Question: Is RV Anti-Freeze Required by your RV Mfg's Owners Manual?

[dkoldman]

Follow - Up

:rofl2:

I am just getting started. I am getting close to adding having a frozen RV pipe to my bucket list. In Feb 2021 in Dallas we went 8 days, 23 hours, and 23 minutes below freezing. -2F was the coldest 6F was the normal night time low. We had $32,000 water damage to the house and pool. The RV & Boat had zero issues. No question had I not drained the lines, I would have had serious damage in the RV.

This winter I hope to learn what difference I get when I blowout, or don't blowout. I am gonna look really hard to see if I see any water lines that may be inverted where water may stand if I don't blow out. I am sure there is some, but my goal is to measure to see how much. I would take side bets, but thats not allowed on the forum. But I am gonna set the over / under at 24 ounces.

So today, I finally had a reason to winterize my RV. Dallas is expecting a hard freeze 26F degrees next Monday & Tuesday nights. Per above post, I have been wanting to see how much water I could blowout with air compressor.

So I did my normal draining of fresh water tank, and set compressor to 40psi for air blowout. This time I captured all of the water blown out into all 3 sinks, and shower. I captured 64 oz.

So if you had the over on the 24 ounces you won the bet, but you can't get anything because gambling is not allowing on this forum :hide:

The 64 ounces was a lot more water than I thought, so the air blowout really is necessary (I know most of you already knew that, but I wanted real analytics) I will ALWAYS use compressor to blowout after draining on this coach. If I did not have a compressor I would have to use the RV Anti Freeze.

Note: The comment below is NOT for those that use RV Antifreeze I wish to avoid the tired debate on whether to put RV Antifreeze in fresh water supply line.​

This time when I winterized, I did not bother to pour the 1 cup of RV anti freeze in the P traps. I have dine in the past because the my manual says to pour 1 cup RV antifreeze in the P traps to block odors from holding tanks. It is 66 degrees today. I will wait to see if I actually have any odors. I have the Siphon 360s on both holding tanks. I should not have odors, but I will confirm over next few weeks. If I get odors, I will go back to pouring a cup in the P traps. If no actual odors are inside the coach, I will cease using RV Anti Freeze in any fashion as it will serve no useful value to me as I have compressor.

 

[ducksface]

It does have value.

Just like changing a flat tire using only a shovel and a hairnet does
If
You only have a hairnet and a shovel.
The shovel might be better than nothing.

If you can't blow it out
Add antifreeze.
Do SOMETHING
If something is required.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Once you've reached a certain lofty status in society, you can proudly proclaim...

"My p-traps don't stink".

 

[dkoldman]

It does have value.

Just like changing a flat tire using only a shovel and a hairnet does
If
You only have a hairnet and a shovel.
The shovel might be better than nothing.

If you can't blow it out
Add antifreeze.
Do SOMETHING
If something is required.

I agree If you did not have a compressor or no method to blow out. In fact my manual actually says that. It says Air Blowout is method #1 and is recommended, but they say if you do not have a Compressor proceed with Method 2 which start by saying complete Method 1 short the air blowout.

That is why I said "If I did not have a compressor I would have to use the RV Anti Freeze."

With that being said, both methods are equally effective is done properly. The for or against one over the other was never my intent of the thread. I just wanted to know if anyone had an RV manual say that the Anti Freeze was required which in turn would have implied that air blowout was not allowed or recommended. Short of things like washing machines and Aqua hot manual, no one has RV manual that says they must use anti freeze.

I went down this road because some educate others as if somehow using AntiFreeze is more safer? It would seem to me if that was true the RV Mfg would always recommend Anti Freeze. Those that venture to use air blowout are on their own.

 

[dkoldman]

Once you've reached a certain lofty status in society, you can proudly proclaim...

"My p-traps don't stink".

I will soon find out soon. I have been adding the cup of AF in p traps just because I had a gallon of RV antifreeze from when RV was new and I was struggling to find something from CW to buy with coupons I had. I still have some. I will use some of it to mix with the water in my porta pottie that I keep in the shower when RV is winterized. At least until it is all gone.

 

[ducksface]

The instructions on the camco
Antifreeze hand pump kit
Says to blow out the lines with a compressor prior to using Antifreeze.
I found the pump when throwing stuff away today.

So...even Antifreeze sellers say to blow out the lines
But
This may be simply a way to sell you the camco line-blower-outer.

 

[dkoldman]

The instructions on the camco
Antifreeze hand pump kit
Says to blow out the lines with a compressor prior to using Antifreeze.
I found the pump when throwing stuff away today.

So...even Antifreeze sellers say to blow out the lines
But
This may be simply a way to sell you the camco line-blower-outer.

Wow that is definitive and it covers all of their liability because if you drain and blow out all of the damn water.... how the hell you gonna have freeze damage

I am on to my next what if experiment. I now wonder is it even possible for a P trap with water to freeze and burst? My manual says the only reason to add AF in the P Trap is to block odors? I can't get odors with empty P trap and empty holding tanks, but it appears that blowing out a p trap is a lot harder effort than simply pouring 1 cup of AF in the drain. But what if I just left the water in the p trap? I may have to go to Lowes and buy a cheap P trap fill it water to simulate a drain and put in the freezer to try to burst it?

If it is not under pressure, I am not sure it will burst rather it may simply just expand?

 

[ducksface]

You add something that won't evaporate.
The standard is vegetable oil in toilets and p traps, but mineral oil won't go rancid.
A quart of vegetable oil in a toilet bowl will seal it for years.

A clean trap would be hard to burst from ice.
The volume capacity of the openings on both ends is almost always greater than the volume of water a trap will hold. Square inches vs cubic inches vs 9% ice expansion.
There is an old YouTube video were a plumber seals water in a foot long closed section of every known pipe and freezes it to test bursting.
Copper lost
Then 10 other types until
Pex won.

But
A $4 p trap set up in your home freezer will tell the tale.

(We get no smells in our rv from dry p traps
But
It's parked inside so no air exchange through the roof vent.)