Question: Is RV Anti-Freeze Required by your RV Mfg's Owners Manual?

[lwmcguire]

For the purposes of this thread, can you tell us how TMC's manual says to winterize with the Aqua Hot? Or was that an add on? If so, how does the Aqua Hot manual say to winterize itself?

Just saw this and the manuals for both say antifreeze until you have cleared the water based on color, nothing mentioned of any alternative method

 

[lwmcguire]

After reading all of this I think I'll bring my lithium batteries into the house and soak them in a tub of RV antifreeze...

Just to be on the safe side.

What shade of pink are you looking for?

 

[lwmcguire]

Apparently not many larger coach owners on this forum as perhaps i have one of the few Aqua Hot hot water systems. I know the larger coaches have them in mass so they are out there. Most larger coaches have no other option for heat or hot water other than one of the several brands of diesel fired heating system. In Germany and other countries, they use much smaller versions with the same results of heat and hot water.

The reason air is suspect for the Aqua Hot is the design with a large copper coil laying horizontal in a flooded box that contains glycol. It would take some serious air to safely remove all the water. It would take a very small amount ot freeze the copper coil and create a leak. It happens every winter or cold spell in coaches stored or that loose heat.

Bottom line is if you have a large coil of copper that normally is flooded with water don't rely on air to remove the last drops of moisture.

 

[dkoldman]

Antifreeze winterization is the only option noted as I suspect is the same for all Coaches with Aqua Hot Coils

Ok this is the first confirmed reference by Owners Manual that I have seen thus far.

Coaches with Aqua Hot Coils - Manual say to use Anti-Freeze and blowout is not mentioned as option.

Thus far for all other coaches it sounds like both options are acceptable by the RV Mfg. Kind of what I was getting at is if both methods are authorized by the manual for any specific coach, the RV Owner can decide which method they prefer, but you would think the reason for selection one over the other would not be out of fear that their non preferred method would freeze or have freeze damage.

i.e. You can prefer to use antifreeze in most coaches, but the reason should not be that air blowout may freeze. Unless said RV Owner views themselves as smarter and the RV Mfg / Engineering is wrong.

 

[m1noel]

Ok, right up front I know this isn't what you asked for, but...

1 My owners manual is so generic (I think they used it for all models and classes in 2018, and maybe other years) that I can find no specific information about my particular coach. So I don't even look at it.

2. I successfully used air only in my last two coaches for 20 Idaho winters. Even with the ice makers, no problems.

3. I use the pink stuff in this one because it has a clothes washer and it requires the pink stuff to be placed in the washer and run on spin for a bit to pump out the water from the drain system. It is just as easy for me to blow out the lines, add 3 gallons of the pink and run it through all the systems.

 

[dkoldman]

Ok, right up front I know this isn't what you asked for, but...

1 My owners manual is so generic (I think they used it for all models and classes in 2018, and maybe other years) that I can find no specific information about my particular coach. So I don't even look at it.

2. I successfully used air only in my last two coaches for 20 Idaho winters. Even with the ice makers, no problems.

3. I use the pink stuff in this one because it has a clothes washer and it requires the pink stuff to be placed in the washer and run on spin for a bit to pump out the water from the drain system. It is just as easy for me to blow out the lines, add 3 gallons of the pink and run it through all the systems.

You provided what I am looking for. Your washer manual calls for pink stuff. With Aqua Hot above; that now make two scenarios where a manual specifically state to use anti freeze. I don't have a washer or Aqua hot, but if I did I would follow the manual and use anti freeze.

I should point out that my current RV Owners manual does REQUIRE me to add antifreeze in the to the P traps. It says...

After Disconnecting Air Pressure

Pour about 1 cup of RV Anti Freeze down each drain for the galley sink, lavatory sink, and shower tub, This fills the drain trap pipes to prevent holding tank odors from entering the motorhome during storage.

Note: It is not necessary to add Anti Freeze to the toilet since the flush valve will be closed.​

With all that said, your 20 years real world experience in Idaho says all I need to know without reading another page in a manual.

I am convinced that both methods when properly applied works as far as freezing is concern. If there was an RV designed in such a way that the Air blowout would leave the RV owner at risk of freeze damage, that RV Mfg would specify RV AntiFreeze only.

To be clear I am not advocating against anyone for using Anti Freeze when they don't have Aqua Hot or Washer. I just disagree or maybe take exception when some state their reason for doing so is protect their RV from freezing better. I don't believe the latter is true. If anyone was concerned about liability from freeze damage it would be RV Mfgs.

IMO the reason we see Anti Freeze used so much at dealers may be because the Dealers realize they can't trust the incompetent service tech to 100% air blow out every coach; so they force them to use the Anti freeze because it is easier to verify once done. Just look for the pink crap in sink or shower floor.

 

[yukongrant]

IMO the reason we see Anti Freeze used so much at dealers may be because the Dealers realize they can't trust the incompetent service tech to 100% air blow out every coach; so they force them to use the Anti freeze because it is easier to verify once done. Just look for the pink crap in sink or shower floor.

Or they are trying to make a buck or two selling a jug of the pink stuff.

 

[dkoldman]

Or they are trying to make a buck or two selling a jug of the pink stuff.

That's it. Not only can they charge more for the anti freeze but the extra labor required. It then has the effect of a sugar pill for the paying rv owner who sees pink stuff in sinks and shower floor and smile with glee.

 

[marine6805]

Manuals provide a practical way
Not necessarily the optimum undefeatable way.

The ability of the reader must be considered.
In some cases if you offer even one choice, the reader will fail entirely.
Some need told
Some need directed
Some need a mandate.
Some need threatened(the freeze them and we won't cover them clause)
Some can't follow direction.
Some will scream like a smashed cat at the very mention of them needing to be involved.

I just had this conversation and had to help someone winterize because they are not only unknowledgable of rvs but are pretty much stone cold stupid in general.
We blew out the lines and then add a whopping $6.50 worth of antifreeze.
Blowing it out then adding $6.50 for two gallons
Negated
ONE IS NONE.

No need to not do both.
No need to leave yourself open to failure.

Mine lives in a climate controlled house.
If it needed winterized
I'd do both,
BECAUSE I CAN.

The chances of someone who has never owned an rv writing your manual, based on first hit Google searches due to EXTREME lack of knowledge, as an outside contractor?
Almost 100%.

The old Bob Newhart series.
He did what for a living?

Now you're interjecting common sense into this: "The chances of someone who has never owned an rv writing your manual, based on first hit Google searches due to EXTREME lack of knowledge, as an outside contractor?
Almost 100%."

 

[Bobo-THOR]

Frozen AF (antifreeze)

Not sure if anyone else has had an issue with different brands of antifreeze, but I had 2 jugs of Splash in my outside compartments in preparation to winterize at the end of a trip. They were both frozen. I now use Prestone.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Not sure if anyone else has had an issue with different brands of antifreeze, but I had 2 jugs of Splash in my outside compartments in preparation to winterize at the end of a trip. They were both frozen. I now use Prestone.

Yikes! Hope it isn't the green stuff...

RV antifreeze actually turns to slush by design, but doesn't freeze solid.

 

[dkoldman]

Yikes! Hope it isn't the green stuff...

RV antifreeze actually turns to slush by design, but doesn't freeze solid.

Oh contraire....

Splash is not the green stuff and very common at Lowes or Home Depot. Here is Mfg site. https://www.splashwash.com/products/antifreeze/rv-marine-50f

Bobo has just highlighted a case where any method including can result in damage based on operators abilities, knowledge or limitations of product.

What most tend to overlook is the difference between freeze and burst. The Anti Freeze when applied properly will in fact freeze (Not burst) between 16F - 20F. I don't want freezing nor the Green stuff which I view as worse.

Just drain the water, blow out and eliminate any risk of freeze or burst. If you don't know how to blow out learn or hire someone to blowout for you. If your coach has a design flow where water will not drain or allow to be blown out, fix it (like a parasitic draw); but as many will not fix the parasitic draws many will not fix where water may stand, too which you have no option but to use the Antifreeze, the pink stuff.

If any are doubting the pink stuff will freeze, the below is from the Mfg.

SPLASH® RV & Marine Antifreeze is designed to provide burst protection to temperatures of -50°F, -75°F or -100°F. The -50°F and -75°F solution will freeze between +20°F and +16°F. The -100°F solution will freeze at approximately -20°F. Frozen or slushy antifreeze still provides burst protection.​

 

[dkoldman]

Not sure if anyone else has had an issue with different brands of antifreeze, but I had 2 jugs of Splash in my outside compartments in preparation to winterize at the end of a trip. They were both frozen. I now use Prestone.

Assuming you do not have a Washing machine or Aqua Hot heating system, can I ask why you feel you must apply antifreeze?

Why not properly drain and then blowout? If you do not have a regulated air compressor that is one good reason why wnat may use the antifreeze. But you never use the Prestone in any circumstance. The splash would have worked, but I submit you did not need it assuming you have the skillset to properly drain and blowout the system.

With that said if I were going to use AntiFreeze, I would use Splash. It cost more than what I use today for P traps , but what I do like about the Splash is that it can be mixed with water 50/50. https://www.lowes.com/pd/SPLASH-1-G...3OCaaz2d_cFWuuMuQWcaAl-mEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Not that I would ever mix it, but I could just drain and add it without blowing out thre water lines.

 

[16ACE27]

Oh contraire....

Splash is not the green stuff and very common at Lowes or Home Depot. Here is Mfg site. https://www.splashwash.com/products/antifreeze/rv-marine-50f

He was referencing the

I now use Prestone.

comment by Bobo

 

[dkoldman]

He was referencing the comment by Bobo

I am gonna have to hire me a Technical Writer

My "Oh Contraire" was in reference to that Chateau Nomad last comment of "does not freeze solid"

I provided a link from Splash that the OP referenced that his Splash had in fact froze, 2 jugs to be specific. The Anti-Freeze Mfg says it will freeze 16-20F

I concurred that the Green stuff or Prestone should not be used. But truth be told some of the antifreezes today for Autos look Green, Yellow and/or Pink. We should probably just stick with RV Antifreeze?

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Considering that automotive antifreeze is poisonous to humans... I'm sure that's stated on the label.

I buy the cheapest pink stuff I can find... last batch was from Tractor Supply... Traveller brand. On sale 3 gallons for $10.

I just pour it in the traps. No lost sleep... it does it's job.

 

[dkoldman]

Considering that automotive antifreeze is poisonous to humans... I'm sure that's stated on the label.

I buy the cheapest pink stuff I can find... last batch was from Tractor Supply... Traveller brand. On sale 3 gallons for $10.

I just pour it in the traps. No lost sleep... it does it's job.

You post underscores that the greatest risk associated with misapplication of the untrained using AntiFreeze is vastly greater than that of same untrained misapplying the air blowout. Especially when it comes to dewinterizing the same in the Spring, some may add water and go :nonono:

Based on this thread, I will never trust anyone to winterize my RV. I am sure my coach had Pink Stuff in it when it shipped out of Iowa to Florida, but when we came to pick up they had it all cleaned out. We don't normally drink the water, but we do use for brushing teeth, cleaning glasses or similar.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

You post underscores that the greatest risk associated with misapplication of the untrained using AntiFreeze is vastly greater than that of same untrained misapplying the air blowout. Especially when it comes to dewinterizing the same in the Spring, some may add water and go :nonono:

Based on this thread, I will never trust anyone to winterize my RV. I am sure my coach had Pink Stuff in it when it shipped out of Iowa to Florida, but when we came to pick up they had it all cleaned out. We don't normally drink the water, but we do use for brushing teeth, cleaning glasses or similar.

Yep... we filter drinking water, and also use that for brushing teeth. Dish washing (basically sanitizing) is with the hottest water from the water heater. Shower water is the only "mostly untreated" water we use straight from the FW tank.

 

[Bobo-THOR]

Sorry folks, I should have specified that the Prestone that I use is RV antifreeze for potable systems. I did learn something from the additional posts though. I wasn't aware of the crystal vs. frozen solid aspect. The possibility of EG poisoning is not a laughing matter. It's rapidly deadly and painful. Sorry for the misdirection.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Sorry folks, I should have specified that the Prestone that I use is RV antifreeze for potable systems. I did learn something from the additional posts though. I wasn't aware of the crystal vs. frozen solid aspect. The possibility of EG poisoning is not a laughing matter. It's rapidly deadly and painful. Sorry for the misdirection.

No problem! We're ALL here to learn new things about RV life!