Replace an older 3 stage charger with a lithium battery charger

DavidEM

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Bear with me guys as this post is going to be involved and technical.

Several years ago I noticed that the WFCO 9855 that came with my 2021 Axis was only charging at 5-10 amps into my 200 Ahs of AGM batteries when discharged to 70% SOC. I Replaced it with a PD9260 and the charging current shot up to 30-40 amps under similar conditions.

So I concluded that the WFCO charger was really a fixed voltage, one stage charger and the PD was a decent three stage charger. That of course soured me on WFCO chargers.

Fast forward to today when I am considering replacing my AGMs with 300 Ahs of Li batteries. Do I need a new charger? I rarely charge with the converter as I don’t have shorepower where I store my RV and I don’t want to run the generator for just charging. Solar panels keep the batteries up just fine.

But when I do want to charge after I switch to Li, how will the PD work? It has the Charge Wizard feature which from what I have read holds the output at a high voltage for an hour to top off your batteries. This feature was probably designed for LA batteries, but wouldn’t it work the same to top off Li batteries?

Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.

David
 
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The Progressive Dynamics converter you previously purchased is primarily designed for lead-acid batteries... although it could be used with LiFePO4, you will never get the full capacity of the lithium batteries.

The model numbers of Progressive Dynamics converters which are lithium compatible end with "L" designating lithium.

Here's a good read...
https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithium-converter-replacement-units/
 
David, my OEM PD Converter was 45amps (Progressive Dynamics PD9245C RV INTELI-Power 9200 Converter 45 AMP DC CHARGER)

It was for FLA acid only. It worked with Remote Pendant, but that was an option I did not have. The PD Converter worked great as I am on SP 90% of the time.

I bought the 300ah Li, because the prices of all this stuff was so cheap compared to 5 years ago, I wanted the newest technology given that my vMax tanks 125ah each were approaching end of life.

In discussing with Progressive Dynamics they recommended I replace my PD9245C with the Progressive Dynamics PD9345V Inteli-Power ® 9300 Series CONVERTERS RV

Besides being made for every type of battery profile that is User selectable, it also came with the remote pendant that I previously didn't have. I got the 45amp model. But what I really liked is that it was an exact replacement for my old PD9245C, I mean down to being able to use the exact same screws and holes in the floor where it was mounted by WBGO. :thumb:

The Lithium profile is set to the White color. It runs about 1 hour in bulk at 14.0vdc and then switches to 14.6 absorption before it senses reduced current output and then it goes to float at 13.6. By contrast my Orion XS Charger only has 2 stages.

It was a no brainer for me to buy the newer Progressive Dynamics Converter because I had zero issues with the OEM one and it was 5 years old. I bought brand new on ebay for around $250 when most places were selling for $350. Additionally, I would later sell my old unit on ebay for $110. So net net I paid $140 to get the newer Progressive Dynamics converter and the pendant. I love the pendant because I can immediately see if I am plugged in or not with green LED. I can also immediately see which of the 3 stages. I have the option of changing the stage with the remote, but thus far no need.
 
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The Progressive Dynamics converter you previously purchased is primarily designed for lead-acid batteries... although it could be used with LiFePO4, you will never get the full capacity of the lithium batteries.

The model numbers of Progressive Dynamics converters which are lithium compatible end with "L" designating lithium.

Here's a good read...
https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithium-converter-replacement-units/


May wish to verify that with Progressive Dynamics. My Lithium Compatible is PD9345V Inteli-Power ® 9300 Series CONVERTERS RV
 
Bear with me guys as this post is going to be involved and technical.

Several years ago I noticed that the WFCO 9855 that came with my 2021 Axis was only charging at 5-10 amps into my 200 Ahs of AGM batteries when discharged to 70% SOC. I Replaced it with a PD9260 and the charging current shot up to 30-40 amps under similar conditions.

So I concluded that the WFCO charger was really a fixed voltage, one stage charger and the PD was a decent three stage charger. That of course soured me on WFCO chargers.

Fast forward to today when I am considering replacing my AGMs with 300 Ahs of Li batteries. Do I need a new charger? I rarely charge with the converter as I don’t have shorepower where I store my RV and I don’t want to run the generator for just charging. Solar panels keep the batteries up just fine.

But when I do want to charge after I switch to Li, how will the PD work? It has the Charge Wizard feature which from what I have read holds the output at a high voltage for an hour to top off your batteries. This feature was probably designed for LA batteries, but wouldn’t it work the same to top off Li batteries?

Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.

David


I used the PD 9145ALV (45A) when I converted my 2001 Rialta from lead-acid to lithium, and it was a 'smart' charger with variable rates (2-stage) as it charged. Bulk to float charge. Looks like it's hard to get now- might have to find a substitute- see this page:
https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithium-converter-replacement-units/
 
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May wish to verify that with Progressive Dynamics. My Lithium Compatible is PD9345V Inteli-Power ® 9300 Series CONVERTERS RV

I believe yours is selectable for chemistry? So maybe the "V" indicates variable? Likely the "L" designation is specifically for lithium only. If you only have lithium, there's no need for selecting a chemistry setting... but it's available. But I can't imagine going back to FLA after using lithium batteries!
 
I believe yours is selectable for chemistry? So maybe the "V" indicates variable? Likely the "L" designation is specifically for lithium only. If you only have lithium, there's no need for selecting a chemistry setting... but it's available. But I can't imagine going back to FLA after using lithium batteries!

Could be. I don't know, just pointing out some Lithium models did not have the L.

Also, it is not so much about going back, it is to support future needs and / or the transition. i.e. I wasn't expecting to actually buy Lithium batteries until next Spring 2025. I mapped a strategy to gradually convert to Lithium to minimize my risk.

Step 1. Installed Switch to Disable / Enable Trombetta on demand. This allows me to eliminate the engine direct flow to the batteries and allows me t retain the ability to jumpstart engine with Emergency switch should it be needed

Step 2. Replace the Converter with a Lithium capable model. Since I was doing this BEFORE having actual Lithium batteries I needed the ability to configure for FLA. In fact I ran my new 9300 series PD Converter for a few months in FLA mode :coolsmiley:

Step 3. Installed the Victron Orion XS DC2DC chargers. I ran it as well off my vMax tanks FLA and new PD Converter.

Step 4. Buy / Install Lithium Batteries. I wasn't actually looking until the Duck posted those two 100ah with bluetooth. It got my attention as price was so low that I thought I may start looking. When I ran across the mini sized NewtiPower at 300AH it was a no brainer. When Lithium battery was installed, I had to disable by trombetta, change the profile on my PD Converter and change the profile in my Orion XS DC2DC charger. It took all of 5 minutes.

Step 5. Once all was confirmed working as desired, I added the Victron Smart Shunt.

Note: I still have both my vMax tanks in the garage. If my NewtiPower were to crap out today. I could take it out and put my vMax tanks by in. Enable my Trombetta, and change my profiles, and I am back in business. :popcorn:

I don't plan to go back, but what if in future someone has a FLA or other Non-Lithium Technology that has 1000ahs, smaller than a single group 31, for about $200. I would have that as an easy option.
 
Bear with me guys as this post is going to be involved and technical.

Several years ago I noticed that the WFCO 9855 that came with my 2021 Axis was only charging at 5-10 amps into my 200 Ahs of AGM batteries when discharged to 70% SOC. I Replaced it with a PD9260 and the charging current shot up to 30-40 amps under similar conditions.

So I concluded that the WFCO charger was really a fixed voltage, one stage charger and the PD was a decent three stage charger. That of course soured me on WFCO chargers.

Fast forward to today when I am considering replacing my AGMs with 300 Ahs of Li batteries. Do I need a new charger? I rarely charge with the converter as I don’t have shorepower where I store my RV and I don’t want to run the generator for just charging. Solar panels keep the batteries up just fine.

But when I do want to charge after I switch to Li, how will the PD work? It has the Charge Wizard feature which from what I have read holds the output at a high voltage for an hour to top off your batteries. This feature was probably designed for LA batteries, but wouldn’t it work the same to top off Li batteries?

Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.

David

Your PD Converter CAN charge your LiFePO4 batteries to 100%
But it won't keep them there when it shifts to float mode
But your solar charger should.
 
Wow, I thought that this was a fairly simple question with a straightforward answer. Not so it seems.

I suspect that the converter manufactures are just tweaking the voltage settings on their LA converters and calling them Li capable rather than redesign the electronics.

David
 
Wow, I thought that this was a fairly simple question with a straightforward answer. Not so it seems.

I suspect that the converter manufactures are just tweaking the voltage settings on their LA converters and calling them Li capable rather than redesign the electronics.

David

They really don't change the voltage, just the charging profile.

Bulk becomes charge at 14.5 VDC
Absorbtion becomes float at 13.6 VDC
Old float (13.1 - 13.3 VDC) is eliminated.
 
They really don't change the voltage, just the charging profile.

Bulk becomes charge at 14.5 VDC
Absorbtion becomes float at 13.6 VDC
Old float (13.1 - 13.3 VDC) is eliminated.

This points out earlier when I said my Lithium Profile was White, I was wrong it is Blue. My confusion is I had initially set on White for my AGMs, but I have since changed to Blue for the Lithium profile. My Lithium profile is 2 stage that aligns with my Orion XS 2 stage. When charging the battery, the PD 9345V converter has a nominal voltage output of 14.4 VDC. When the converter senses an output current drop below a preset level, the converter will automatically switch to IDLE mode and the voltage output will drop to 13.6VDC.

So I assume that is voltage output of either 14.4vdc or 13.6vdc?
 
I believe yours is selectable for chemistry? So maybe the "V" indicates variable? Likely the "L" designation is specifically for lithium only. If you only have lithium, there's no need for selecting a chemistry setting... but it's available. But I can't imagine going back to FLA after using lithium batteries!

I found out that the V indicates the Converter was packaged for Retail. My 9200 was OEM with no letter 9245. My new 9345V was purchased online from an authorized dealer.

Maybe the L is for the older Progressive Dynamics Converter before my time when they 1st invented Lithium batteries and Converters? You might need to check some of your meeting notes with Ben Franklin :LOL:
 

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