Front wheels off the ground...for weeks?

[ducksface]

The above is a 400% liability line of total buttcovering added by a Jr attorney in the cube farm type of an outsourced legal office who outsource hired Bob Newhart to write that manual(80's sitcom referenced as fact).

They're the same type buttcoverers that print
'Best by' dates on packages of 250,000,000 year old
Himalayan Pink Salt.


It is nothing else.

 

[dkoldman]

The above is a 400% liability line of total buttcovering added by a Jr attorney in the cube farm type of an outsourced legal office who outsource hired Bob Newhart to write that manual(80's sitcom referenced as fact).

They're the same type buttcoverers that print
'Best by' dates on packages of 250,000,000 year old
Himalayan Pink Salt.


It is nothing else.

Since it is the damn Duck I will throw one more comment. Whoever wrote the manual, it was not overruled by Power Gear System Engineering nor in this case Winnebago Engineering. But again the point or question was Why some do not level with wheels off the ground. If we don't want answers we should NOT ask questions.

I just gave my answers nothing else.

 

[ducksface]

You did, and that's fine. I'm not saying to not do it, I'm saying why it's an overblown caution where only slight caution MIGHT be needed.
I'm sure any one of our one post wonders could manage to make wheels off the ground a problem.
Basic Manuals are written for
The Lowest Common Denominator
and not for experienced folk.

Experience often says differently than jr legal clerk.

My advices are for
Lowest common denominator to manage a thought about it...and for experienced folk to do a slight head nod.

I am sometimes the
Lowest common denominator.
I was recently this during someone's surgery but I didn't quote the manual, I asked why not the prevailing way and was told why not.
I am not often in that position regarding life and litigation and liability...but I accepted my lack of forethought and knowledge of specific peripherals(as I hadn't ever a reason for an indepth consideration prior)into the situation and acquiesced by not arguing the limited text book position i knew, but by realizing how someone else's experience trumped the only thing I knew... the schoolbook.

If you don't know how something works by all means join the happy hapless and be happy. I do this on things i really don't need/want to, or haven't had an inopportune opportunity to, learn.
If you do know how something works...WORK IT.

Does anyone remember
Wesayso Corp?

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Rinse. Repeat.
Change oil every 3,000 miles.
Rotate tires every xxx miles.
Are these bastions of...
"because I said so" ??
I'm such a rebel!

 

[ducksface]

I once told the woman who ran the fruit stand that she had nice melons.
I then, right in front of her,
poured Pepsi into a Coke glass.
Then I picked at her until she couldn't stand it.
Then I wrestled her to the ground when she protested.
Some say she won.

Ribald rebel baitable debel debatable

 

[dkoldman]

Rinse. Repeat.
Change oil every 3,000 miles.
Rotate tires every xxx miles.
Are these bastions of...
"because I said so" ??
I'm such a rebel!

Warning / Disclaimer: I have caught up on those 2 beers I was behind, and now I on positive side to exceed my daily 6 pack limit.

1st. None of those bastions are in any RV manual that I have seen
2nd. Today was the 1st I have heard that suggests what the manual states is a bad practice, except for special cases like me that is a Least Common Denominator, but as a general rule following the manual may explain why I as a newbie have had no issues.
3rd. This could be similar to in my manual where it says to not use the levelers to work under the RV. Now this is one where I would said I would be afraid to violate, because every year I see where some poor soul has lost his life or was severely injured due to a jack failure.
4. Note: I did break rank with my manual once when I raised both rears off the ground to take off an outside dually tire; so I could put on a new tire air valve extender. With my now acquired experience and knowledge, I will never do that again ( at least by myself) as that tire was heavy as hell, so I surmise I belong with the Least Commons.
5. Now if you want some real Why questions. Why do front end alignments? My manual does not say to do. 6 years I am on new set or tires that were replaced only due to age and fear after having two blowouts on the Goodyear OEM tires starting year three. But alignment was never an issue. Why use the pink stuff? My manual does not say I have to, maybe it is for the LCD that are afraid? IDK. Why do the Cheap Handling Fix, my manual does not say to do and Ford and Winnebago Engineering specifically said they do not recommend.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea, I rather go back to drinking. I am preparing myself for holiday tomorrow. My RV manual supports my drinking, that is why they installed two refrigerators, one is outside; so I don't stumble and injure myself on the Kwikie steps in the event I did NOT follow the manual and had my front tires off the ground because the steps would also be too high

 

[RV Driver]

Once again I'm on ducksface side in this one. Many - maybe MOST - owners manuals today are written by the legal departments at the various companies, not the mechanical staff. They cover their butts for every conceivable problem, whether or not it makes any mechanical sense. I will give you a perfect example.

I flat tow a 2017 Mini Cooper Countryman S with the All4 all wheel drive system and the 6-speed manual transmission. Mini Cooper (BMW) corporate says you absolutely cannot flat tow this car. They are wrong.

I consulted with two real world mechanics (as opposed to the ivory tower corporate/legal types) who work on Minis as a specialty. Both of them told me there was no mechanical reason why these cars could not be flat towed.

Hmmm...

I've towed this car over 3,000 miles so far with absolutely no issues.

I'll stick with what I've been doing for 12 years with my jacks and I don't care if the wheels are off the ground or not.

 

[HMCSW]

Hey again. I searched, I promise, and didn't see a consensus here. Our RV park moved us to a somewhat less level site and our front wheels are 6 inches off the ground with front jacks maxxed out. We can't move to another campground and plan to be here for 6 weeks or more.

I've had wheels up before, without issue, but not for weeks on end. I did purchase some wood planks to shim under the wheels, but not sure they do any good, maybe take some weight off shocks and jacks.

Any ideas here? I can block a bit more under the front jacks so they aren't maxxed out, but the wheels would still be off the ground. We are on good pavement, so now worries about settling


Thanks in advance!

I would never leave the tires off the ground. Especially both. The rams are designed to hold weight up and down not lateral. If you moving around inside the coach creates lateral movement that could indeed damage the rams.

 

[RV Driver]

I would never leave the tires off the ground. Especially both. The rams are designed to hold weight up and down not lateral. If you moving around inside the coach creates lateral movement that could indeed damage the rams.

And your proof of this is...?

 

[ducksface]

authority is authored whether or not the author is an authority.
Duckism

Followers follow whether or not they know what the followed is following.(you read it but you don't know why they wrote it)
Duckist

And
I'll be towing my s10 that my manual says is not towable...but is.
I asked here for experiences to justify or quash my suspicion of a liability based lie instead of just stopping with what I'd read in the manual and me assuming that the manufacturer
HAS A TASTE FOR TRUTH OVER LIABILITY. THEY DO NOT.

WHY WOULD THEY EVER CHOOSE TRUTH OVER LIABILITY...EVER EVER?

 

[16ACE27]

I would never leave the tires off the ground. Especially both. The rams are designed to hold weight up and down not lateral. If you moving around inside the coach creates lateral movement that could indeed damage the rams.

If the leveling jacks can't handle the "lateral" movement of people moving in the coach, then they have no business lifting the coach to level it.

 

[ducksface]

'you moving around inside the coach creates lateral movement'

It would require a mosh pit with
'Raining blood' by Slayer at 11 on the Richter scale
And
Even then the walls would fall off before the jacks bent.

(And the wobble they make stabilizers for is due to tire sidewall flex...so...there's THAT lack of lateral support, tires down)

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

If the leveling jacks can't handle the "lateral" movement of people moving in the coach, then they have no business lifting the coach to level it.

And... this probably falls under the category of "are the jacks affixed rigidly to the frame..." as in properly welded. Yes they can be bolted on, but the backyard engineer in me says welding wins.

 

[Lt Keefer]

There you go again, following the directions. Let me play devils advocate, why use an aux braking system if the manual says to use one?

 

[dkoldman]

Once again I'm on ducksface side in this one. Many - maybe MOST - owners manuals today are written by the legal departments at the various companies, not the mechanical staff. They cover their butts for every conceivable problem, whether or not it makes any mechanical sense. I will give you a perfect example.

I flat tow a 2017 Mini Cooper Countryman S with the All4 all wheel drive system and the 6-speed manual transmission. Mini Cooper (BMW) corporate says you absolutely cannot flat tow this car. They are wrong.

I consulted with two real world mechanics (as opposed to the ivory tower corporate/legal types) who work on Minis as a specialty. Both of them told me there was no mechanical reason why these cars could not be flat towed.

Hmmm...

View attachment 740791

I've towed this car over 3,000 miles so far with absolutely no issues.

I'll stick with what I've been doing for 12 years with my jacks and I don't care if the wheels are off the ground or not.

Manuals, we don't need no stinking manuals.

I believe even the OP has said he has done both ways and not had any issues. His point was this forum did not have a clear consensus that he could find thus his thread.

I believe it was your question as to why some are afraid to leave wheels up while leveling. It should be irrelevant with who you agree with when the question is why some do? I have tried to point a few factors as to why. I get you may not agree with the logic of some, but they certainly are not going to damage their coach by leaving tires on the ground. For some of us that is enough. There is enough to worry about when owning an RV, this is not on my list of worry. I don't think anyone is worried about the RV Owner that has his wheels off the ground a few campsites down, nor should anyone be worried about the RV Owner that never seems to have his wheels off the ground. Live let live.

 

[dkoldman]

If the leveling jacks can't handle the "lateral" movement of people moving in the coach, then they have no business lifting the coach to level it.

I don't know if my jacks can handle lateral movement or not? I do know my manual says do not move around while operating jacks and ensure all occupants remain seated. Yes I know it can be called liability protection, but isn't that the purpose of instructions to follow directions. Maybe I should just toss my manual.

Funny thing is that leveling the coach is one of the more exciting part of those that ride with me RV experience. When I get to camp location, I get to be center of attention for a few minutes because my wife tells everyone to be quiet and stay seated and don't move. I then get up and go get my LED Camco leveler and sit in the middle of the floor, everyone is watching . I return to the Captain chair then push the Power Gear buttons and then the beeping starts, the movement of the RV and everyone is at awe. It stops and magically all the LEDs have turned Green. I then open door and get out, not a soul has budged. I make sure all jacks and tires are on the ground. Of course if one tire is 1/32" of an inch off the ground, I will retract the jacks and move about a foot forward or backwards and add a leveling pad to spot where tire was raised off the ground, drive upon it, and repeat the auto leveling process and verify. I then go back in the RV and asked occupants on the sofa (if any) to move while I extend the slide out, my slide has never been out unless the Power Gear leveling system is fully extended and level and because the manual says I should not have any one seated in slide while extended or retracting. Maybe I shouldn't follow that manual procedure for the slide either but I do.

 

[ducksface]

Exactly.
There is no reason to have wheels off the ground unless wheels have to be off the ground.
But
There is no reason to believe wheels have to be on the ground other than a liability line in a manual.
All that matters is fear itself.

Question Authority.
Signed,
Ben Franklin (for traditionalists)
&
Timothy Leary(for non traditionalists)

It is the thing both sides adamantly agree on.

Sheep say 'bah'.

Bah.
Signed,
Anyone who doesn't question authority.

It is the thing both sides adamantly agree on.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

I don't know if my jacks can handle lateral movement or not? I do know my manual says do not move around while operating jacks and ensure all occupants remain seated. Yes I know it can be called liability protection, but isn't that the purpose of instructions to follow directions. Maybe I should just toss my manual.

Funny thing is that leveling the coach is one of the more exciting part of those that ride with me RV experience. When I get to camp location, I get to be center of attention for a few minutes because my wife tells everyone to be quiet and stay seated and don't move. I then get up and go get my LED Camco leveler and sit in the middle of the floor, everyone is watching . I return to the Captain chair then push the Power Gear buttons and then the beeping starts, the movement of the RV and everyone is at awe. It stops and magically all the LEDs have turned Green. I then open door and get out, not a soul has budged. I make sure all jacks and tires are on the ground. Of course if one tire is 1/32" of an inch off the ground, I will retract the jacks and move about a foot forward or backwards and add a leveling pad to spot where tire was raised off the ground, drive upon it, and repeat the auto leveling process and verify. I then go back in the RV and asked occupants on the sofa (if any) to move while I extend the slide out, my slide has never been out unless the Power Gear leveling system is fully extended and level and because the manual says I should not have any one seated in slide while extended or retracting. Maybe I shouldn't follow that manual procedure for the slide either but I do.

Most likely reason your manual instructs everyone to remain seated and not walk around in the RV while leveling is because of suspension movement. The auto leveling is using a very sensitive accelerometer to gauge level. If the RV is shifting - even ever so slightly - the logic is going to make confused corrections trying to compensate... kind of like trying to hit a moving target. Depending on how it's programmed it could even throw an error.

 

[dkoldman]

Most likely reason your manual instructs everyone to remain seated and not walk around in the RV while leveling is because of suspension movement. The auto leveling is using a very sensitive accelerometer to gauge level. If the RV is shifting - even ever so slightly - the logic is going to make confused corrections trying to compensate... kind of like trying to hit a moving target. Depending on how it's programmed it could even throw an error.

That makes sense? The problem though it is in my manual, how am I to know if it truth or liability

I mean should I toss the entire manual, just the odd pages or something else?

Is it that hard for anyone to understand why anyone might actually read and follow their manual? That is not saying that everyone should always do exactly what the manual says. It is simply a why some do, and in most cases one may seek their manual to seek best liability protection.

I am sure you don't always have to have the actual awg wire recommended to rewire your house battery, but to question why one may follow the written instructions from the Mfg? C'mon man, I Rejex the argument

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

That makes sense? The problem though it is in my manual, how am I to know if it truth or liability

I mean should I toss the entire manual, just the odd pages or something else?

Is it that hard for anyone to understand why anyone might actually read and follow their manual? That is not saying that everyone should always do exactly what the manual says. It is simply a why some do, and in most cases one may seek their manual to seek best liability protection.

I am sure you don't always have to have the actual awg wire recommended to rewire your house battery, but to question why one may follow the written instructions from the Mfg? C'mon man, I Rejex the argument

It's "critical thinking"... which I believe you subscribe to. Then there's those who blindly follow, not questioning anything. I have a sister-in-law who does exactly that.

The old adage "consider the source" applies here. Critical thinkers go outside the box and make an INFORMED factually based decision, while considering the source. When you discover the WHY in someone else's decision making... you usually have your answer. In this case... did this answer come directly from the engineering/design department? OR is it straight out of the legal department via Duck's reference... "CYA legalese"?