Electrical issues

[BayouB]

I have a 2024 Shadow Cruiser 25BH
Purchased in Oct. Is this normal practice for Thor manufacturer to run wiring between the floor and chassis frame. Well they sure did along without connecting the ground. This poor workmanship almost burned the camper along with my house. Due to the ground hanging in the wind breakers did not trip and caused 120vac back feeding my house buring up 200amp main . This could have executed my kids stepping into the camper when feet on earth. What are your thoughts on what the dealership should do?

 

[16ACE27]

It looks like you had quite a bit of damage due to crunched wiring.
But the ground, connected or not, does not trip breakers on overcurrent.
It also doesn't make sense that a 30 amp 120 VAC load could "backfeed" a 240 VAC 200 amp panel and burn it up.
That may be the way you understand it, but if you want Thor to take any responsibility you are going to have to get a better description of what actually happened. Please update us with your progress.

 

[ducksface]

"What are your thoughts on what the dealership should do?"

The dealership is not involved.
They have no obligation.
If they fix this it will be per thor.

Almost and Could Have
are not solid arguments.

Get it fixed and move on.
It's a half hour to one hour fix, no more.

Get in the dealers face and you'll find he can trespass you and you'll be looking for a new repair shop.
Thor can't make a dealer work on your rv.

 

[Quit RVing]

There is no question you had a problem, but as 16ACE27 said, your explanation makes no sense from an electrical point of view. You need to get a licensed electrician to analyze this and give you a concise and correct description of what actually happened.

If you are going to seek a legal remedy on this, it is Thor’s problem, not the dealers. Get your facts straight, hire a lawyer, have him eliminate the “almost” and “could have” language, and get serious about this.

The lack of quality control here is astounding.

 

[BayouB]

The camper has a 50 amp service . Voltage splits at camper breaker panel 120vac on one left half and 120vac on other right half. Double breaker in the center. The shore power cable shorted to frame , the voltage on the right half traveled through the frame to the neutral that was screwed to the frame , The neutral followed its way back to the house and burnt up the house main, if the ground would have been landed it would have tripped the breaker instantly.

 

[16ACE27]

So you have the optional 50 amp service - good to know.

Not only are there two breakers in tandem in the RV, the 200 amp paned feeds your RV receptacle from a pair of 50 amp tandem breakers.
If one hot leg was shorted to neutral, it has the same effect as being shorted to ground - ground and neutral are electrically equivalent, and in fact, are bonded (shorted) together in the 200 amp panel. The one hot leg shorted to either neutral or ground would trip breakers in either the RV or the 200 amp panel or both. The tripping breaker would prevent anything from being "burnt up" unless there was another fault in the 200 amp panel.

 

[OldWEB]

The camper should NOT have the neutral connected to the frame (ground), that is against code. But... because it was, the short to the frame directed the current into the house panel along the neutral and as mentioned, where it is tied to the house ground. The 50A breaker in the house should have tripped.

 

[OldWEB]

Also, as the frame ground was flying in the wind and the white neutral was connected, that alone would save the yard apes from electrocution when barefoot. The 50A breaker in the house shoulda tripped.
Are there other wiring problems in the house?

 

[Bob Nodine]

I work with 480 VAC 3 Phase power all the time and you would not believe what can happen if there is a short in the load. Especially with circuit breakers. When there is a short in the load with a circuit breaker the energy is dissipated at the short, often with a violent explosion. That is why we try to use fuses with equipment connected to 480 VAC because the energy is dissipated in the fuses and not in the equipment. As ACE says, there are numerous locations for a circuit breaker or circuit to burn open before the 200 amp breaker at your house would burn up. If current got all the way to your RV then you should see melted metal and burned conditions at the short.

If you actually did burn up the 200 amp main then you are looking in the wrong place for the problem. Breakers only burn up if they are in a sustained long term overcurrent state causing heat to build. This usually only happens when the circuit breaker is defective. A good breaker will trip before it overheats. If your 200 amp breaker did burn up then your total house power consumption is over the rating for your 200 amp load center. You are going to have a very difficult time penning this on Thor.

 

[BayouB]

I totally disagree . Once the ground was connected the breaker tripped immediately. As far as Thor being responsible there is no denying poor workmanship and code violation as you mentioned referring to the neutral bonded to the frame. Regardless what happened to the main at the house, the camper is the root cause. Thor IS responsible for the wiring being crushed and shorted between the frame and the floor!

 

[ducksface]

Take your best shot.
Keep us informed.

Just get the rv wiring fixed and enjoy your rv.

This isn't much of a thing.
Have the rv rewired to what you think is correct.

Do you have a copy of the build code you typed about and can you pinpoint the violation?

Please post the code.

 

[BayouB]

I totally disagree. Once the ground was connected the breaker tripped immediately. As far as Thor being responsible there is no denying poor workmanship and code violation as you mentioned referring to the neutral bonded to the frame. Regardless what happened to the main at the house, the camper is the root cause. See the attached

Take your best shot.
Keep us informed.

Just get the rv wiring fixed and enjoy your rv.

This isn't much of a thing.
Have the rv rewired to what you think is correct.

Do you have a copy of the build code you typed about and can you pinpoint the violation?

Please post the code.

Neutral Landing: In RV manufacturing, neutral conductors for 120-volt AC systems are landed in the RV’s distribution panel on an isolated neutral bus bar, not bonded to the ground within the RV when connected to shore power. This ensures compliance with NEC 551 and prevents hazardous conditions like stray currents.

 

[16ACE27]

Back to your first picture showing a neutral wire connected to the frame and a ground wire hanging in the wind. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that that is incorrect.

Where does the other end of that neutral wire go? If it goes directly to the incoming SP cable with no connection to the power center's neutral buss, then that is GROSS NEGLIGENCE. The results of this:
Only 240 VAC connected to the RV's Power Center
No 120 VAC loads would work in the RV EDIT: Well, they might work for a second as they would have up to 240 VAC applied to them. The breaker box would act as a complex voltage divider depending on what loads were energized. This may or may not allow distribution breakers to trip.

BUT, if one of the "hot legs" did short to the frame (regardless of whether the ground was connected) one of the supply breakers in the house panel for the RV receptacle should trip (and open the second ganged one) protecting the house panel from the overcurrent short condition and rendering the downstream wires and loads safe.

As far as the dealer goes - I assume they will be the ones to rectify the RV problem.

The question unanswered is:
Was this a 50 amp RV wired by Thor from the factory? Or,
Was this a 30 amp RV wired by Thor from the factory and the dealer upgraded it to 50 amp to accommodate optionally added loads such as a second Air Conditioner.

 

[GrandRover]

I work with 480 VAC 3 Phase power all the time

Bob, do you work with Medical Imaging Equipment? I found your LinkedIn profile but see no information. I ask because I worked with 480 VAC 3 Phase power for 37+ years in the Medical Imaging industry.

 

[GrandRover]

What are your thoughts on what the dealership should do?

To me it looks like you have a valid case about miswiring by Thor but:

You purchased this last October.

*** Has it ever been connected to shore power before?
*** Have there been any power issues prior to this?

You should definitely document it all and get a qualified electrician to look at it and give you their take on it.

You should contact Thor administration and copy the selling dealer in the communications.

You should settle for no less than restoration to factory wiring even if that means the dealer has to run a new cable harness. Note: not everyone here may agree with this but I think anything less is a band aid and means your coach is not built to factory specs especially with it being less than a year old. My coach (2023 Thor Axis 24.1) had 120 VAC cables cut by a metal plate under the couch last August. (PS I know this happened to Duck's Axis as well). In my case the cutting of the 120 VAC cable caused major arcing and fire / sparks to shoot out from under the couch and from the wall outlet next to the couch. The dealer looked at it and offered to patch the AC cable instead of replacing it. I was not happy with that and got Thor involved asking for information on where that cut wire came from and end to end connections. Thor provided the information and a wiring harness that went from under the couch to the breaker panel. The dealer replaced the wiring harness rather than "repairing" it.

At that time Thor had been offering me what they call an LROW (Limited Repair Only "extended" Warranty). There was a lot of back and forth where Thor wanted me to sign a waiver that would absolve Thor and the dealer of any past issues (such as this cut wire). I contacted Thor admin and was eventually put in touch with a VP who agreed that I did not need to sign a waiver. End result: Thor gave me a 12 month extension to my warranty with no strings attached.

 

[16ACE27]

Bob, do you work with Medical Imaging Equipment? I found your LinkedIn profile but see no information. I ask because I worked with 480 VAC 3 Phase power for 37+ years in the Medical Imaging industry.

I worked with 450 VAC 3 Phase ungrounded electrical systems on nuclear submarines. Does that count?

 

[GrandRover]

I worked with 450 VAC 3 Phase ungrounded electrical systems on nuclear submarines. Does that count?

Definitely counts!

 

[ducksface]

When on shore power and my slide short shorted out, it would;
Not set off the rv gfci
Not throw a breaker in the rv
Not set off my surge guard
Not set off the gfci in the house breaker

It would kick off the house breaker.

 

[Lt Keefer]

No point in arguing this out on the internet. You need a licensed electrician and after that, maybe a lawyer.

 

[ducksface]

No point in arguing this out on the internet. You need a licensed electrician and after that, maybe a lawyer.

If he needs an attorney for a 15 minute, billed as one hour, fix...then He needs a different hobby other than the making himself miserable one he'd have to be embracing now.