Clearance light replacement/wiring connection access

[dytb]

I have 2019 Thor Four winds 22E. I found 3 out of 5 LED clearance lights on top of overhead bunk are out (first the driver side light was out a few weeks ago, today I noticed the other 2 were out as well). I thought they were incandescent lamps and just replacing them should be an easy task, so I went up the roof and found out they are LED lamps. After searching through this forum, I got lots of very help information. It looks like a lot of people had issues with the wiring connections rather than the lamps. It now makes more sense as I don't believe the two LEDs would be out at the same time.

So I just wonder how can I access to the wiring behind the wall of overhead bunk to take a look? See my photos, I don't seem to be able to find an easy access, either from inside or outside. Thanks.

 

[blw2]

my rig is quite a lot older
but it's likely built in a similar way.... I had to get into that area in mine....it seems to be built from the inside out... so not very easy to deconstruct. Mine has a little square box at the bottom...basically squares off the note just deep enough to give a vertical surface for the mattress to fit into...that's where I went in, but the staples were all from the outside.

BUT
the good news is I doubt you need to worry with that.

Pretty sure those little lights will pop out.... I think they are just a friction fit stuck into holes from the outside like a wine bottle cork. I could be wrong since I've never worked on any of those, but I'm fairly confident....
My bet is that there is enough wire attached to pull them out several inches at least so you can get to everything from the outside

 

[blw2]

like this
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Li...QMNHIkrZPq0_9E59_d0T8XrIvnrk-UBhoCKEYQAvD_BwE

 

[dytb]

my rig is quite a lot older
but it's likely built in a similar way.... I had to get into that area in mine....it seems to be built from the inside out... so not very easy to deconstruct. Mine has a little square box at the bottom...basically squares off the note just deep enough to give a vertical surface for the mattress to fit into...that's where I went in, but the staples were all from the outside.

BUT
the good news is I doubt you need to worry with that.

Pretty sure those little lights will pop out.... I think they are just a friction fit stuck into holes from the outside like a wine bottle cork. I could be wrong since I've never worked on any of those, but I'm fairly confident....
My bet is that there is enough wire attached to pull them out several inches at least so you can get to everything from the outside

Thanks. I pulled wires from outside yesterday, I was able to pull them for 1 ft until I couldn’t, but I only see the whole wire without any connector in between. I saw many people talked about wiring connection issues rather than the LEDs lamp. Given LED should have much longer life than incandescent ones, I felt it made sense. So you think it still might be the issue of LEDs?

 

[blw2]

did you pull them all? just thinkin' out loud here.... maybe the wires from one light go in and over to an adjacent light and connect there?

Maybe call Thor and ask for advice?

the bit about LED's lasting longer....
I think that's a yes...in theory....but in reality it's BS
Probably true in very controlled circumstances....super high quality LED's, regulated power, etc...
I've changed the vast majority of the bulbs in my rig to led...and have changed a whole lot of them again because of led failures, meanwhile most of my side marker lights are incandescent and are still running factory bulbs.
I changed my cab clearance lights from incan to LED because moisture got in. The LED's were sealed...and after a few short years moisture got in them too....and recently replaced them again...all 5, with LED's again

I've changed almost all bulbs in my house to LED too...and have had to replace many of them too.
and the LED lights on my boat trailer...yeah some failures there too.

 

[dytb]

did you pull them all? just thinkin' out loud here.... maybe the wires from one light go in and over to an adjacent light and connect there?

Maybe call Thor and ask for advice?

the bit about LED's lasting longer....
I think that's a yes...in theory....but in reality it's BS
Probably true in very controlled circumstances....super high quality LED's, regulated power, etc...
I've changed the vast majority of the bulbs in my rig to led...and have changed a whole lot of them again because of led failures, meanwhile most of my side marker lights are incandescent and are still running factory bulbs.
I changed my cab clearance lights from incan to LED because moisture got in. The LED's were sealed...and after a few short years moisture got in them too....and recently replaced them again...all 5, with LED's again

I've changed almost all bulbs in my house to LED too...and have had to replace many of them too.
and the LED lights on my boat trailer...yeah some failures there too.

No I didn't pull them all, I just pulled from the ones that's not on. I tried to pull all the way until I cannot pull any further, or the wires would be broken.

So your thought is more about the broken LEDs, not the wiring connections. Ok, I will try to read the voltage from the wiring first, then decide what to do next, just I need to climb up to the roof again

 

[dytb]

I just went up to the roof this afternoon, and tried with more force to remove the wiring. I was able to find the connections by the end of the wiring, and it turned out that the "longer life" LEDs were the culprits, not the wiring connections. (this thread had different stories: https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f8/led-clearance-light-24694.html)

I ordered new LEDs, now am just waiting for them to come then I am going to fix them.

Thank you very much @blw2 for the help, greatly appreciate it.

 

[racochran]

I just went up to the roof this afternoon, and tried with more force to remove the wiring. I was able to find the connections by the end of the wiring, and it turned out that the "longer life" LEDs were the culprits, not the wiring connections. (this thread had different stories: https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f8/led-clearance-light-24694.html)

I ordered new LEDs, now am just waiting for them to come then I am going to fix them.

Thank you very much @blw2 for the help, greatly appreciate it.

I have a 2019 Chateau 28 E and currently have the same problem as your having. I will like you pull out check connections then more than likely be replacing the 3 out LEDs. Thanks in advance for your and everyones help. By the way I had the right rear red LED clearance light out it turned out to be the switched battery positive wire loose on the LED circuit board soldered it and it is now working.

 

[sdetray]

Clearance lights short

I have a 2015 Thor Siesta Sprinter and have shorted out one of the rear side external clearance lights, with the result that all the rear clearance lights on the side and along the top rear are out. All the fuses test good, so I think it must be a wire that burned out before the fuse, maybe making the culprit fuse impossible to locate. Neither Thor nor anyone else has the exterior lighting wiring schematics. Seems like a real challenge to trace the wires that may not be accessible. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to find the wiring diagram or solve this without that? This is driving me a bit nuts. Any help most appreciated.

 

[thisoldman]

The cheap LEDs clearance light assemblies that Thor (and many other manufacturers) use in their coaches are just that—cheap light assemblies that are prone to failure. LEDs are a great idea that when properly engineered will last the better part of a lifetime, but the on-board electronics that they depend on for operation are, more often than not, cheap junk that fails far sooner than do the LEDs themselves. The problem is almost always with the light assemblies, not the wiring. Before you go pulling hard (and unnecessarily) on inaccessible wiring that may possibly break leaving you way up that most unpleasant creek without a paddle, use a multimeter to test for voltage.

 

[sdetray]

clearance lights

Thanks so much for your reply. I have resorted to a multimeter, which shows a small trickle of voltage, but the kicker is that all the clearance lights on the back lower right and left, as well as the 3 lights along the top back all went out at once, so it seems like they are tied in together and the break is between that tie point and the fuse, I presume. I won't start tearing at wires yet. I may get a continuity tester designed to avoid having to reach bare wire to test. Have you used something like that?

 

[thisoldman]

It could be that the lights are wired in series, and like those Christmas tree lights of yore, if one burns out the whole string fails. I have seen this in automotive dashboard gauges, where if even just a single LED and/or LED assembly goes bad then some or even all of the backlighting on a speedometer or tachometer disappears. The trickle of power you see with a multimeter could be caused by something like this, since even when one or more LED assemblies fail they can still allow a small amount of current to pass through the circuit—just not enough to light up the other LEDs or generate more than a weak flicker of light in those that are still operational. I don't think a continuity tester is going to be of much use in this situation. Continuity testers are primarily intended for use with good old fashioned analog electrical circuits, whereas LED light assemblies are solid state devices that don't always operate or respond the way you might expect. Besides, if you have a multimeter, you already have a continuity tester at your disposal—the ohmmeter setting on your device. (Of course, the root of the problem could also be loose or corroded wiring connections, in which case you have a significant challenge ahead of you because of the inaccessibility of the wiring—although I think a problem with one or more of the LED assemblies is the more likely culprit.)

 

[Sullyd 55]

How do you access them make a staging ? Wouldn’t climb on the fiberglass cap.

 

[sdetray]

Relay switches?

It could be that the lights are wired in series, and like those Christmas tree lights of yore, if one burns out the whole string fails. I have seen this in automotive dashboard gauges, where if even just a single LED and/or LED assembly goes bad then some or even all of the backlighting on a speedometer or tachometer disappears. The trickle of power you see with a multimeter could be caused by something like this, since even when one or more LED assemblies fail they can still allow a small amount of current to pass through the circuit—just not enough to light up the other LEDs or generate more than a weak flicker of light in those that are still operational. I don't think a continuity tester is going to be of much use in this situation. Continuity testers are primarily intended for use with good old fashioned analog electrical circuits, whereas LED light assemblies are solid state devices that don't always operate or respond the way you might expect. Besides, if you have a multimeter, you already have a continuity tester at your disposal—the ohmmeter setting on your device. (Of course, the root of the problem could also be loose or corroded wiring connections, in which case you have a significant challenge ahead of you because of the inaccessibility of the wiring—although I think a problem with one or more of the LED assemblies is the more likely culprit.)
Thanks again. I did some more testing and it seems like the lights all work (they are apparently running lights, not clearance lights), and I think it may be a relay switch. I'll check again with Thor for schematics on relays, but do you have any info on those? I really appreciate the time you're taking to help!

 

[thisoldman]

Thanks again. I did some more testing and it seems like the lights all work (they are apparently running lights, not clearance lights), and I think it may be a relay switch. I'll check again with Thor for schematics on relays, but do you have any info on those? I really appreciate the time you're taking to help!

Sorry, but I don't have or know of a source of that information. The schematics available on Thor's website are helpful up to a point, but a lot of detail is omitted, including the specifics of the circuit you are trying to analyze.

 

[sdetray]

clearance lights

I figured out the problem. There is a 15 amp fuse under the driver's seat that was blown.It was one of three fuses, along with a number of relay switches. Thank goodness it wasn't one of those! I had to take the seat totally off, and dig down through a couple layers of protective pad, and there it was. I couldn't find any info on there being multiple fuses there. It appears that the fuse was only for the clearance lights. Seems like overkill to have a 15 amp fuse for that, but there you are. I don't know if anyone else has had the same problem, but just in case I want to post the information in some easily accessible place. Do you have any suggestions for that?
Thanks again for all your time and effort! I really appreciate it.