If you are on the fence about upgrading to Lithium!

[ducksface]

Yeah buddy! Also helps with roof heat coming into rig.
I have 400 watts of fold out panels under couch also if needed when running an AC.

This is the first viable use I've read about for a folding panel.
The smaller folding 40w and even smaller seem to be Fisher Price/Sony 'my first solar' items.

And
A lithium battery with a bms inside is a drop-in solution nowadays for rv's...but not for starting circuits(it's close but not practical).
If you have reservations they're from reading old articles or not interpreting new info.

It's easy.
Read battleborns caveat page and see where they've reversed their stance. They still put as much scary as they can into the verbiage but they have had to follow the TRUTH. The accessories are now redundant in the system.

Think;
CB vs cell phone.
I'm sure a case can be made for a cb over a cell phone.

We're now at that stage of thought dismissal with lithiums vs wet and all else.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

This is the first viable use I've read about for a folding panel.
The smaller folding 40w and even smaller seem to be Fisher Price/Sony 'my first solar' items.

And
A lithium battery with a bms inside is a drop in nowadays for rv's...but not for starting circuits(it's close but not practical).
If you have reservations they're from reading old articles or not interpreting new info.

It's easy.
Read battleborns caveat page and see where they've reversed their stance. They still put as much scary as they can into the verbiage but they have had to follow the TRUTH. The accessories are now redundant in the system.

Think;
CB vs cell phone.
I'm sure a case can be made for a cb over a cell phone.

We're now at that stage of thought dismissal with lithiums vs wet and all else.

CB vs cell phone? West Virginia.... Colorado... both worthless there... nuff said. How long before Elon starts his own cell/comms company?? Tower based comms will be obsolete.

But I agree 100% with your lithium musings!!

 

[ducksface]

I have a cb in the rv and the zr2 and a loaner ltd29 for other folk.
Also have a ham I use only when tailgating an offroad group of vehicles.(emergency THIS. I'm PREVENTING an emergency.)

They have their place.
But anyone who prefers CB over a cell phone due to a lack of knowledge or some odd comfort...should drastically consider or reconsider.

 

[16ACE27]

If you are on the fence about upgrading to Lithium!

I, myself, don't know enough about the Lithium batteries. I read, or see, about Lithium car batteries causing big fires, so I caution my thinking about them.

Different chemistry - N/A to RV LiFePO4 batteries.

 

[Bob Nodine]

If you are on the fence about upgrading to Lithium!

I, myself, don't know enough about the Lithium batteries. I read, or see, about Lithium car batteries causing big fires, so I caution my thinking about them.

Plus, at this time I have no interest in the expense of going solar. The panels, converters, and all else equipment needed. It would seem to me, with solar panels atop of the RV, their efficiency will be affected by getting dirty and needing cleaned off. What do folks do about that? Then, I guess a platform is needed, to reach them for cleaning?

Where I live, abutting to the Cherokee Natl Forest in SE Tennessee, near Ironsburg, the pine pollen covers everything thickly starting in the spring. We call it Pine Dander.

Then, after that, I guess there is a savings from boondocking weeks at a time, not paying for hook-ups. But then, what does everyone do? Do you carry portable septic dump tanks for that necessity?
Primitive is less than hook up spots in a campground too.

To each their own. I understand that. I guess I'm one of the not-for-me crowd at this time. Whatever my reasons may be.

Reading the threads are interesting to me, I am not condoning nor condemning the topic, and maybe one day I will convert, I just need tons of information when making such a decision. For me, right now is not the time to convert over.

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are used for RV's and now most automobiles. You could drive a railroad spike thru them and they will not catch fire.

When you are talking about cost of toys I throw all logic and frugal tendencies out the window. RVing is a hobby for me and modifications and maintenance are part of the entertainment. I often make modifications purely for the fun of it. I like the planning and tinkering. I even document what I do with write ups because I like to do that. I am a weird guy by most male standards. I don't like football, I don't play golf. I don't hunt. I have not wet a fishing line in years. What entertains me is RVing and all the stuff that goes along with it. Part of the fun of dry camping is seeing how self sufficient you can be. We carry gray water to the dump station daily and use a large bladder tank and pump to refill the fresh water tank every other day. We can go 5 to 7 days without emptying the black tank.

We have camped in 49 of the 50 states and 7 of the 10 Canadian provinces and one territory. We are planning a trip to Newfoundland in June and love to travel. Another hobby of mine is taking photographs of all the places we have been. I currently have 380 GB of digital photo graphs and videos stored. We are getting up there in years so we need to do these things while we can.

 

[Bob Nodine]

Bob - I may have missed reading, but have you switched your converter to a lithium charger? Most of the larger inverters are combination inverter/charger, and you have control over charge current.

Mine is infinitely adjustable from a trickle up to 100 amps for charging. So it will take current from the Li-BIM (engine), solar, shore power or generator in any combination and dump into the house batteries.

The charger manages the current supply and dumps any/all available to the batteries. The batteries BMS manage and determine if/when they need to receive charge.

We had a charger like that on the diesel pusher we owned for 14 years. Yes I have upgraded the converter to a lithium capable one. That is part of the problem. You see it has a microprocessor and looks at the battery charge current and voltage to decide what type of battery you have, flooded or Lithium. For some reason, I think it is because the Lithium voltage is about 13.6 volts, it will not stay in Bulk mode to get a fast charge on the batteries and insists on dropping back into absorption mode to charge. Maybe it still thinks we have flooded, I don't know. It works fine as long as you don't care how long you have to run the generator to charge back to 100 % SOC. We care and like to limit generator run time.

The reason we approached the problem the way we did was because we already had a factory installed 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter. We did not want to rip that and the converter out to install a combo inverter/charger with and internal transfer switch. Thus why we added a 100 amp bulk charger.

 

[DavidEM]

Bob,

What is the make/model of your “lithium capable” microprocessor controlled charger. I want to avoid that one.

David

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Bob... without knowing your system, it's possible the converter and your installed bulk charger are fighting each other? Maybe when the bulk charger is active the batteries are indicating a higher voltage... the converter is detecting the higher voltage, and thinking it's actually the battery voltage, limits the voltage passing to the battery bank?

Again I don't know how your system is wired up, but make sure the bulk charger is DIRECTLY wired to the batteries and not through a busbar. That way the batteries BMS should control charge cutoff... provided the bulk charger is in fact supplying the correct voltage.

Just food for thought.

 

[Bob Nodine]

Bob,

What is the make/model of your “lithium capable” microprocessor controlled charger. I want to avoid that one.

David

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY49TTLV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

 

[Bob Nodine]

Bob... without knowing your system, it's possible the converter and your installed bulk charger are fighting each other? Maybe when the bulk charger is active the batteries are indicating a higher voltage... the converter is detecting the higher voltage, and thinking it's actually the battery voltage, limits the voltage passing to the battery bank?

Again I don't know how your system is wired up, but make sure the bulk charger is DIRECTLY wired to the batteries and not through a busbar. That way the batteries BMS should control charge cutoff... provided the bulk charger is in fact supplying the correct voltage.

Just food for thought.

No, I did a lot of testing this week. I installed the bulk charger with an on/off switch so it is off unless I want it on. I can also turn off the converter with a circuit breaker in the power panel. I tried different scenarios because I also thought it was because one was seeing the voltage of the other. The photo below shows the on/off switch for the bulk charger in the up right corner.

Hind sight tells me maybe I should have done what you did and just rip out the converter and the inverter and install a charger/inverter in the place of the inverter. I might get bored someday and do just that. This one seems like it would fit the bill:https://tinyurl.com/2bqjbzpu

 

[DavidEM]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY49TTLV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Aha, WFCO! I should have known.

David

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

No, I did a lot of testing this week. I installed the bulk charger with an on/off switch so it is off unless I want it on. I can also turn off the converter with a circuit breaker in the power panel. I tried different scenarios because I also thought it was because one was seeing the voltage of the other. The photo below shows the on/off switch for the bulk charger in the up right corner.

Hind sight tells me maybe I should have done what you did and just rip out the converter and the inverter and install a charger/inverter in the place of the inverter. I might get bored someday and do just that. This one seems like it would fit the bill:https://tinyurl.com/2bqjbzpu

Me? I'd go with a Victron MultiPlus 2000 over Xantrex. Victron is the gold standard, and just WORKS. If you popped a MultiPlus in your rig, we'd never see a post about problems. Xantrex??

I have to admit I went with a Sungoldpower 3k unit, which was around $850 last year. It's way overkill for me... a 2k would have been perfect. But I poured over reviews and bought based on quality reviews, and of course price. If I were doing this project NOW, with getting a 2k MultiPlus in the $800 range... no question I would have gone Victron! It's the perfect tool for the job.

 

[Grease]

Bob: Thanks for the post about moving to lithium batteries. I am considering doing that. What camping rig do you have? Are you towing something or driving a class A or C rv? I have a class C, and I have heard that the lithium battery could damage my vehicle’s alternator. Any information you can share is appreciated.

Regards,

Grease

 

[Scubawise]

I agree with Ted above. Lights blinking have nothing to do with the type of batteries. Very likely it was caused by a bad connection at the battery terminals of the old batteries and replacing the batteries solved it.

I am sticking with my AGMs. They give me at least three days of dry camping until they get down to 50% SOC which is all I ever need.

David

Amen

 

[Scubawise]

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are used for RV's and now most automobiles. You could drive a railroad spike thru them and they will not catch fire.

When you are talking about cost of toys I throw all logic and frugal tendencies out the window. RVing is a hobby for me and modifications and maintenance are part of the entertainment. I often make modifications purely for the fun of it. I like the planning and tinkering. I even document what I do with write ups because I like to do that. I am a weird guy by most male standards. I don't like football, I don't play golf. I don't hunt. I have not wet a fishing line in years. What entertains me is RVing and all the stuff that goes along with it. Part of the fun of dry camping is seeing how self sufficient you can be. We carry gray water to the dump station daily and use a large bladder tank and pump to refill the fresh water tank every other day. We can go 5 to 7 days without emptying the black tank.

We have camped in 49 of the 50 states and 7 of the 10 Canadian provinces and one territory. We are planning a trip to Newfoundland in June and love to travel. Another hobby of mine is taking photographs of all the places we have been. I currently have 380 GB of digital photo graphs and videos stored. We are getting up there in years so we need to do these things while we can.

We upload camping trips to the Amazon cloud & create albums to send to family.

 

[16ACE27]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY49TTLV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

That's a 55 amp Converter upgrade, not a stand-alone bulk charger. Did you link the right thing?

 

[dkoldman]

The new Progressive Dynamics PD9300 Converter allows you to set the charge profile to your choice. If Lithium Battery type is selected when converter is 1st turned on it it will go to 14.0vdc for a preset time ( I believe it is 1 hour) then it switches to Absorption of 14.7vdc. That is when it looks for a predefined voltage drop based on current output to switch to Float which is 13.6vdc

I don't worry about my converter and DC2DC Bulk charger being in contention. The 50amp charger is reading voltage direct on both backs of battery and will drop down proportionately if Converter is on. It is rare that both would be on as my engine is not running if I am plugged in. The only time I know for sure is when driving and the genny is running.

I have a Remote Pendant to put my converter in Float mode (13.2) if I wanted to, but I never bother. Likewise I could use the Victron App to turn off the Bulk Charger but if I am driving I will never do because the fridge is always running.

The way I view is that if I have consumed more than 50 ahs and if genny has to come on for air (ACs) while driving, it will just help me recharge a tad faster than the Orion XS would do by itself.

I like my independent Converter, Charger & Inverter setup All new and all for around $600. Thus far I have never dropped below 71% Lithium battery capacity with my usage patterns and I have had a few trips now.

 

[Bob Nodine]

That's a 55 amp Converter upgrade, not a stand-alone bulk charger. Did you link the right thing?

Ted, you missed something. I upgraded the Converter and also installed a 100 amp bulk charger. Below is a photo of the 100 amp charger in one of the outside storage compartments. I have a switch on it and only turn it on when dry camping to reduce generator run time. It does much better than the truck alternator for building back up the batteries. All other times we just rely on the Converter, 900 watts of solar, and the engine alternator for charging the batteries. When dry camping the generator and the bulk charger are the fastest way to get the batteries built back up after going all night with the residential frig, the Starlink, lights, laptop computer use, and watching several hours of television plus making two cups of coffee with the Keurig. By morning we are down about 180 amp hours. Even with the 100 amp charger it takes almost 2 hours of generator run time.

 

[Bob Nodine]

Bob: Thanks for the post about moving to lithium batteries. I am considering doing that. What camping rig do you have? Are you towing something or driving a class A or C rv? I have a class C, and I have heard that the lithium battery could damage my vehicle’s alternator. Any information you can share is appreciated.

Regards,

Grease

We have a 2022 Quantum JM31 Class C motorhome that is built on a Ford E-450 chassis with a 240 amp alternator. I have no fear of burning up the alternator charging the Lithium batteries. We have four 100 amp hour Lithium batteries. We tow a 2023 Chevy Colorado Z71 truck.

Many automobiles and some small trucks have light duty alternators in the 130 amp range. If they are tasked with charging the chassis battery and operating the vehicle plus charging the house batteries and loads then they often overheat. That is where the burned out alternator stories come from. You can change out the BIM to a LBIM that will time how long the alternator is connected to the house. That is what most do. Some install DC to DC chargers.

 

[Bob Nodine]

Me? I'd go with a Victron MultiPlus 2000 over Xantrex. Victron is the gold standard, and just WORKS. If you popped a MultiPlus in your rig, we'd never see a post about problems. Xantrex??

I have to admit I went with a Sungoldpower 3k unit, which was around $850 last year. It's way overkill for me... a 2k would have been perfect. But I poured over reviews and bought based on quality reviews, and of course price. If I were doing this project NOW, with getting a 2k MultiPlus in the $800 range... no question I would have gone Victron! It's the perfect tool for the job.

I like it. Will scratch the Xantrex and make the Victron MultiPlus 2000 my first choice should I choose to make the change.