Persistent Electrical Issues:

[Ken47]

2023 Thor Scope 18M-S; with
RAM Promaster 1500 chassis.

As new RVers in our 70s, I stand in awe of your creativity, resiliency, and self-sufficiency. I am hoping for a referral to an auto electrical expert who can do for me, what you all do so well for yourselves.

I have previously related bizarre electrical meltdowns to this group. They began with the chassis battery repeatedly going dead, eventually recognized by the RAM dealer (long after it was mentioned here) as due to an ongoing drain from the Winegard antenna. In their only helpful response, a (THE?) nice person at Thor customer service put one of their mechanics in touch with mine. Thor’s recommended solution was to disconnect the breaker or fuse that powers the Winegard, which worked. Currently no Wi-Fi, but based on their own admission of creative wiring and “we’ve seen this before” comments from Winegard, I have no doubt that something bad, unpredictable and electrical will happen with that disconnect as soon as I venture farther than a few miles from home. So no RVing. I have failed to get a response for warranty repair from TMC or the three dealers within 60 miles of my house.
In addition to reconnecting the Winegard, my questions center around what other features of the coach have been disabled by pulling whatever plug was used to stop the battery drain? .

I was hoping someone here could point me towards a person who could fix this for me. I would be grateful to pay their usual hourly rate. I know that some of you incredibly good-hearted folks will offer DIY suggestions, but I also know my limitations. We are in the suburban Philadelphia area, but I would drag this thing halfway across the country if I could then stop worrying about it and start enjoying it.

A Personal Note: I bought this in the fall. No trips in the bad weather of the winter. In the shop for 80+ days this sprin while RAM tried to figure out Thor’s screwup. The original plan was to provide my wife, with her Crohn's disease, a portable lavatory so we could take day trips to visit friends and family for the first time in years. We had even planned to travel 300 miles to view the recent total eclipse. Nothing says “once in a lifetime” to a 77-year-old couple with their first RV and their 6th Great Dane, like “Last Chance to See a Total Solar Eclipse in the US until 2044!”

I am grateful for the attention of this list and eagerly anticipate any suggestions.

Ken

 

[Mark54]

2023 Thor Scope 18M-S; with
RAM Promaster 1500 chassis.

As new RVers in our 70s, I stand in awe of your creativity, resiliency, and self-sufficiency. I am hoping for a referral to an auto electrical expert who can do for me, what you all do so well for yourselves.

I have previously related bizarre electrical meltdowns to this group. They began with the chassis battery repeatedly going dead, eventually recognized by the RAM dealer (long after it was mentioned here) as due to an ongoing drain from the Winegard antenna. In their only helpful response, a (THE?) nice person at Thor customer service put one of their mechanics in touch with mine. Thor’s recommended solution was to disconnect the breaker or fuse that powers the Winegard, which worked. Currently no Wi-Fi, but based on their own admission of creative wiring and “we’ve seen this before” comments from Winegard, I have no doubt that something bad, unpredictable and electrical will happen with that disconnect as soon as I venture farther than a few miles from home. So no RVing. I have failed to get a response for warranty repair from TMC or the three dealers within 60 miles of my house.
In addition to reconnecting the Winegard, my questions center around what other features of the coach have been disabled by pulling whatever plug was used to stop the battery drain? .

I was hoping someone here could point me towards a person who could fix this for me. I would be grateful to pay their usual hourly rate. I know that some of you incredibly good-hearted folks will offer DIY suggestions, but I also know my limitations. We are in the suburban Philadelphia area, but I would drag this thing halfway across the country if I could then stop worrying about it and start enjoying it.

A Personal Note: I bought this in the fall. No trips in the bad weather of the winter. In the shop for 80+ days this sprin while RAM tried to figure out Thor’s screwup. The original plan was to provide my wife, with her Crohn's disease, a portable lavatory so we could take day trips to visit friends and family for the first time in years. We had even planned to travel 300 miles to view the recent total eclipse. Nothing says “once in a lifetime” to a 77-year-old couple with their first RV and their 6th Great Dane, like “Last Chance to See a Total Solar Eclipse in the US until 2044!”

I am grateful for the attention of this list and eagerly anticipate any suggestions.

Ken

The 2022 and later Tellaros, Sequences, Scopes, and Rize models with lithium batteries and under-hood generator have one bad design problem in common.

The chassis battery will die in less than a week- no 'bi-directional' charging in these as there is no BIM or device to allow it. Mine dies in 4 days!!

So you have to use a trickle charger on the jumper posts under the bonnet when parked for 2-3 days or more. I did that until I made a more permanent solution.

I installed a trickle charger so when plugged in, my 120V system is live and I feed the hot side of the e-start Trombetta solenoid for B+, and ground buss bar for B-.

Those are likely underneath, so you'd have to feed wire thru the floor to the solenoid, then to the battery side of the shunt, and install a dedicated outlet and plug into shoreline.

DC-DC charger would probably be easiest, instead of a 120VAC unit, as then you do not need the 120VAC outlet- just wire from coach batteries to solenoid and ground. Fuse is needed on the B+ side.
You still need to feed top the chassis B+ hot side of the solenoid as well, then to ground anywhere you can find- locate charger inside- not underneath!! Run B+ cable thru floor chase if you can find it.

Renogy makes a nice DCDC charger, and is pretty easy to set up. You should still should plug into shoreline to keep the chassis battery charged, or you'll drain the coach batteries!

Hire a mobile tech or boatyard to install if you are not comfy doing yourself- most dealers are clueless about this sort of thing.

https://www.renogy.com/12v-20a-dc-to-dc-on-board-battery-charger/

 

[Ken47]

Thanks, That's what I'm talking about!
Ken

 

[Mark54]

Thanks, That's what I'm talking about!
Ken

I moved my batteries up and upgraded to 600A, then all the electrics too- took me 5 days. Then I added the extra 120V outlet and converted the outlet in hallway to a switch, so I can use just a 2A NOCO trickle charger.

I also have 380W solar so I can be unplugged all the time during storage, and inverter is on to run that 2A trickler. At 79% today- good to exercise the batteries when not camping.

PM me with your email so I can send my list of mods- one important one is plugging the open holes on the UHG grey modular plug up front. Otherwise they collect water and can cause bigger problems. One owner had his sieze up b/c of those being open and exposed.

1st, 3rd and 4th pics are after the battery/electrical move. Solenoid is sparkly now...

2nd pic shows what the e-start solenoid looks like underneath- only 1 yr old and pretty dirty already. Moved up inside and stays a lot cleaner now... Use tester to find the B+ hot side to the chassis battery. That's where you would connect the B+ on the DCDC charger. Actually one cable goes to the B+ buss bar, so the other one is the hot side for chassis battery. (check anyways)

 

[Ken47]

When I find someone to work on it, I will definitely pass these along

 

[Mark54]

When I find someone to work on it, I will definitely pass these along

I have a pdf on my 'battery move' and upgrade to 600Ah. If you can fit 400Ah batteries where I put mine (under pass. bed in 20L) then go for it- the bigger the better. If you do not change the usage, (or amps drawn) thsn can probably keep the 2/0 wiring, esp. if you bring it all up inside, lessening the distance from battery to buss bars.

PM me for the file w/ your email if you want to see it-

 

[Ken47]

Very much appreciate it. I will assuredly get back to you if more battery is an issue once we see whatever loads appear when the fuse is replaced and the antenna remains cut out.
Ken

 

[dkoldman]

2023 Thor Scope 18M-S; with
RAM Promaster 1500 chassis.

As new RVers in our 70s, I stand in awe of your creativity, resiliency, and self-sufficiency. I am hoping for a referral to an auto electrical expert who can do for me, what you all do so well for yourselves.

eventually recognized by the RAM dealer (long after it was mentioned here) as due to an ongoing drain from the Winegard antenna. Thor’s recommended solution was to disconnect the breaker or fuse that powers the Winegard, which worked.

So no RVing. I have failed to get a response for warranty repair from TMC or the three dealers within 60 miles of my house.
In addition to reconnecting the Winegard, my questions center around what other features of the coach have been disabled by pulling whatever plug was used to stop the battery drain? .

A Personal Note: I bought this in the fall. No trips in the bad weather of the winter. In the shop for 80+ days this sprin while RAM tried to figure out Thor’s screwup. The original plan was to provide my wife, with her Crohn's disease, a portable lavatory so we could take day trips to visit friends and family for the first time in years. We had even planned to travel 300 miles to view the recent total eclipse. Nothing says “once in a lifetime” to a 77-year-old couple with their first RV and their 6th Great Dane, like “Last Chance to See a Total Solar Eclipse in the US until 2044!”


Ken

The 2022 and later Tellaros, Sequences, Scopes, and Rize models with lithium batteries and under-hood generator have one bad design problem in common.

The chassis battery will die in less than a week- no 'bi-directional' charging in these as there is no BIM or device to allow it. Mine dies in 4 days!!

DC-DC charger would probably be easiest, instead of a 120VAC unit, as then you do not need the 120VAC outlet- just wire from coach batteries to solenoid and ground. Fuse is needed on the B+ side.
You still need to feed top the chassis B+ hot side of the solenoid as well, then to ground anywhere you can find- locate charger inside- not underneath!! Run B+ cable thru floor chase if you can find it.

Renogy makes a nice DCDC charger, and is pretty easy to set up. You should still should plug into shoreline to keep the chassis battery charged, or you'll drain the coach batteries!

Hire a mobile tech or boatyard to install if you are not comfy doing yourself- most dealers are clueless about this sort of thing.

https://www.renogy.com/12v-20a-dc-to-dc-on-board-battery-charger/

Wow a lot to unpack here.

First I hope you proceed to get the fixes needed ASAP so that you and the wife can enjoy.

I would dump the Winegard even without the issues you are reporting, there are simpler ways to get WiFi

I would go crazy if my chassis would die in less than a week, I can go 3 months, that is longest I have actually needed to go with without SP and that was when it was brand new.

If you consider the recommended Renogy 20 amp charger, I have brand new Renogy 40amp charger that I just received but decided to not use, I am going to go with a Victron Energy 50amp model that I just found out about after ordering my Renogy. Send me a PM and I can send you the link, https://www.ebay.com/itm/285957242771. This unit at 40amps is twice the power to recharge if needed.

Good luck

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Wow a lot to unpack here.

First I hope you proceed to get the fixes needed ASAP so that you and the wife can enjoy.

I would dump the Winegard even without the issues you are reporting, there are simpler ways to get WiFi

I would go crazy if my chassis would die in less than a week, I can go 3 months, that is longest I have actually needed to go with without SP and that was when it was brand new.

If you consider the recommended Renogy 20 amp charger, I have brand new Renogy 40amp charger that I just received but decided to not use, I am going to go with a Victron Energy 50amp model that I just found out about after ordering my Renogy. Send me a PM and I can send you the link, https://www.ebay.com/itm/285957242771. This unit at 40amps is twice the power to recharge if needed.

Good luck

My Winegard is basically a useless decoration on the roof. I upgraded the phone app and gave it one last chance. Even after resetting to factory default it won't connect anymore. So much for the "upgraded" app :nonono:. I'd leave power disconnected but I need it occasionally for the OTA TV antenna in the Winegard dome.

Odd that the OP's chassis battery drained from the Winegard?? WHY would that be connected to the chassis battery instead of house battery(s) ???

 

[dkoldman]

My Winegard is basically a useless decoration on the roof. I upgraded the phone app and gave it one last chance. Even after resetting to factory default it won't connect anymore. So much for the "upgraded" app :nonono:. I'd leave power disconnected but I need it occasionally for the OTA TV antenna in the Winegard dome.

Odd that the OP's chassis battery drained from the Winegard?? WHY would that be connected to the chassis battery instead of house battery(s) ???

We have this OEM King on our roof, and I have a separate portable King in a very nice bag that we could use to get around trees or obstruction. https://www.amazon.com/KING-OA1501-...8e887614517639dc95f2689e81d44cc9&gad_source=1

It is very rare we need OTA, but we do on occasion. When we do the OEM on the roof is just fine.

The power for out antenna is on House. I remember going a round with WBGO because that little LED to power cable was not going off when I had disconnected the house batteries. I lost because it was in fact turning off, at least when talking with them on the phone :whistling: I believe some juice was somewhere and I just did not give it enough for LED to go out. WBGO assured me that when that disconnect is off (Relay opened) we have Zero draw. The only thing that bypasses the disconnect switches on my coach is the Kwikee steps on the chassis battery. Now that DC to DC that I am looking at may use to 20 - 25 milivolts to be able to sense when alternator has started?

 

[Mark54]

Wow a lot to unpack here.

First I hope you proceed to get the fixes needed ASAP so that you and the wife can enjoy.

I would dump the Winegard even without the issues you are reporting, there are simpler ways to get WiFi

I would go crazy if my chassis would die in less than a week, I can go 3 months, that is longest I have actually needed to go with without SP and that was when it was brand new.

If you consider the recommended Renogy 20 amp charger, I have brand new Renogy 40amp charger that I just received but decided to not use, I am going to go with a Victron Energy 50amp model that I just found out about after ordering my Renogy. Send me a PM and I can send you the link, https://www.ebay.com/itm/285957242771. This unit at 40amps is twice the power to recharge if needed.

Good luck

If you go with the 40A charger, make sure you're wired for that size.

I put one in my Rialta and blew a fuse b/c I had 10AWG wire, so I upgraded to 6AWG and fixed the problem. I also had 50A fuses. I was also charging the coach batteries, not the chassis battery in that rig, so I needed more amps, as I upgraded from 200A to 414A battery system.

So as I have always said- mind your amp draw and wire accordingly.
20A is more than enough for a battery maintainer- in fact is oversized, and partly why I am using a 2A trickler on a 120V circuit using the inverter. No problems.
The phantom drain to the chassis battery is minor but not to be ignored in the Tellaro.

 

[dkoldman]

If you go with the 40A charger, make sure you're wired for that size.

I put one in my Rialta and blew a fuse b/c I had 10AWG wire, so I upgraded to 6AWG and fixed the problem. I also had 50A fuses. I was also charging the coach batteries, not the chassis battery in that rig, so I needed more amps, as I upgraded from 200A to 414A battery system.

So as I have always said- mind your amp draw and wire accordingly.
20A is more than enough for a battery maintainer- in fact is oversized, and partly why I am using a 2A trickler on a 120V circuit using the inverter. No problems.
The phantom drain to the chassis battery is minor but not to be ignored in the Tellaro.

I have the Renogy 40amp but I did not open the package opting to resale instead. I plan to get a 50amp DC to DC. Although not wired yet I have already purchased 25ft of Red and 25 of Black 4AWG wiring. I am not sure where it will go, as I am pondering 3 different locations. I have time because I don't have the Victron Energy Orion XS 50 amp yet. I also ordered two 60amp resettable fuses in anticipation of the same. No telling where this project will end. Right now I am just playing with my new Converter charger profiles. It is nice that I can now boost the charge, put in absorption, float mode or constant 13.6 charge whenever I want to with a remote.

I maximized the wiring to ensure maximum voltage to charge 200ah as quickly as possible given, I will have no solar. I believe in most real work situations my batteries will always be fully charged on 1 to 2 hours of drive time. Even without the Lithium batteries, my AGMs will charge faster because according to the AGM profile on my new converter, Boost is 14.0vdc Absorption is 14.7vdc.

 

[MCP-THOR]

My Winegard is basically a useless decoration on the roof. I upgraded the phone app and gave it one last chance. Even after resetting to factory default it won't connect anymore. So much for the "upgraded" app :nonono:. I'd leave power disconnected but I need it occasionally for the OTA TV antenna in the Winegard dome.

Odd that the OP's chassis battery drained from the Winegard?? WHY would that be connected to the chassis battery instead of house battery(s) ???

FWIW on my class b Tellaro the power for the OTA TV antenna comes from the winegard injector. The power for the WiFi and cellular comes from a house wiring harness. They are separate circuits and neither are chassis connected and therefore won’t drain chassis battery. The power to the WiFi and cellular setup can be switched, leaving the OTA as is.

 

[Ken47]

Great input, thanks. My novice explanation for why the Winegard was connected to the chassis battery is that someone wasn't thinking during construction. Per Winegard support, their unit “should be wired to its own dedicated 12 volt power source but they have “seen more than one device wired to a 12 volt power source”. A source at Thor has said "I know we do not have the Winegard set up the way it is suggested by the manufacturer."

 

[Campguy21]

A very simple solution to the "chassis battery being depleted" problem is to install a battery tender connection to the chassis battery located under your feet in the Ram Promaster. A simple two wire connection to the positive and negative of your van battery that allows quick connection to the battery tender. You can then plug in the battery tender once a week or so. You can also use the house batteries with the inverter on to power the battery tender if you like? This would avoid having to run an extension cord from your house or wherever you park the van. Even with only 190 watts of solar I find my house batteries stay charged easily as long as I keep the inverter off when not in use. In fact, I periodically turn on the inverter to keep the house batteries from staying 100% charged which is not always a good thing with lithium batteries. Just a very simple method of moving battery power from your house batteries to your starting battery and a battery tender pulls very low amps.

 

[MCP-THOR]

A very simple solution to the "chassis battery being depleted" problem is to install a battery tender connection to the chassis battery located under your feet in the Ram Promaster. A simple two wire connection to the positive and negative of your van battery that allows quick connection to the battery tender. You can then plug in the battery tender once a week or so. You can also use the house batteries with the inverter on to power the battery tender if you like? This would avoid having to run an extension cord from your house or wherever you park the van. Even with only 190 watts of solar I find my house batteries stay charged easily as long as I keep the inverter off when not in use. In fact, I periodically turn on the inverter to keep the house batteries from staying 100% charged which is not always a good thing with lithium batteries. Just a very simple method of moving battery power from your house batteries to your starting battery and a battery tender pulls very low amps.

Like this? With option for small solar panel.

 

[Campguy21]

Like this? With option for small solar panel.

Yep. That looks good too!

 

[marksil]

Like this? With option for small solar panel.

Would this also work connected to the jumpstart posts located in the engine compartment? I would also like to add that I am in awe of OP travelling in a Ram 1500 camper with a Great Dane! I have a 3500 Tellaro, and there is barely enough room for my 40 lb Border Collie!

 

[MCP-THOR]

Would this also work connected to the jumpstart posts located in the engine compartment? I would also like to add that I am in awe of OP travelling in a Ram 1500 camper with a Great Dane! I have a 3500 Tellaro, and there is barely enough room for my 40 lb Border Collie!

Yes, will work the same if connected under hood. I did it inside to easily connect solar panel and toss it onto the dash. Also can connect the battery minder without running an extra extension cord to the engine compartment.

And two Shih Tzus are also a challenge!

 

[Ken47]

My assumption is that we love dogs largely because of the challenges having purchased a ramp, then a set of stairs, our Dane, who leaps easily into the back of a minivan, is still reluctant to enter her new home-away-from-home.