Best Buy on Lithium Batteries Today

I noticed the Oases Energy on Amazon and figured it was a relabel. I did not see the Bluetooth connectivity which I like since you can monitor different aspects of the battery including the charge rate, cell equalization, turn battery on/off, etc. Plus it is a bunch more numbers to look at!

A couple of other thoughts came to mind. The battery description states that they aren't starting batteries. I was wondering if anyone has started 1) Their generator (I have an Onan QG 4000) and 2) Their RV using the emergency start button (I have a Ford E350 with V8 gasoline engine).

I didn't notice the ones you linked had the Bluetooth BMSs - that's the reason they are more expensive.

You will have no issue starting the generator - it's on a 100 amp breaker and each of those batteries is good for 100 amps continuous.

Even with FLA batteries, the Emergency Start will not start the chassis engine through the connecting solenoid only. It is a "boost/charge" feature. Depending on how dead the chassis battery is you may have to hold that Emergency Start switch a long time to put enough energy nack into the chassis battery to start the engine.

When my chassis battery died at a gas station, I ended up starting the generator (I had FLA house batteries at the time) and running it for about 15 minutes to get enough charge in the chassis battery to be able to start the engine with the help of the house batteries and converter.

So, you'll likely have the same experience with the two LFP batteries.
 
Over the past week I have installed a lithium battery system to provide 120VAC power while boondocking. That's 99% of our camping.
System consists of a DC-DC 60A charger with power supplied from the starter battery while the engine is running. The charger has its own isolator that is triggered by the D+ signal from the alternator. The DC-DC charger charges an EcoWorthy 280Ah battery I located under the sink. From there the battery supplies a 3000W inverter. I have 360W of solar panels on the roof.

My chassis is a Sprinter and MB recommends no more than 80A from the alternator be used for "house" things. 60A is no problem all day long, although it would only be producing that for a little less than 5 hours at most and generally we use less than 75Ah per day so only a bit over an hour in most cases.

For now the system will not be powering the whole house. I have a power bar plugged into the inverter that will power Starlink, laptop charging and some electric cooking appliances. Eventually I plan to run a 120VAC wire to the shore power connections on the Trombette auto-switch. The house lights and 12V charge ports are still powered by the house AGMs in the stairwell that will easily last a week. I believe they only draw 15A from the alternator with the engine running. I'm still trying to understand the Thor electrics.

Some addition comments regarding lithium batteries in RVs/vans. In the past three years we have spent about 800 nights in a Sprinter van with lithium battery system. All electric. Fridge, induction stove, composting toilet with 24/7 fan running, insta-pot everything. The batteries have been on for the entire 3 years, almost 1200 charge cycles. The three 100Ah Renogy batteries have degraded about 2%. They got charged to 100% every day unless we have a bunch of cloudy days and rarely get below 35% SOC.

The DC-DC chargers have two functions. One is to protect the alternator and the other is to provide the correct charging profile for you batteries. Charging a lithium with a AGM profile is not a bad thing, just not the best thing.
 

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I noticed the Oases Energy on Amazon and figured it was a relabel. I did not see the Bluetooth connectivity which I like since you can monitor different aspects of the battery including the charge rate, cell equalization, turn battery on/off, etc. Plus it is a bunch more numbers to look at!

A couple of other thoughts came to mind. The battery description states that they aren't starting batteries. I was wondering if anyone has started 1) Their generator (I have an Onan QG 4000) and 2) Their RV using the emergency start button (I have a Ford E350 with V8 gasoline engine).
An Onan QG 4000 needs about 50 amps @ 13 volts to crank. Your Ford V-10 needs about 250 amps @ 13 volts. All that is easily done if you have LFP BMS(s) of that or greater amperage and your wiring can handle that much amperage.
Generally the house batteries are used to charge a dying chassis battery and not a completely dead chassis battery.
 
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When my chassis battery died at a gas station, I ended up starting the generator (I had FLA house batteries at the time) and running it for about 15 minutes to get enough charge in the chassis battery to be able to start the engine with the help of the house batteries and converter.

So, you'll likely have the same experience with the two LFP batteries.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I would have just pushed the button and turned the key and nothing would have happened.

Over the past week I have installed a lithium battery system to provide 120VAC power while boondocking. That's 99% of our camping.

System consists of a DC-DC 60A charger with power supplied from the starter battery while the engine is running. The charger has its own isolator that is triggered by the D+ signal from the alternator. The DC-DC charger charges an EcoWorthy 280Ah battery I located under the sink. From there the battery supplies a 3000W inverter. I have 360W of solar panels on the roof.

I'm still trying to understand the Thor electrics.

Some addition comments regarding lithium batteries in RVs/vans. In the past three years we have spent about 800 nights in a Sprinter van with lithium battery system. All electric. Fridge, induction stove, composting toilet with 24/7 fan running, insta-pot everything. The batteries have been on for the entire 3 years, almost 1200 charge cycles. The three 100Ah Renogy batteries have degraded about 2%. They got charged to 100% every day unless we have a bunch of cloudy days and rarely get below 35% SOC.

I am not used to those all electric kitchens. I did just get a Starlink Mini and it is my biggest power user at 30W average. With a gas fridge, stove, and heater, and rarely using the AC, my electrical needs are minimal. The two 80AH VRLA batteries used to last three days. I am looking forward to the lithium batteries. But I will check the charging amp draw on the VRLAs before I change them out.

Thanks to everyone for your comments. It saves a lot of rework and expense.
 
See comments in bold below:


Over the past week I have installed a lithium battery system to provide 120VAC power while boondocking. That's 99% of our camping.
System consists of a DC-DC 60A charger with power supplied from the starter battery while the engine is running. The charger has its own isolator that is triggered by the D+ signal from the alternator. The DC-DC charger charges an EcoWorthy 280Ah battery I located under the sink. From there the battery supplies a 3000W inverter. I have 360W of solar panels on the roof.

My chassis is a Sprinter and MB recommends no more than 80A from the alternator be used for "house" things. 60A is no problem all day long, although it would only be producing that for a little less than 5 hours at most and generally we use less than 75Ah per day so only a bit over an hour in most cases.Good plan. Do you know what is the maximum rating of the MB alternator. It would be interesting to check the alternators case temp with an IR gun when it is putting out 60A to make cure it stays below 225F.

For now the system will not be powering the whole house. I have a power bar plugged into the inverter that will power Starlink, laptop charging and some electric cooking appliances. Eventually I plan to run a 120VAC You did mean 12V, right?wire to the shore power connections on the Trombette auto-switch. The house lights and 12V charge ports are still powered by the house AGMs in the stairwell that will easily last a week. I believe they only draw 15A from the alternator with the engine running. I'm still trying to understand the Thor electrics.

Some addition comments regarding lithium batteries in RVs/vans. In the past three years we have spent about 800 nights in a Sprinter van with lithium battery system. All electric. Fridge, induction stove, composting toilet with 24/7 fan running, insta-pot everything. The batteries have been on for the entire 3 years, almost 1200 charge cycles. The three 100Ah Renogy batteries have degraded about 2%. They got charged to 100% every day unless we have a bunch of cloudy days and rarely get below 35% SOC.

The DC-DC chargers have two functions. One is to protect the alternator and the other is to provide the correct charging profile for you batteries. Charging a lithium with a AGM profile is not a bad thing, just not the best thing.
 
I agree - no heaters.

LiTime have gained a good reputation but those are the same batteries with a different label as the $99 "Black Friday" sale:


And the two I purchased for $136 each:

71JI+LKo7UL._AC_SX679_.jpg


BTW, when I tested those two batteries, I got 109 AH from one and 110 AH from the other.


Nice! They are getting something cheap!
 
See comments in bold below:

The standard MB alternator used with the V6 diesel is rated at 220A. MB builder guidelines suggest that no more than 80A be drawn off it for user added items, like charging house batteries. No need to monitor alternator temperature as I have been running this same set up on my 2019 Sprinter van for the past 3 years without problems.

We rarely, like once in 3 years use shore power, so I will disconnect the shore power incoming wires and and connect the inverter 120VAC output wires in their place. The transfer switch doesn't care where the 120VAC comes from, only that electrons are flowing. That way I will have use of all the 120VAC devices in my RV.
Caveat: I don't fully understand the RV electrical system yet so this might not be doable, but the shore power has to connect to the house system somewhere and where it does is where I will tie into with inverter 120VAC output.
 
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3) If I use a DC to DC charger it doesn't seem to me that I will be able to charge my chassis battery from the coach battery/converter/solar/generator. Is that correct?

I noticed that no one really answered this question in my comment. I don't think that a DC to DC charger is bidirectional but maybe it is.
 
I noticed that no one really answered this question in my comment. I don't think that a DC to DC charger is bidirectional but maybe it is.
The one I have is single way, but multi voltage.. The way it works is: It takes the incoming DC current using a oscillator circuit turns the current into AC. For instance, like 12.0 volts and 55 amps The AC current goes into a standard transformer where the output is 20 volts and 60 amps AC. Now, the AC goes into an inverter where the voltage is set for charging a particular type of battery, say LFP, so the output voltage is 14.4 volts at 39 amps DC.

Thus, you start with 660 watts in and get 561 watts out. The rest of the wattage is heat and the current to operate the internal fan. For me, I taped into the ignition circuit, so the DC to DC charger only works while the ignition is on. The charger did not have such a port, so I had to use another 50 amp relay to isolate the charger from the chassis battery.
 
I noticed that no one really answered this question in my comment. I don't think that a DC to DC charger is bidirectional but maybe it is.

I had purposely avoided the question because you seem to have a good grasp of what you want to do and you have lots of opinions above. I did not wish to detract.

But with door open, I would say the answer to your question is No. A well designed DC 2 DC will have an input source that is presumed to be a starter battery and one output that is presumed to connect to a House bank. A fancier DC 2 DC may additionally have 2nd input for MPPT.

Now the techs in regard to my Victron DC2DC. The connection between the Starter and House battery is always open (Off) until my starter battery shows a sudden voltage increases. The levels can be programmed as to when to turn on charging and when to turn off the charging.

Now with all of that said, I can't think of a reason or fascination with charging a starter battery? I take that back if you have Tellaro or Mercedes chassis from what I read; but why drain your house batteries down if your starter battery is low?
 
Now with all of that said, I can't think of a reason or fascination with charging a starter battery? I take that back if you have Tellaro or Mercedes chassis from what I read; but why drain your house batteries down if your starter battery is low?

That's a best case scenario for a Battery Isolation Manager (BIM) who's primary purpose is to prevent the chassis battery voltage from dropping below a pre-programmed set point. There's obviously more to it than that, but in brief, it's just another tool for battery management.
 
That's a best case scenario for a Battery Isolation Manager (BIM) who's primary purpose is to prevent the chassis battery voltage from dropping below a pre-programmed set point. There's obviously more to it than that, but in brief, it's just another tool for battery management.

I see better on this point. I have been slow to see because #1, my unit does not have a BIM at least in the sense of of the Thorcites, and #2 the features of the said BIM to extend beyond just mere battery isolation.

Regardless, I cannot see or agree with the real world value of a need to have the starter battery automatically draw from the house bank? One bad problem should not lead to two bad problems. In my view, the reason for the momentary Aux switch is to avoid such catastrophes.

Besides, even though my AGS is no longer activating the generator to recharge the house batter due to the recent increase to 300ah lithium capacity, it still can kick off genny if my house starter battery drops too low. But what on earth would cause a starter battery to drain down is my block? I recently added a headlight alarm if I mistakenly leave on the headlights. I guess it is possible if a catalytic converter thief activates my siren alarm and continues to steal the converter.... the alarm could drain down some, but after 15 minutes or so it would stop.
 
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Now with all of that said, I can't think of a reason or fascination with charging a starter battery? I take that back if you have Tellaro or Mercedes chassis from what I read; but why drain your house batteries down if your starter battery is low?

Regardless, I cannot see or agree with the real world value of a need to have the starter battery automatically draw from the house bank? One bad problem should not lead to two bad problems. In my view, the reason for the momentary Aux switch is to avoid such catastrophes.

Besides, even though my AGS is no longer activating the generator to recharge the house batter due to the recent increase to 300ah lithium capacity, it still can kick off genny if my house starter battery drops too low. But what on earth would cause a starter battery to drain down is my block? I recently added a headlight alarm if I mistakenly leave on the headlights. I guess it is possible if a catalytic converter thief activates my siren alarm and continues to steal the converter.... the alarm could drain down some, but after 15 minutes or so it would stop.

Thanks for the replies. I doubt that I have ever needed the chassis (starter) battery to be charged from the coach batteries but it might have been occurring in the background, especially during storage from the solar.

So I will install my new LFP batteries, new converter charging board for LFP/LA batteries, change my solar charger setting to LFP, and check the alternator output. If it is too high then I will pull out the BIRD and install a DC to DC charger. It seems like a more reliable way (i.e. current can't go over the input rating of the DC to DC charger) to limit the alternator current than a Li-BIM225.
 
Regardless, I cannot see or agree with the real world value of a need to have the starter battery automatically draw from the house bank? One bad problem should not lead to two bad problems. In my view, the reason for the momentary Aux switch is to avoid such catastrophes.

The BIM connection scenario is voltage dependent. It will not connect if the house batteries are below a threshold. It doesn't simply connect on a timed basis.
 
The BIM connection scenario is voltage dependent. It will not connect if the house batteries are below a threshold. It doesn't simply connect on a timed basis.


Okay make some sense, but make it functional to understand it's value?

i.e. are you saying that a LI-BIM will notice if the Starter Battery FLA/AGM is less than 12.5vdc and automatically allow reverse charging from House Battery Lithium if the House bank is over 13.2 vdc?

You plug in real values if my guesses are off.

Note: Assuming the above principal is true, if I wanted that functionality, all I have to do is turn on my AGS (which I do) and thus far in 5 plus years, I have never had my genny start due to low voltage on Starter Battery. Additionally, if I had a low battery and say my AGS was not in Auto Mode, all I would need to do is Hold Aux switch.

I point is to not take away from the true need of a LI-BIM, but shed light on that perceived value as it just seem overrated rated / stated etc. If you need that feature, you have some other problem that you might wish to focus on. That is free opinion for 2025 :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the replies. I doubt that I have ever needed the chassis (starter) battery to be charged from the coach batteries but it might have been occurring in the background, especially during storage from the solar.

So I will install my new LFP batteries, new converter charging board for LFP/LA batteries, change my solar charger setting to LFP, and check the alternator output. If it is too high then I will pull out the BIRD and install a DC to DC charger. It seems like a more reliable way (i.e. current can't go over the input rating of the DC to DC charger) to limit the alternator current than a Li-BIM225.

I don't have solar, but if I did I have solar; it would be direct via a fuse to my starter battery because the only way I know I would buy solar is if I had to store my RV some place for extended periods of time with zero SP. Similar for House bank, but it would be extreme low current (1 or 2 panel max), and only for top off purposes. (Note: Direct because I don't have LI-BIM but if I had I would leverage)

As stated above your plan is sound and you have had good advice, the ONLY reason I did not buy a LI-BIM 225 was because I could not accept the premise that my engine could actually be running and I not have full current charge to my Lithium batteries 100% of the time :nonono: That reason is important because I DID NOT buy my DC2DC because of a phobia related to heat or possible burn up of the Alternator. Yes my having a DC2DC and a disabled Trombetta removes that risk, but it is a side benefit derivative.

My DC2DC is 50amps and I get 99% efficiency from my Orion XS. The charger is cool to the touch unlike Victron's 30amp DC2DC. What is even neater, is I can drop the current to any value I like between 0 - 50amps or even shut it off with the app if I was so inclined. An example of the latter, if my Starter battery was dead... I could optionally turn off the charger flip my switch to reenable my trombetta and my coach is now back to OEM as design by WBGO, I could hold the AUX switch to get the charge I needed to start engine.

Having said all of that, the DC2DC charger just brings more to the table than what typically is discussed. The ACE showed one for $129 at Wal Mart, I would buy that over a LI-BIM everytime. But the Victron was just me going with a best of breed brand in an area that I hope to learn more and expand my knowledge base in. I have 3 Victron products now, and I am all in on Victron, the $50 savings here or there is not relevant to me in the greater big picture of managing my batteries.
 
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Just be careful and consider the possibility of overheating your chassis alternator with the new Li batteries and make provisions to protect it. Two common ways are the Precision Circuits Li BIM225 and a DC to DC charger.

David

I basically have the same Thor MH, but since I'm starting fresh from AGM, I will be going to a 48 V system, and adding a second 48 V dedicated alternator.
 
I have been thinking of doing this for a while. Many of the battery sales say they are a plug and play, but how do I know if they truly are? I have a Xantrex 2000 inverter, that I assume is also the charger. Will Lithium work with this and is there a setting to change? I can't find any info on this inverter
 

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