it to. Going bigger without need will use a little more battery power.
Mike

I am having the same issue with the GFI outlets...who did you work with @ Thor to get the Inverter swapped? I am trying to do the same thing. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[aznytfury]

Thanks Mike. Had read your GFI situation and remedy from past posts. Fortunately, have not experienced GFI issues in my 2019.

I have upgraded battery bank to 936Ah along with 1200 watts solar. Our first 2 month trip exploring AZ, UT, CO, we spent ~85% of our time boondocking and the upgrades proved quite nice. The inverter proved workable though limiting.

Would you mind sharing more info on how you went about upgrading the solar? Did you use the existing wiring that penetrates the roof or did you have to run new wiring? Did you need to upgrade the solar controller to support the higher capacity?

 

[HaRVey-THOR]

aznytfury - I'll respond to both of your questions.
1) I worked with Jason Treadway at Thor with my inverter due to failed/burned electronics and other digital controlled motor appliances which Magnum tech support identified as due to the ME2012 inverter. I had already replaces and upgraded before calling Thor, but after I sent pictures of the damage, they gave me $500 towards it (equivalent to their cost for the ME2012), not what it cost me for my new one but better than nothing.
2) I also added new solar, but did not use/add to the factory solar/controller/wire because both were too small for what I was adding (max for factory solar wire and controller is ~400 watts). I installed a new 680W MPPT system for the house batteries and moved the output of the factory 100W PWM system to the chassis batteries to maintain them.

 

[powerboatr]

our 2012 burned up last year, actually it FAILED hard
so we replaced it with the upgrade pure sine wave, easy as cake
plus magnums tech line was super helpful to make sure everything went perfect


the relay got stuck and caused a/c back feed ( both sides of wiring was hot)

 

[LDK]

Would you mind sharing more info on how you went about upgrading the solar? Did you use the existing wiring that penetrates the roof or did you have to run new wiring? Did you need to upgrade the solar controller to support the higher capacity?

To support 1200 watt system: ran 6awg wiring from roof; added 100 amp MPPT controller. Kept factory 10awg wiring and 30 amp controller in case want to leverage such as to maintain chassis batteries. Tossed the factory 100 watt panel as would rather use roof space for something better. The system has been a nice add, though I am not sure it is the best design.