Nightmare New 2023 Thor Gemini

Question for dk... do you feel you paid a premium for the WBGO name? Granted the quality, perceived or not, is there regardless. But comparing floorplans, was your out-the-door price appreciably more than a similar Thor unit?

You want the Truth? I may get kicked out the forum :LOL::LOL:

When we 1st decided to buy a RV, we wanted the Thor 28z. I saw a dealer that had one on sale in Oklahoma. But since that same dealer had locations in Dallas area, we go by to see it locally. The local dealer says they didn't sale Thor's :eek: I had the WTF look, but turns out they only sold Winnebago's at the Texas locations. I calmed down to let them show us the WBGO equivalent of the 28z because we were not going to Oklahoma. So he takes us out to see a Minnie Winnie :eek: I had never heard of it, and I think I pissed the Salesman off, because I told him I would NEVER buy anything called a Minnie Winnie unless it was for my daughter. No offense to Minnie Winnie owners, but the name would never fly for my personality. So he takes us to see the WBGO Class As which I immediately look at the prices and said we can't afford. So at that point a WBGO was out the mix and something I would never buy. Too expensive Class As, and a girlie man name in the Minnie Winnie.

We would eventually start shopping Thor's exclusively. Thor had all of the bells and whistles and affordable pricing. But after our 2nd failed Thor PDI, and an arrogant Sales / Finance Manager, I had had enough. I did try one more Thor Dealer who lied about the status of a RV listed on their website. They had us driving 5 hours one way for nothing. It was that day we decided we were not going to buy a Thor. It was also at that point when we felt embarrassed after telling everyone we were buying a RV and we kept coming up with a big ole bag of nothing.

Then one day in Nov 2019; the Class A WBGO we saw and only dreamed about was on sale online at La Mesa RVs in several states (AZ, NM, & FL). There are no La Mesa RV Dealers in Texas. The WBGO price while at a premium over the equivalent Thor Windsport/Hurricane; it was well under what the local Dealer was asking. The La Mesa RV I bought from in Florida sold both WBGO and Thor.

It was bold move for my wife and I to buy one tickets to Florida to go buy an RV we had not seen knowing we would have a 15 hour shakedown trip to return home. But by then, I just wanted an RV and the Thor Dealers had just pissed me off; so yes it was well worth it to pay more to NOT have to deal with those Thor Dealers. We spent 6 hours doing a PDI in Florida, but we found nothing wrong. It was night & day experience.

Now my Disclaimer, and to Thor's defense. I am a very thrifty person, but I am not cheap. I want the best for my money. However, I had a tendency to always be attracted to the lowest price RV on the lot for the model I wanted. I guess they were lowest price for a reason because they had been on the lot the longest and prone to more issues caused by sitting on the lot. i.e. damaged pantry doors, corroded battery compartments, faulty slides, cracked decals, dry rotted curtain etc. One RV had 60 plus issues. Most were not the type of issues from the factory. I talked with TMC while inside those RVs confirming if it was a warranty issue or not. The Dealer would not fix issues, so I walked. Contrary to what I read on this forum, I am not gonna spend 2 years fixing things, and I am certainly not going to buy a Used one hoping somebody else fixed it.
 
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I agree with your point, but I don't see where anyone say's 'its all your fault " ? What did I miss.

FWIW, I found an issue with the SOB coach that I bought that did pass my 6 hour PDI. After a few months of ownership, knowing that my gray tank was full; I mistakenly kept using the bathroom sink thinking it was going to the black tank. It was not. The gray tank did not back to the shower as you would think, rather the fitting over the gray tank was loose so all of the gray overflow went into lower compartment :facepalm:

I guess I could have bashed WBGO's quality, but I didn't. I assume that is what the warranty is for. Now I did have to call WBGO directly to get it fixed with priority because the dealer would have taken 2 months back then. It was fixed in a week. But to your point, no one is going to test a full black or full gray tank. There are PDI Checklist to tell you the type of things to check. I think the goal is to not miss anything major that is easy check or the obvious.

Note: OP was a one post & done, not sure he even came back to read post #2 or anything else?

I have read on here more then once ,that someone should have found issues with a walk through ( your fault? ) & I was trying to sooth his thoughts ,because I know it seems he was overwhelmed with the issue on a brand new RV .
 
I have read on here more then once ,that someone should have found issues with a walk through ( your fault? ) & I was trying to sooth his thoughts ,because I know it seems he was overwhelmed with the issue on a brand new RV .

Okay, I was thinking it was this thread :thumb:

I have seen it stated on other the threads as well that others should have done a walkthrough PDI) and in some cases depending on the issue should have been caught. (i.e. generator does not work, no running water, lights don't work without shorepower etc.), but I think it is more of some other poster saying should've - could've versus "it is your fault". It may very be intended as help for the next guy (newbie) that is reading these threads BEFORE they buy. I know it helped me. Well schooled from what I learned on this site before I bought, I may have overdone my PDIs (if that is possible :nonono: ) I actually sent that Thor Vegas PDI checklist from Ed Felker's manual to the WBGO dealer I bought from a week before my trip to buy a SOB and had them confirm that all those items were checked. Knowing my history of 2 previous failed PDIs; they were willing to help me be comfortable with the purchase. Without this Thor Forum, I would NOT be any kind of RV owner. I am on other Forums too, but this one is where I started first because I really wanted a Thor, it truly educates me the best with tough love, and has saved me thousands of dollars, and a lot of grief prevention. When you got the money and a new shiny toy flashing in front of you, it is hard to walk away and judgement can become impaired by hope & wishful thinking.
 
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Hope the 1st time poster gets everything fixed quickly and for all the thor haters,why are you still on this forum,isn't it time to move on.1/2 years full-time in thor challenger still very happy with our purchase :hide: I'm only here to help when I can.
 
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Well I'm not a Thor hater , but I will never purchase another RV from them ( yes ,TMC does own a lot of the brands )& I have said so to anyone thats interested in a class" B" RV ,no matter where I drive the RV & its my daily driver ,people come up to me to talk about it , its all about QC, its bad almost everywhere in the RV .

The Sprinter 4x4 Van has been great , I really like it .
 
Well I'm not a Thor hater , but I will never purchase another RV from them ( yes ,TMC does own a lot of the brands )& I have said so to anyone thats interested in a class" B" RV ,no matter where I drive the RV & its my daily driver ,people come up to me to talk about it , its all about QC, its bad almost everywhere in the RV .

The Sprinter 4x4 Van has been great , I really like it .

TMC doesn’t own anything. TMC is an operating unit of Thor Industries who owns the other brands such as
Tiffin, Jayco etc…. Those other brands do not come under the management or control of Thor Motor Coach.

Might want to get your facts straight before bashing someone or something.
 
this reminds me of back in apr 2009
we arrived to pick up the tuscany
when we got there it was idling under a huge shaded parking are, we started walking around and looking at stuff, before the sale guy figured out we were there


i noticed oil on the ground near the engine
made a mental note






we all went inside to sign papers and i asked about the oil on the ground, as i was not signing anything until we figured it out




i left the room and grabbed coveralls out of my truck
slid under the bus and watched as every now and then oil would squirt oout of the block about 2 inches below the head


a mechanic joined me shortly and we both laid there for what seemed like a day, watching oil go squirt.
finally he says to me...this is not right and we shut it down

i went in and said WE NO BUY today and started to leave




they called cummins and the whole world and within 2 hrs it was decided we needed a new block and cummins would take the bus in 2 months and replace engine and get it back to us....WHOOOOOOOAAAH nope

we started the leave and they magically found us the exact same bus at the other lot with inverted paint scheme as the one we were going to buy
s next day we took delivery of the bus we have now


we dont know if OP did a pre inspection or not
i sure hope OP did, but if OP did not.. i still feel bad for OP as the rig is new and should be made whole expeditiously
parts are available its horrible to have to go through such bs on a new rig


i thought a full run of all systems was required at delivery, maybe things have changed
 
i thought a full run of all systems was required at delivery, maybe things have changed

It is: by the buyer at delivery to the buyer. Expectations of any checks by the dealer ahead of time are fictitious. Unfortunately, not a car buying experience nor car warranty service.
 


i thought a full run of all systems was required at delivery, maybe things have changed

I bought new from Forest River, Thor, and Entegra. The only manufacturer that required the dealer to inspect the coach and conduct a walk through with the buyer was Entegra.

With Entegra I had to acknowledge about 40 different items were explained and/or demonstrated and that signed form was sent to Entegra as part of the warranty registration process.

Things have not changed, ask anyone that bought from Camping World. They charge big time to do PDIs.
 
TMC doesn’t own anything. TMC is an operating unit of Thor Industries who owns the other brands such as
Tiffin, Jayco etc…. Those other brands do not come under the management or control of Thor Motor Coach.

Might want to get your facts straight before bashing someone or something.

And you believe they have no influence on them ? Really , they are not the same ?
 
we got ours at Mc Clains in denton
they bent over backwards during PDI and post sale to make us happy
spent many nights in their service Campground , they fetch you in the morning, drive bus into service bay, plug you in and connect pwr and cable tv.. we even made fresh cookies in the service bay while the tech fixed the cameras...dogs gave him kisses and he got some fresh cookies
 
I don't have much to add to the other comments, but just to commiserate a bit...


We've owned a new Thor Sanctuary 19P for under 3 months and it is now sitting in an "authorized Thor Service Center" for an expected 2 to 3 months awaiting warranty repairs! (holiday season and all that)



Some of the issues are major, like secondary alternator won't charge house battery so we had to find RV parks or some way to charge it every other day on our first 5 week cross country road trip. A "significant" (repairman's assessment) propane leak due to improperly fastened tank connection. Or problems with burning and irritated eyes that left us wondering whether we had leaks in heater ducting. Other issues are rather minor like blade valve on gray water dump outlet fell off due to poor gluing, or screen slider on sliding door and applique on dash both fell off due to being held on only by two sided tape. Winegard needed to be reset, but no on/off switch inside requiring removal of unit cover on top of RV and reset on mother board. Pantry cabinet bowed so shelves don't fit and consequently, fall down while driving.


Thor tech reps have mostly tried to be helpful, but many of them are simply reading from a script. I had a small argument with one lady who insisted that a fuse was located in a spot that I was standing and looking at. I sent her a picture of what I was looking at and I never heard from her again. On the other hand, one tech worked with me until we found the one master GFI reset location...on the underside of the pantry where no one would have seen or known to look for it. My point here is that there is good and not so good when it comes to Thor tech support.


I could go on, but I think you get the gist of this...Thor is over engineered and under built. In theory, it's a great unit, in practice, it doesn't work very well.



We haven't given up yet, though. When we get it back sometime next spring, we're going to try another road trip and if all works out better, we'll look forward to years (hopefully) of fun RV-ing. If it doesn't, we'll sell and go back to boating. Good luck and happy holidays to all of you out there!
 
Thor Gemini Brand new 2023 RV maiden journey issue synopsis
No help from Thor .....
1. Generator does not function. As such we were unable to use the RV off-grid due to lack of heat and electric. The vehicle was inspected by two separate service centers (one an authorized Cummins dealer) which determine the issue to be a defective fuel pump. Despite a replacement fuel pump being unavailable and thus leaving us without off-grid power, the service centers decline our request to have the entire generator replaced. From this point forward we can not RV camp anywhere that does not provide a suitable power grid connection. This changes our plans and expenses dramatically.
2. Water does not work unless connected to outside water source. Called Thor tech support and after hours of troubleshooting were unsuccessful in getting water from our fresh water tank. This once again limits our ability to camp, now restricting us to only facilities which supply a pressurized water source.
3. Slide-out living compartment has continually been problematic. Slide would stall repeatedly and eventually failed altogether. Brought RV to authorized service center in Michigan which after a full day of troubleshooting determined the slide motor and slide tracks to be defective. Service center was unable to repair the issue with parts on-hand and was also unable to source the parts in a timely manner, leaving us now with a vehicle we could not sleep in and requiring us to pay for hotels for overnight accommodation.
4. Onboard Sync navigation not functional. Issue was apparent on day one when driving the vehicle home after taking delivery. After back-and-forth with the dealership, they reported finding an improperly installed wire which would become pinched and cut signal, which was said to be repaired. After this we began to experience complete shut downs of the system. A Ford tech told us to bring vehicle to a service center and disconnect battery for reset – which we did and paid for this service – only temporarily fixed issue, issue has continued since.
5. Solar panel was not properly secured, causing it to detach from the roof under normal highway driving conditions. This caused it to fall onto the highway while driving and endanger other motorists, as well as leaving us without a solar power source.
6. The control screen displays a heat pump button which lights up when selected, but is nonfunctional. Told by service center that there is no heat pump installed in the vehicle, but it is normal for the button to appear anyway, despite it obviously causing confusion for users.
7. Various interior cosmetic and functional issues:
a. Bed retaining strap holders came detached from wall.
b. Screws coming through fronts of slide out drawers in dining area.
c. Dining room drawers drag on floor when side is being extended and retracted.
d. Closet mirror continually coming off track.
e. The tracks on multiple drawers broke.
f. Bathroom paneling beginning to come off of wall.
g. Velcro tabs around front windshield fastened into nothing of substance, thus falling out when curtain is attached to them.
h. Piece of air vent over bed came off.
The vehicle currently sits at the dealership where it was purchased as part of indefinite repairs – leaving us without a unit with which we are unable to travel but for which we are still paying the loan and insurance.

The link from dkoldman was very good. I will give my two cents worth.

1. You can't expect Cummins to replace the entire generator due to a defective fuel pump. It was Thor's responsibility (and yours in the PDI) to test it. So let them fix it. You could offer to expedite the fuel pump but since the rest of the rig won't operate that isn't necessary.
2. This is aggravating but it is simple to troubleshoot yourself. Disconnect the line at the pump inlet to see if there is water and if so remove the line at the pump discharge and turn on the pump and see if it is pumping. But since the rest of the rig is in for repairs have the dealer fix this also.
3. I don't have a slide out but they seem to be common problems. Have it fixed by the dealer and ask if you can watch. You may need to do it again in the future.
4. Intermittent electrical problems are difficult and most repair people will not spend sufficient time to find the problem. If they make a change and it works then to them it is fixed. You are going to have to trace all of the wiring looking for problems. Since a reset was a temporary fix it sounds as if you still have some pinched or grounding wiring.
5. The solar panel is a real bummer. I tried to check everything on the roof during the PDI (my rig does NOT have a ladder which my wife reminds me every time we see a similar rig with a ladder) but the dealership would not let me up on the roof. That was sort of a mistake but as soon as I got it home I got up on the roof and found some caulking issues and the TPO had some bubbles in it. I took the unit back to the dealer to fix the caulking issues. While I was up on the roof I check the solar panel and the air conditioner mounting. Luckily all was good. Get used to going up on the roof because you should be checking it at least every six months if not more. A tree branch got my refrigerator vent while I was traveling and I replaced it as soon as I found a dealer with one in stock.
6.Not certain about the heat pump but that would be a major electrical draw (like an air conditioner). Check you air conditioner model number to see if it is indeed a heat pump. If it is then have the dealer fix the display. If not you could read the display manual to see if there is a configuration change you can make to keep the heat pump from lighting.
7. See if you can have the dealer fix all of these issues while the major issues are being repaired. However these type of issues come up all of the time so start practicing your repair skills.

If I was unable to work on and fix most RV systems myself, I would be unable to afford an RV. I think my local dealer charges about $175/hour for people that don't know as much about the systems as I do. They certainly won't put in the time for troubleshooting difficult problems. So I do almost everything myself. You will be happier if you are reasonably self sufficient but I still would try to get the dealer to make everything right the first time, at least the things that keep you from using the RV.
 
Can you read this Post

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f...commendations-first-time-rv-owners-34615.html

Then come back with what you think, want and/or plan of action for next steps or help.

Good luck.


Wow, it would have been helpful to have read that post before our purchase. But we did ask ourselves many of those questions before we bought. My wife is actually the mechanically inclined one of us, and she did work with Thor support in an effort to fix several of the issues, but without success. And she did fix a lot of the minor interior issues. I just wanted to mention them in my post, so people were aware of all the things that happened to this vehicle on its first trip.

Right now, the RV is in the shop (for the past 2 mths). We have reached out to Thor and they have offer a ridiculous 6 mth extended warrantee, but only on the work that is currently being done, and if we take it we agree to not seek any other claims against Thor. Needless to say, we are not signing it, and are currently seeking advice from an attorney.
 
Wow, it would have been helpful to have read that post before our purchase. But we did ask ourselves many of those questions before we bought. My wife is actually the mechanically inclined one of us, and she did work with Thor support in an effort to fix several of the issues, but without success. And she did fix a lot of the minor interior issues. I just wanted to mention them in my post, so people were aware of all the things that happened to this vehicle on its first trip.

Right now, the RV is in the shop (for the past 2 mths). We have reached out to Thor and they have offer a ridiculous 6 mth extended warrantee, but only on the work that is currently being done, and if we take it we agree to not seek any other claims against Thor. Needless to say, we are not signing it, and are currently seeking advice from an attorney.

Sounds like I could use your wife's help a couple of times a year. My wife won't even sit in the drivers seat; especially if the engine is running :LOL:

I assume Thor's 6 months offer would begin from when you get it back. Unless you just know someone, I would hold off on the attorney just now. But I would ask Thor to allow any such start of an offer of agreement to commence 30 days after you receive the RV back from dealer. I would think if they are reasonable on your plight they allow you to verify all is resolved and that you have no other PDI like concerns.

Seems like you and Thor MC should agree on some date whereby everything known to be an issue attributed to TMC is identified and fixed. If you get there, and you know you are happy; you become like all of the other happy customers. At that junction it is not likely you will ever find cause to want to sue them. That would be a very uphill battle, because the fine print will not be in your favor.

IMO I would like to think that if something relevant was fixed on your coach under warranty, and it broke again 3 months after the warranty expired that Thor Motor Coach would goodwill the fix for you. Maybe not a roof leak though. :nonono:

For example... WBGO goodwilled me a few items for us that HAD NOT been reported as an issue 1 1/2 after after the warranty was over; meaning we had had the coach 2 1/2 years. I suspect it was in part due to notes in my file on our serial # and telephone number because every time I talked with them it was nothing but praise. I would say half my calls was due to mods I had made and I shared the wiring or changes I was making so it would be on my coach for the next guy, or when I get old enough to forget what the hell I did :whistling: i.e. one of our engine hood brackets that was attached to the inside fiberglass broke off on a trip. I was out of warranty and the local dealer wanted almost $2,000 to repair. They were going to replace both brackets & hinges using the official WBGO repair procedure. Well I took issue with that because the WBGO procedure was a redo of an obvious poor design. I googled and learned that the issue was very common on a lot of WBGOs, I could not believe that I had not heard of to at least look for the issue before I lost parts. But what WBGO did was to send me the parts at no cost and allowed me to redesign as I saw fit. I had my mobile Tech fabricate steel bracket structs that attached to the engine frame that provided support to the new OEM brackets. It prevented the vibration of the steel on the fiberglass hood that had over time managed to shear itself free from the poorly chosen epoxy. Additionally the new design ( my fabricated fix) would not allow a steel part to fall to possibly damage the undercarriage or a tire, or be lost. I paid the mobile tech $500 and I was a happy camper. I sent the pictures to WGBO of the design change. They said they would share with Engineering. I check it every time I raise the hood and it won't budge.

You bought that RV for reason, give them the chance to fix it right, just try to get to that day. In my case the TMC Old Grumpy Finance Manager Dealer flat out told me they were NOT going to fix stuff and I had a buy or walk option. As I think about, one day I should go back to that Dealer and if he is still there give him a $50 Thank You Card, if he gives me that same look, I will say hey "take it, or leave it, I can find someone else willing to take the $50 :rofl:
 
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Moral to the story... do exhaustive research and know your limits when purchasing big ticket items. It's why you pay a home inspector. It's why you hire out electrical, plumbing or carpentry work if it's not in your skill set or "desire" set.

Our first RV was a trailer. I took a FULL YEAR researching as much information as possible. I was EXTREMELY lucky in getting a decently built Grand Design. However, I had a rude awakening discovering the glue, staples, leftover sawdust and dismal wiring - all hidden by the glitz. Fortunately there were very few problems... most minor.

We were lucky to have that trailer as a learning experience. AND I am fortunate to be able and willing to do most routine maintenance and repair myself... which came from owning several "older" houses.

If I were buying a new RV today, Judge's post would be my blueprint for success. BUT... even then there's no guarantee things won't break or you find something hidden.

If you're not mechanically capable, comfortable with tools or just lack the desire to work on an RV yourself (within reasonable limits) I would recommend having the equivalent of the purchase price set aside to pay for properly maintaining the RV. Yes... that's DOUBLE the price. Because my rough calculations to date show that I've paid about half price for projects that would have cost double hired out. A few of those decisions left me with busted knuckles and wondering if I am a glutton for punishment! But one fact is certain... RV ownership isn't cheap... and the purchase price is only the start!
 
Solar Panel

I lost my 2023 solar panel too...freeway at 70 mph during rush hour. Heard a horrible bang bang then nothing. Finally was able to get off freeway and saw it was gone....3 of the brackets were still there, the 4th was pulled out.

Funny thing....I had a THOR Sequence with a glued on solar panel...and it ripped off too. I must be solar panel allergic...ha.
 

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