Best Buy on Lithium Batteries Today

[DavidEM]

I follow this forum and a boating forum, Trawlerforum.com. Both have similar discussions about Li batteries, albeit the TF one is a bit more techie. They just started a thread on the best low cost Li batteries, so I thought I would start a similar one here.

A couple of the more important considerations, in addition to price, is the ability to fit two batteries in the entry step compartment and the other is freeze protection. The LiTime battery listed here meets both of those specs and is pretty cheap. See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKN4YM5...LC06SQ2O&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I have looked at the specs of a dozen or so Li batteries and many of them may say Group 31 size, but few of them really are. This one is and even though you have to dig through the listing to find it, here are the dimensions and they really are G31: 13”L x 6.77”W x 8.5” H. These with a bit of juggling will fit in the under step compartment of my Axis and presumably others with the under step compartment.

They also have low temperature cutoff, a feature missing on most low cost Li batteries until recently. Charging Li batteries at much below freezing will ruin them.

Compared with my original pair of 100 Ah AGMs, this battery pair offers close to three times as much usable power: 2x140=280 Ahs vs 2x100x0.5=100 Ahs. I could easily dry camp for a week with a pair of these.

And Will Prowse seems to like them.

Any other real deals out there?

David

 

[ducksface]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CNVBL5T...94ZP8U2L&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_ii
Bluetooth included.

$154 each with coupon.
Another 5% off if you buy two.
5% back on the Amazon card.
$139ish net net price each.
That's $278 for 200ah Bluetooth lithium.
And
They should fit right in an axis/Vegas stairwell with no added anything needed.

Add this.
https://www.amazon.com/Camperxlite-...2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfbXRm&psc=1
To any battery without an ineternal heater(kinda silly)if you KNOW you'll be running in very low temps.

Low temp cutoff is a fine thing if you think you'll be charging batteries at less than the prescribed temp.
It used to be 32f.
I think the technology is now allowing for considerably lower temps.with a programmable shunt you can go lots lower
https://www.relionbattery.com/knowl...s have significantly more,be reduced to 0.05C.

 

[Mark54]

I follow this forum and a boating forum, Trawlerforum.com. Both have similar discussions about Li batteries, albeit the TF one is a bit more techie. They just started a thread on the best low cost Li batteries, so I thought I would start a similar one here.

A couple of the more important considerations, in addition to price, is the ability to fit two batteries in the entry step compartment and the other is freeze protection. The LiTime battery listed here meets both of those specs and is pretty cheap. See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKN4YM5...LC06SQ2O&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I have looked at the specs of a dozen or so Li batteries and many of them may say Group 31 size, but few of them really are. This one is and even though you have to dig through the listing to find it, here are the dimensions and they really are G31: 13”L x 6.77”W x 8.5” H. These with a bit of juggling will fit in the under step compartment of my Axis and presumably others with the under step compartment.

They also have low temperature cutoff, a feature missing on most low cost Li batteries until recently. Charging Li batteries at much below freezing will ruin them.

Compared with my original pair of 100 Ah AGMs, this battery pair offers close to three times as much usable power: 2x140=280 Ahs vs 2x100x0.5=100 Ahs. I could easily dry camp for a week with a pair of these.

And Will Prowse seems to like them.

Any other real deals out there?

David

$2/Ah is pretty good. I paid $3/Ah for my Weize 300Ah batteries 2 yrs ago, and also went with Will Prowse's reviews on that brand.

6000 cycles is good too. If you can keep at 20-80% SOC, they will live the longest, so be sure to watch your battery monitor. Try not to let them get too hot or too cold as well.

Built in BMS is a plus- mine have low and high temp shutoff.

I moved mine inside my Tellaro 20L for better management- remove in winter in VT and maintain with an I/C eevry 3 months. (60-100-60% SOC)
https://www.weizeus.com/products/we...hium-battery-up-to-8000-deep-cycles-smart-bms
Sold out!

 

[DavidEM]

The Relion’s blurb about low temperature charging was interesting. Below 32F the charging current must be reduced to 0.1C and below 14F further reduced to 0.05C.

In our climate in Raleigh, NC, 14F is rare but possible. So stick with .05C or 14 amps with the pair of 140 Ah LiTime batteries. Since our 100 watt solar panel never gets above 6 amps, that rule of thumb is a good back up to the low temp disconnect feature.

David

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

$2/Ah is pretty good. I paid $3/Ah for my Weize 300Ah batteries 2 yrs ago, and also went with Will Prowse's reviews on that brand.

6000 cycles is good too. If you can keep at 20-80% SOC, they will live the longest, so be sure to watch your battery monitor. Try not to let them get too hot or too cold as well.

Built in BMS is a plus- mine have low and high temp shutoff.

I moved mine inside my Tellaro 20L for better management- remove in winter in VT and maintain with an I/C eevry 3 months. (60-100-60% SOC)
WEIZE 8000 Deep Cycle LiFePO4 Lithium Battery 300Ah with BMS
Sold out!

Will Prowse put out a video recently to relieve the anxiety and fear of shortening the life of LiFePO4 batteries and getting full use of them... just FULLY charge them and use their FULL capacity... that's what you paid for. IMO, the whole point of getting away from lead -acid is to ditch the 50% usage limit. In simple terms, if you're USING the battery on a regular basis, go ahead and use FULL capacity of charging and discharging. However, if STORING long term - like 6 months of longer - keep the charge lower, typically between 50% to 80%.

 

[Mark54]

Will Prowse put out a video recently to relieve the anxiety and fear of shortening the life of LiFePO4 batteries and getting full use of them... just FULLY charge them and use their FULL capacity... that's what you paid for. IMO, the whole point of getting away from lead -acid is to ditch the 50% usage limit. In simple terms, if you're USING the battery on a regular basis, go ahead and use FULL capacity of charging and discharging. However, if STORING long term - like 6 months of longer - keep the charge lower, typically between 50% to 80%.

It is nearly impossible to monitor the 20-80% idea, so I do generally use them to the max when out camping.

The EV has a setting I can adjust, but not the RV power systems.

I'll never see even 5000 cycles while I own this rig most likely anyways!
I also have a Mean Green electric mower with a 7kW battery- can't really pay attention to SOC when mowing 3 acres, and store inside mower at 50-70% SOC, disconnected, in cold temps, but still mows like crazy when summer hits. No worries.
Same with all my Li-ion powered tools.
Just don't charge below freezing!

 

[ducksface]

Cycle life is something we at out our
Age
And
Average rv ownership time.
Need no worry of.


I'm glad we as a bit of a group are finally combating the werewolf type tales about lithium batteries.

So much
'My dad said in the 1960's'
And even
'I read in 2006'
Has infiltrated the lithium truths
That is is hard to get a correct education
And it seems to be even harder to pass it on when you do find the
real and today truths.

 

[PS89]

As for cost, I paid about $1.40/AH for the 3 big 280 AH from Eco-Worthy via eBay. Seems like a bargain at the current prices.

Of course, they're not going to fit in one of those under stair mounting locations.

 

[Beau388]

Considering there are three main packaging system of lithium batteries and at least three different chemistries, there is considerable info that is applicable to only ONE type of package and chemistry, but wrongly considered applicable all types of lithium batteries. The chemistry of a cobalt cathode lithium-ion battery is entirely different from an iron cathode lithium iron phosphate battery. Even the cell voltages are different.


For RV use, the LFP batteries are consider best because of their chemistry. The electrical considerations of LFP batteries are well noted on this forum and are important if used in conjunction with LA starting batteries.


For me, packaging and physical size were the most important items in choosing a house battery. This is because of the location and physical size of my coach's battery compartment. I did not want wiring strung around the coach or having to manually configure or isolate anything. Thanks to the many contributors of this forum, I was able to achieve my wants.

 

[The Rookie]

I’m a newer RV owner. Just reading the wealth of information in these discussions makes it pretty clear that moving to LFP is the way to go. Transitioning to coach LFP isn’t in the cards right now, but definitely something I would want to look into in the spring.

My plan for that is nonexistent. Are incremental upgrades advisable, ex: BIRD-> Li-BIM, converter upgrade, etc?

 

[16ACE27]

I’m a newer RV owner. Just reading the wealth of information in these discussions makes it pretty clear that moving to LFP is the way to go. Transitioning to coach LFP isn’t in the cards right now, but definitely something I would want to look into in the spring.

My plan for that is nonexistent. Are incremental upgrades advisable, ex: BIRD-> Li-BIM, converter upgrade, etc?

Lotsa info on this Forum site about the upgrade. You don't have to do everything at once, or even at all.

Start with the batteries.
Buy a 20 amp LFP charger to top them off when plugged in.
You don't need to worry about the BIRD/BIM/DC-DC charger unless you have drained the batteries low before traveling. Both a BIRD and BIM can be wired with a "cutoff" switch on the control side to prevent alternator overheating.
Add/upgrade as you can/need to.

 

[Beau388]

I’m a newer RV owner. Just reading the wealth of information in these discussions makes it pretty clear that moving to LFP is the way to go. Transitioning to coach LFP isn’t in the cards right now, but definitely something I would want to look into in the spring.

My plan for that is nonexistent. Are incremental upgrades advisable, ex: BIRD-> Li-BIM, converter upgrade, etc?

First try to imagine what you want the house batteries to do. To you plan to spend several days dry camping at the beach, on BLM land, where sun is generally available. Do you want to park under trees or in national or state forest campsites where there is no power? Do you expect to use the coach in below freezing temperatures? Do you often "mooch camp"? Do you want a fully automatic system or would you mind having to throw a couple switches or remove a couple of plugs? Do you travel to conventions and RV rallies? Do you plan to stay at full hook-up campgrounds most of the time? These are some of the questions you need to ask yourself in trying to size and automate the house battery conversion.


You need to envision the final system before you start tring to change anything. I learned that in engineering school and it has worked well in all my endeavors.

 

[The Rookie]

Lotsa info on this Forum site about the upgrade. You don't have to do everything at once, or even at all.

Start with the batteries.
Buy a 20 amp LFP charger to top them off when plugged in.
You don't need to worry about the BIRD/BIM/DC-DC charger unless you have drained the batteries low before traveling. Both a BIRD and BIM can be wired with a "cutoff" switch on the control side to prevent alternator overheating.
Add/upgrade as you can/need to.

Excellent info thanks

 

[The Rookie]

First try to imagine what you want the house batteries to do. To you plan to spend several days dry camping at the beach, on BLM land, where sun is generally available. Do you want to park under trees or in national or state forest campsites where there is no power? Do you expect to use the coach in below freezing temperatures? Do you often "mooch camp"? Do you want a fully automatic system or would you mind having to throw a couple switches or remove a couple of plugs? Do you travel to conventions and RV rallies? Do you plan to stay at full hook-up campgrounds most of the time? These are some of the questions you need to ask yourself in trying to size and automate the house battery conversion.


You need to envision the final system before you start tring to change anything. I learned that in engineering school and it has worked well in all my endeavors.

Good advice. I’ll do some thinking about this amd reengage the forum.

 

[John & Diane]

Following for future reference.

 

[ipburnout]

Curious about batteries with built in BMS. Victron MPPT tells you to connect batteries before solar, otherwise you can damage the charger. What happens when the BMS disconnects the batteries? Wouldn't that be equally bad for the MPPT charger?

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Curious about batteries with built in BMS. Victron MPPT tells you to connect batteries before solar, otherwise you can damage the charger. What happens when the BMS disconnects the batteries? Wouldn't that be equally bad for the MPPT charger?

Great point. However I have discharged my lithium bank to total cutoff (three parallel batteries) at least twice. Solar was still connected, but batteries were all snoring in sleep mode.

A tap of the e-start switch connected them to the chassis battery via the BIM-225 and they started charging immediately from solar. No harm done.

Also, when the batteries are fully charged the BMS cuts off charging. What happens then?? I say BS. My motorhome sits all winter with batteries being charged by solar. There's no drain on the batteries, so where do the electrons go? I think they're shed through the heat sink on the controller.

 

[The Rookie]

IDK the quality of Weize batteries, but I thought it interesting that their 100ah Li battery is inly $20 more than their 100ah AGM battery on Amazoon.

 

[JeffThor325]

This thread (as well as others on this forum) is timely because starting a phased-in switchover from AGM to lithium is a near-future project for me. I will likely start the first phase within the next few weeks.

 

[DavidEM]

This thread (as well as others on this forum) is timely because starting a phased-in switchover from AGM to lithium is a near-future project for me. I will likely start the first phase within the next few weeks.

Just be careful and consider the possibility of overheating your chassis alternator with the new Li batteries and make provisions to protect it. Two common ways are the Precision Circuits Li BIM225 and a DC to DC charger.

David