Poor Workmanship & Quality Control

Cougar1985

New Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Abilene
Because of space limits, I won't go into all the problems that I have experienced with my Axis 25.2 but presently while camping there was a water leak outside the bathroom. It wasn't there when we woke up. When I removed the access cover under the Shower I could see water dripping from the 90 on the shower cold water line. I could not reach the crimp-on band from this location so I cut a hole in the wall to expose the fittings. Crimping did not solve the problem. We went home earlier from our camping trip and took the motorhome to a local repair facility. They took the paneling off to find that two of the paneling staples punctured the hot water line in two places but did not start leaking until the staple rusted. Why would one place a staple in a wall where there is water lines running? I could see placing them where the wall support studs were but. Thor Customer Service rep could not answer that question. Nor would he even discuss some level of responsibility for the problem. "We don't know who could have put those staples there." I told him I had pictures and could send him the hot water PEX for his review. NOPE! You are SOL! Another example of Thor's quality.
 
It's a well known fact about the quality of most motorhomes today. Fact number two is the "like pulling teeth" hassle of getting repairs done - even on new motorhomes still under factory warranty.

With that knowledge, you have to decide whether you want to do battle with the unwilling manufacturer and dealer or just fix it yourself. Yep it SUCKS. Unfortunately it's the price one must pay in today's economy for owning a motorhome.
I was VERY fortunate to purchase a pre-covid unit which had few defects... sloppy build, but everything works okay.

Here's my suggestion for your immediate problem. Buy a crimp kit off Amazon and go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy a few lengths of 1/2" pex tube. Dig in and replace the plumbing yourself. Then, when "typical" homeowner repair stuff rears it's ugly head, rinse and repeat.

The alternative is to leave your motorhome sitting on a dealer lot for months on end while you argue and fight with Thor and the dealer over who's going to pay for a $50 plumbing job... which you could do yourself over a weekend.

I adopted this mentality the first year with our motorhome. Owning a motorhome is a LOT of work! But when you accept the above, you can travel with a lot more confidence that the repair is done correctly, AND your blood pressure will stay within healthy limits! :)
 
Based on your previous posts, leaks happen on a 5 year old rig and the manufacturer is not responsible for what you might have done or how you used that rig in that time.

Thor’s entry level quality issues hav ed been well documented for over 7?or & years that I am aware of

Your problem is nothing new.
 
Because of space limits, I won't go into all the problems that I have experienced with my Axis 25.2 but presently while camping there was a water leak outside the bathroom. It wasn't there when we woke up. When I removed the access cover under the Shower I could see water dripping from the 90 on the shower cold water line. I could not reach the crimp-on band from this location so I cut a hole in the wall to expose the fittings. Crimping did not solve the problem. We went home earlier from our camping trip and took the motorhome to a local repair facility. They took the paneling off to find that two of the paneling staples punctured the hot water line in two places but did not start leaking until the staple rusted. Why would one place a staple in a wall where there is water lines running? I could see placing them where the wall support studs were but. Thor Customer Service rep could not answer that question. Nor would he even discuss some level of responsibility for the problem. "We don't know who could have put those staples there." I told him I had pictures and could send him the hot water PEX for his review. NOPE! You are SOL! Another example of Thor's quality.
Another example of why I DIY everything and never use warranties on the coach part. My work is way better than Thor's, all modesty aside...
Staple huh? Sounds like the drywall nail in the copper pipe behind the wall routine in homes I have worked on.

I'd be opening up all compartments to get to know mostly, and also to look for more issues, if you haven't already.


I love the "We don't know who" part. Good luck moving forward- you will make it better!!
 
Its really not too surprising, that these things are built fairly poorly. I mean, it blows me away, that they can even sell these things so cheaply comparitively (assuming a lower price, entry level type motorhome/camper-I certainly would expect more, from an Airstream, or $500,000 rig)

For perspective, I just bought what I would consider an entry level, fairly basic Class C. It actually cost less, than a new, well equipped new 1 ton 4X4 pickup truck. That truck, doesn't even have a kitchen, hot water heater, bed, shower, TV, etc etc etc! The only way, they can make a well equipped motorhome for less than the price of a new well equipped Chevy 3500 or Ford F350 is to cut corners. There can't be any alternative that I can see! With that perspective, I guess we just expect some issues on occasion.
 
De-contenting is the new norm. Instead of lowering MSRP or giving much higher discounts, most manufacturers are leaving MSRP at inflated levels and stripping the unit. Plastic toilet, cheap shower curtain, no TVs... cutting corners anywhere possible... even cheaper than before.

IMO, a smart entry level buyer would be much better off buying a well kept pre-covid motorhome. Although some used units are also inflated, the quality and content are much better. If more people went that route either quality would have to improve or prices would drop like a rock. Sad to see de-contenting... it's really an insult thinking buyers wouldn't notice.
 
Why don't you just sell it?

You can make life easy or you can phone-fight as a hobby

Make life easy.

You're only venting.
Venting should be aimed at friends and family,

Did you have a question or an answer that you want to share?
 
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Because of space limits, I won't go into all the problems that I have experienced with my Axis 25.2 but presently while camping there was a water leak outside the bathroom. It wasn't there when we woke up. When I removed the access cover under the Shower I could see water dripping from the 90 on the shower cold water line. I could not reach the crimp-on band from this location so I cut a hole in the wall to expose the fittings. Crimping did not solve the problem. We went home earlier from our camping trip and took the motorhome to a local repair facility. They took the paneling off to find that two of the paneling staples punctured the hot water line in two places but did not start leaking until the staple rusted. Why would one place a staple in a wall where there is water lines running? I could see placing them where the wall support studs were but. Thor Customer Service rep could not answer that question. Nor would he even discuss some level of responsibility for the problem. "We don't know who could have put those staples there." I told him I had pictures and could send him the hot water PEX for his review. NOPE! You are SOL! Another example of Thor's quality.

How old is the RV?
I am confused did the repair facility fixed the leak?
Why do you say we don't know who put the staples there? Who is We?
Did you ever send TMC the pictures?
Something is odd about "those staples" because that means it would have had to be workmanship error in several places. How many leaks?

Staples is in part why I did not buy one of the TMC Windsports. There were about 5 Staples exposed on one of the outside panel wall near kitchen area. The Dealer tried to fix it for us, their repair guy must have had a sander because he was able to grind down the exposed staples, but now we had 5 large light brown patch spots of on the wall :facepalm:

IMO, I don't think those staples ( in my RV) were exposed like that from the factory. Something happened in that lot. I think TMC is smart enough to know when they have a true workmanship issue.

So point here is get the leaks fixed, if it is warranty I can't see why TMC would not reimburse you. We had a Microwave ( in the house) go out last week. Geeze it was only 16 years old, but Frigidaire would not stand behind their quality. They wanted $94 for a Thermal Fuse and they did not want to replace electronic control pad that I had broken all the tabs getting it out to get to thermal fuse. Who make control pads that hard to get out without breaking the tabs? :whistling: So I went to Lowes and bought a new Microwave.
 
How old is the RV?
So I went to Lowes and bought a new Microwave.

Which is what you should have done from the 'get go'. Who tries to fix a 16 year old appliance? (Unless it's only a several dollar quick fix)
 
Which is what you should have done from the 'get go'. Who tries to fix a 16 year old appliance? (Unless it's only a several dollar quick fix)


Yes that was the point I was making. So point here is get the leaks fixed, if it is warranty I can't see why TMC would not reimburse you.

Point 2 Use a 30% replacement cost against the depreciated value to decide whether to repair or to replace an asset.

Another example.... 10 years ago, we had our now 34 year old refrigerator that had been demoted to outside garage use about 20 years ago. It went out and just stopped cooling. That damn GE, make you wonder about their quality. :whistling: So I got the dolly and was taking it to the curve, but once in daylight I could not help but notice the dirt grime and lint on the bottom. I am a Koldman; no way I was going to put it outside like that for all the Neighbors to see without a good wash. I took the pressure washer out and 10 minutes later the bottom looked liked new. Being cleaned, I had to try one more time, so with power on, I noticed that little fan next to compressor was not turning. I tried to get it to go. It had the proper voltage. I find the part on ebay for $9.95, I ordered it, installed it, and that fridge is back in garage now 34 years old and working like a champ. So I fixed a 24 year fridge for $10, well under the 30% Replacement value cost.

The takeaway I was getting to earlier for the OP is that the same issue could have happened at year 5 with the fridge out of warranty, but after paying GE $3,000 some may have took to social platforms to crow poor quality, how the GE Appliance did not last etc etc. when other factors truly were to blame.

I don't know how the @RealTMC does it? If I was a VP at TMC, I may have to have a Corporate lawyer review all my correspondence, but I would consider making all new TMC owners take a TMC Training class and passing BEFORE buying the RV. For those that buy Used, it is always "Caveat Emptor" IMO, but many on this very site insist they will only buy used RV. I can't recall buying a Used anything out of warranty and yet somehow finding fault with the Mfg? Maybe I can find fault with TMC when my SOB Kwikie Steps went out? Kwikie said it was not their issue, I would not be surprised if TMC was the largest customer for Kwikie, so is TMC paying Kwikie to put out bad quality :LOL::LOL:

Note: My issue with my Kwikie Steps was later found despite the Dealer's lies that it was due to faulty Kwikie parts. It was not. Kwikie is a Top Notch Vendor and their Support proved it to me. The issue was due to pin #9 coming loose in a connector behind the main breaker panel off the 12v buss. I could have argued and bashed WBGO wanting to blame them for poor workmanship when in reality it really was a loose connector. It would be the last time I use a Dealer for any kind of RV repair. I had to pay dealer $150 because they could NOT find the wiring problem. When I later had fixed it myself and sent them pictures of the connectors, they still did not give me my $150 back. :facepalm:
 
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How old is the RV?
I am confused did the repair facility fixed the leak?
Why do you say we don't know who put the staples there? Who is We?
Did you ever send TMC the pictures?
Something is odd about "those staples" because that means it would have had to be workmanship error in several places. How many leaks?

Staples is in part why I did not buy one of the TMC Windsports. There were about 5 Staples exposed on one of the outside panel wall near kitchen area. The Dealer tried to fix it for us, their repair guy must have had a sander because he was able to grind down the exposed staples, but now we had 5 large light brown patch spots of on the wall :facepalm:

IMO, I don't think those staples ( in my RV) were exposed like that from the factory. Something happened in that lot. I think TMC is smart enough to know when they have a true workmanship issue.

So point here is get the leaks fixed, if it is warranty I can't see why TMC would not reimburse you. We had a Microwave ( in the house) go out last week. Geeze it was only 16 years old, but Frigidaire would not stand behind their quality. They wanted $94 for a Thermal Fuse and they did not want to replace electronic control pad that I had broken all the tabs getting it out to get to thermal fuse. Who make control pads that hard to get out without breaking the tabs? :whistling: So I went to Lowes and bought a new Microwave.


I actually found a picture of the TMC RV I did not buy. This was brand new coach and AFTER the repair of the protruding staples by TMC Dealer ( see the bright spots on the wall). There were other things on my PDI list for this coach, but the totality was I walked away. I would say 90% of the issues were Dealer caused. I add a picture of broken pantry door as a bonus exhibit. I doubt very seriously these issues shipped like this from any TMC factory. Nonetheless TMC has problems, imagine how many people like me that would have been TMC owners. They have serious Dealer network issue IMO.
 

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De-contenting is the new norm. Instead of lowering MSRP or giving much higher discounts, most manufacturers are leaving MSRP at inflated levels and stripping the unit. Plastic toilet, cheap shower curtain, no TVs... cutting corners anywhere possible... even cheaper than before.

IMO, a smart entry level buyer would be much better off buying a well kept pre-covid motorhome. Although some used units are also inflated, the quality and content are much better. If more people went that route either quality would have to improve or prices would drop like a rock. Sad to see de-contenting... it's really an insult thinking buyers wouldn't notice.

A little off topic, but have you noticed that items in stores are keeping the same price but the package contents are less. I think the small bags of chips at Subway have air pumped into them to make them appear full.
 
A little off topic, but have you noticed that items in stores are keeping the same price but the package contents are less. I think the small bags of chips at Subway have air pumped into them to make them appear full.

Come on Bob, that tactic has been around for at least half a century. Plays out in many different ways, less net weight in the cereal boxes, smaller candy bar, less features in the new RV or car. It's more prevalent in times of higher inflation and "innovative" economics such as we are experiencing now. But you knew that. :LOL:
 
A little off topic, but have you noticed that items in stores are keeping the same price but the package contents are less. I think the small bags of chips at Subway have air pumped into them to make them appear full.

Tactic that’s been used for decades and started when they reduced the weight of a can of coffee from 16 ounces.
 
Its really not too surprising, that these things are built fairly poorly. I mean, it blows me away, that they can even sell these things so cheaply comparitively (assuming a lower price, entry level type motorhome/camper-I certainly would expect more, from an Airstream, or $500,000 rig)

For perspective, I just bought what I would consider an entry level, fairly basic Class C. It actually cost less, than a new, well equipped new 1 ton 4X4 pickup truck. That truck, doesn't even have a kitchen, hot water heater, bed, shower, TV, etc etc etc! The only way, they can make a well equipped motorhome for less than the price of a new well equipped Chevy 3500 or Ford F350 is to cut corners. There can't be any alternative that I can see! With that perspective, I guess we just expect some issues on occasion.
To me, that’s a stupid excuse for not respecting customers and the money they spend.
 

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