House battery

[nsraja]

My house battery (two Interstate batteries from Costco) is consistently showing 10.4 volt soon after turning off the engine or generator. This started happening about a month ago. I drove 2000 miles last week and that did not help. I was told anything below 10v is considered a dead battery. Last year the batteries lasted one year and this year both batteries seem to have bit the dust, again.

1. Is it worth investing in lithium batteries? We dont boondock for safety reasons and we have also found that staying in private RV parks or Loves RV Stop while on the road is well worth the money. We dont depend too much on battery power. Li batteries also cost a fortune.
2. Should I ditch Costco batteries and look elsewhere? Any recommendations?

Thanks
Raja

 

[ghnl]

Interstate batteries have a good reputation. If you don't boondock often or for long the batteries should easily last 5+ years. If they are not being charged while plugged in (aka Shore Power) or after driving a decent distance then there is likely something amiss with the charging system.

Unfortunately, once significantly discharged - and especially if not re-charged soon - even the best FLA (Flooded Lead Acid) batteries may never fully recover.

 

[16ACE27]

My house battery (two Interstate batteries from Costco) is consistently showing 10.4 volt soon after turning off the engine or generator.
Thanks
Raja

What do they show:

When running the engine? or generator?
When plugged into SP or running the generator?

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

A100 Ah LiFePO4 battery can now be bought for about the same price as a quality deep cycle lead acid battery. It's not the battery cost; it's the cost of a different charging infrastructure.

Higher continuous amp draw from the alternator is the issue. The two common solutions discussed at length on this forum are:

A DC-DC charger - can be set to control the amperage.
A Li-BIM 225 - Connects/disconnects at pre-set intervals.

Either of these solutions will add about $100 to your overall cost in lithium conversion.

So in terms of cost, the battery price is a wash. Since you never boondock, 100 Ah is plenty of power. Is the $100 worth it? Considering the LiFePO4 battery will likely last 3 times as long as a lead acid battery, I'd definitely go with the lithium and not look back.

 

[DavidEM]

House batteries lasting only a year is unusual. Rather than us trying to diagnose the problem, find a good mobile RV mechanic to do it. With your camping style you don’t need Li batteries. A pair of good deep cycle batteries should easily last five years.

David

 

[nsraja]

What do they show:

When running the engine? or generator?
When plugged into SP or running the generator?

When running the engine, battery volt indicator shows 14.1 volt. I think generator is some 13.6v and on SP it is 13.2v. After leaving it on charging for a while the capacity will show as fully charged. Once it is off SP or gen or engine, it will quickly drop back to 10.4v (in 30 minutes or so).

At my RV storage facility, I keep the shore power connected. All additional accessories I have installed get power from a distribution unit and I cut off power to the distributor when storing the RV. Last year they had an outage for two weeks and this year they had an outage for one week. And I noticed this "10.4v problem" after that event. Could it be the loss of shore power that is killing the batteries? Even if shore power was lost for a week or two, I wonder if the batteries will drain just like that?

 

[ghnl]

13.2V is a little low for re-charging but it might be normal once the batteries have been charged. A 'smart charger' will go into maintenance mode to keep the batteries charged but avoid over-charging them (which is also bad for batteries).

It may be that your batteries have lost capacity due to having been run down and left in a discharged state for too long. Most auto part stores will load test your batteries for free. Yes, they are hoping you'll buy new batteries from them (if needed) but in my experience they don't fake the test to trick you into buying a battery. Either drive the motorhome to the auto parts store or take the batteries out and bring them to the store.

 

[16ACE27]

When running the engine, battery volt indicator shows 14.1 volt. I think generator is some 13.6v and on SP it is 13.2v. After leaving it on charging for a while the capacity will show as fully charged. Once it is off SP or gen or engine, it will quickly drop back to 10.4v (in 30 minutes or so).

At my RV storage facility, I keep the shore power connected. All additional accessories I have installed get power from a distribution unit and I cut off power to the distributor when storing the RV. Last year they had an outage for two weeks and this year they had an outage for one week. And I noticed this "10.4v problem" after that event. Could it be the loss of shore power that is killing the batteries? Even if shore power was lost for a week or two, I wonder if the batteries will drain just like that?

Well, I was asking what the voltage AT THE HOUSE BATTERIES showed with a voltmeter, but regardless, 10.2 VDC is either a dead cell or very discharged batteries. Replace them. I just picked up two 100 AH LiFePO4 batteries on the jungle site in a group 24 form factor for $135 each. No reason at all to stick with FLA.

 

[dkoldman]

My Lithium batteries were cheaper and had more capacity than my FLA.

If you don't have someone to check out for you, you can be 95% sure the batteries are toast due to being drained down. When you replace and get new batteries this time, you might want to post data on the site for 1st few days and then maybe weekly until your problem is found.

You have some abnormal issue going on. When you share more, it may help others to figure it out.

The fact that extended power outages have occurred in the past in your areas, you should expect again. IMO, you need to find what is draining your house batteries, or buy a solar system to keep your batteries charge to offset the drain or severe loss of batteries.

I know it is a lot but it kind of depneds on how much money you wish to spend.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Another bonus of LiFePO4 batteries is you can COMPLETELY discharge them without ill effects. Then simply recharge. You have the FULL capacity available, unlike lead acid. Do that to a lead acid a few times and it's toast. So much for saving a few bucks...

 

[MCP-THOR]

FWIW you also have to figure out why your previous sets of batteries both died in a year. Sounds like something is not working as it should, such as an unknown draw not covered by being plugged in.

 

[Mark54]

My house battery (two Interstate batteries from Costco) is consistently showing 10.4 volt soon after turning off the engine or generator. This started happening about a month ago. I drove 2000 miles last week and that did not help. I was told anything below 10v is considered a dead battery. Last year the batteries lasted one year and this year both batteries seem to have bit the dust, again.

1. Is it worth investing in lithium batteries? We dont boondock for safety reasons and we have also found that staying in private RV parks or Loves RV Stop while on the road is well worth the money. We dont depend too much on battery power. Li batteries also cost a fortune.
2. Should I ditch Costco batteries and look elsewhere? Any recommendations?

Thanks
Raja

First- are they deep cycle? If not, that's part of the problem. Costco might have sold you starter batteries that will not perform like deep cycle batteries. 10.4V is dead. Bad cell, or bad battery. There should be "DC" or "Deep Cycle" on those batteries somewhere.

Charge rate for DC battery is 13.6 for lead-acid, AGM, SLA, and

14.6V for LiFePo4 (aka LFP) so if you do change to LFP, you will need to change the settings on your charger (converter) to Lithium, or get a compatible charger and inverter.

LFP's can go 3000-8000 charge cycles, depending on brand and charge cycles (best at 20-80% SOC) The prices have come down a lot too.

Also need more than 200Ah for boondocking, esp. if you need AC. I have 600Ah and also have a 12V roof AC so I can go 4+ days w/o shoreline power or generator, as long as it's not too hot outside. 2 days otherwise.
With 200Ah, you only have 4800Wh, and a 120VAC roof AC can use 1500W on hi cool in one hour, or about 2-3 hrs if really hot out. With two on the roof, that's 3000W. Or use 12V or rechargeable battery fans and open windows like we do if humidity is tolerable.

 

[nsraja]

Thanks everyone. Wow that's a lot of sincere replies, appreciate it.

The outage is not due to our energy provider, Houston does get outage but for some godly reason we dont get as much outage in our neighborhood, even during Harvey and Beryl. At the RV storage the power likely tripped and the guy working there is never proactive or responsive to anything.

Mark54's warning about 14.6v requirement is something to think about. (Yes they are Deep Cycles 27DC available at Costco).

Our next trip is not planned until next Spring, we have been proved time and time again, the best place to spend Christmas holidays is home. So I will heed MCP's advice and start troubleshooting.

Chateau_nomad, 16ACE27 - I see one on Amazon for $189 but sold by some nameless company. For our use case one will do, I will replace with LiFePO4 in a heartbeat but Mark54's 14.6v requirement is something to research. Besides do Lithium batteries not (unless made by well reputed companies which cost a fortune) carry a higher risk of fire? Isn't it why they ban them in check-in baggages?

 

[CactusJuice]

With Black Friday pricing on lithium, conversion certainly is tempting. In addition to a DC-DC charger, do you also need to replace the converter with one that has a lithium charging profile? Also, how does one manage charging the chassis battery from the converter in the case where the standard converter is replaced with a lithium compatible one?

 

[16ACE27]

Thanks everyone. Wow that's a lot of sincere replies, appreciate it.

The outage is not due to our energy provider, Houston does get outage but for some godly reason we dont get as much outage in our neighborhood, even during Harvey and Beryl. At the RV storage the power likely tripped and the guy working there is never proactive or responsive to anything.

Mark54's warning about 14.6v requirement is something to think about. (Yes they are Deep Cycles 27DC available at Costco).

Our next trip is not planned until next Spring, we have been proved time and time again, the best place to spend Christmas holidays is home. So I will heed MCP's advice and start troubleshooting.

Chateau_nomad, 16ACE27 - I see one on Amazon for $189 but sold by some nameless company. For our use case one will do, I will replace with LiFePO4 in a heartbeat but Mark54's 14.6v requirement is something to research. Besides do Lithium batteries not (unless made by well reputed companies which cost a fortune) carry a higher risk of fire? Isn't it why they ban them in check-in baggages?

As mentioned above, $135
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0DFLY3ZZV/?th=1

14.6 VDC is nice but not required. Your alternator should put out close to that. Your converter will in Bulk mode.

My converter will charge my LFP bank to 100% but then will allow it to slowly discharge when in float mode to between 60% to 70%. If you want to top them off just get a 10 amp lithium charger. I just picked up a 50 amp charger For $104 to replace my 20 amp charger which will be repurposed for a "solar generator" project.

LiFePO4 batteries for boats and RVs are NOT the same as the lithium batteries in cell phones, small electronics, radio control hobby planes, boats and cars, and some cars, that are subject to the lithium fire hazard.
If you don't boondock then a single battery as linked above will suit your needs.

But with impending China tarrifs looming you may want to act now.

 

[dkoldman]

With Black Friday pricing on lithium, conversion certainly is tempting. In addition to a DC-DC charger, do you also need to replace the converter with one that has a lithium charging profile? Also, how does one manage charging the chassis battery from the converter in the case where the standard converter is replaced with a lithium compatible one?

I did all of this for a Lithium conversion about 3 months ago for $600. The actual lithium battery cost was separate. I didn't have to do all the things I did, but 4 years ago to do what I just did was going to cost me $4,000.

I bought a new Progressive Dynamics Converter that has a charging profile for all battery types plus a remote wizard to see and change on the fly.

A new Victron DC to DC Charger and a switch to turn ON/OFF my Trombetta functions.

The 300ah Lithium battery I would eventually buy was $400

I don't have the ability to charge my Chassis battery from the converter as it will not charge while on SP. Nor do I have any type of Solar. Never had an issue with Chassis battery, never added water and it is now 6 years old. I had bought a new battery to replace it earlier this year but it got damaged/lost before I could install it.

I do have a disconnect switch on my Chassis batter, but I don't use it.

 

[nsraja]

As mentioned above, $135
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0DFLY3ZZV/?th=1

14.6 VDC is nice but not required. Your alternator should put out close to that. Your converter will in Bulk mode.

My converter will charge my LFP bank to 100% but then will allow it to slowly discharge when in float mode to between 60% to 70%. If you want to top them off just get a 10 amp lithium charger. I just picked up a 50 amp charger For $104 to replace my 20 amp charger which will be repurposed for a "solar generator" project.

LiFePO4 batteries for boats and RVs are NOT the same as the lithium batteries in cell phones, small electronics, radio control hobby planes, boats and cars, and some cars, that are subject to the lithium fire hazard.
If you don't boondock then a single battery as linked above will suit your needs.

But with impending China tarrifs looming you may want to act now.

You are a life saver, I will jump into this project and ask for your advice once I get an inventory of all electrical parts installed under my RV. I just need to raise my RV on wood blocks a few inches but my driveway is not flat so I have to figure out how to do this safely. May be I will do the proper sine wave inverter integration while I am at it. I think you recommended an ATS in my previous post.

 

[Mark54]

Thanks everyone. Wow that's a lot of sincere replies, appreciate it.

The outage is not due to our energy provider, Houston does get outage but for some godly reason we dont get as much outage in our neighborhood, even during Harvey and Beryl. At the RV storage the power likely tripped and the guy working there is never proactive or responsive to anything.

Mark54's warning about 14.6v requirement is something to think about. (Yes they are Deep Cycles 27DC available at Costco).

Our next trip is not planned until next Spring, we have been proved time and time again, the best place to spend Christmas holidays is home. So I will heed MCP's advice and start troubleshooting.

Chateau_nomad, 16ACE27 - I see one on Amazon for $189 but sold by some nameless company. For our use case one will do, I will replace with LiFePO4 in a heartbeat but Mark54's 14.6v requirement is something to research. Besides do Lithium batteries not (unless made by well reputed companies which cost a fortune) carry a higher risk of fire? Isn't it why they ban them in check-in baggages?

LFP batteries as 16ACE27 said, are not the same as Li-ion, that are fire hazards if mistreated, as found in many EVs and cell phones, e-bikes, etc...
There was a Tesla Model X 'borrowed' from a dad in nearby Burlington and kid ran over a stump before driving out onto frozen lake Champlain. Stump punctured the battery case, and the chain reaction started! End result is seen in pic- that was Feb.2019. Kinda like modern art!
LFP's or LiFePo4 do not possess that problem and is why Tesla is changing over to them, and why so many RVs are using them now for coach power systems.
Much harder to get an LFP battery to ignite.

 

[Beau388]

If you have an old Parallex Power Systems converter 53xx (I have a 5375), AP products make the lithium charger conversion module for it. It is less than $50 on Amazon and plugs in to the charger's circuit board's temperature compensation port. It has a 14.4 volts constant voltage bulk charge and a 13.8 volt float. That a lot less than replacing the 8 year old converter.


There is often a question if special charger is needed for LFP batteries. The answer is yes, IF you want the LFP batteries to be fully charged. A FLA battery needs a three stage converter (bulk, equalization and float). When the FLA battery is at 80% charge, the converter will drop the charging voltage to just above the float voltage. This is done to prevent the battery from boiling. This will effectively stop charging the LFP battery, as the LFP battery needs 14.2 to 14.6 volts for the battery management system to complete balancing to the cells.


Different chemistries with different problems.

 

[16ACE27]

If you have an old Parallex Power Systems converter 53xx (I have a 5375), AP products make the lithium charger conversion module for it. It is less than $50 on Amazon and plugs in to the charger's circuit board's temperature compensation port. It has a 14.4 volts constant voltage bulk charge and a 13.8 volt float. That a lot less than replacing the 8 year old converter.


There is often a question if special charger is needed for LFP batteries. The answer is yes, IF you want the LFP batteries to be fully charged. A FLA battery needs a three stage converter (bulk, equalization and float). When the FLA battery is at 80% charge, the converter will drop the charging voltage to just above the float voltage. This is done to prevent the battery from boiling. This will effectively stop charging the LFP battery, as the LFP battery needs 14.2 to 14.6 volts for the battery management system to complete balancing to the cells.


Different chemistries with different problems.

For those wondering if their OG converter can charge LiFePO4 batteries, the answer is: yes. Absorption mode will fully charge them and then when it kicks into LA float mode they will slowly discharge (if there is a load on the system) to about 65%. Here's a pic of my converter finishing off my 500 AH bank.

My practical experience says otherwise.