RV converter upgrade to lithium

[JustJason72]

I am wanting to upgrade my two marine lead a is batteries to lithium. I have a Xantrex XM1000.
Do I need to change the converter and the inverter?
If so, what should I upgrade to?

Thanks

 

[16ACE27]

Do I need to change the converter and the inverter?

Inverter? That's a BIG NO.
Converter? - if you want it to keep the LFP batteries at 100% SOC - yes. Otherwise they may drop to as low as 55% SOC after the converter goes into Float Mode.

Don't forget to consider the house battery bank/Chassis battery interconnection system. Don't want to bring that alternator to an early grave or constantly charge the chassis battery from the house battery bank when boondocking.

What model Quantum do you have?

 

[JustJason72]

Thank you for the quick reply. Starting to think this may be more trouble than it's worth.
Any suggestions on type,size and brand of converter?

 

[16ACE27]

Thank you for the quick reply. Starting to think this may be more trouble than it's worth.
Any suggestions on type,size and brand of converter?

Depends on what converter you have. You could just get a stand-alone Li compatible charger like this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074X1QK2R?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_23

Do a little research and it is a no-brainer to make the upgrade to LFP batteries.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Best to ask FIRST... why do you want to "upgrade"? Are your existing batteries toast, or are they just underperforming? Do you feel you need more amp hours (watt hours) for extending dry camping time?

These answers will help to understand the WHY... then the forum can inject answers/opinions about proceeding.

 

[Mark54]

Thank you for the quick reply. Starting to think this may be more trouble than it's worth.
Any suggestions on type,size and brand of converter?

It's worth the trouble if you plan to boondock any length of time. my upgraded 200A to 600A = 7200Wh of power, so I can go 3-5 days, depending on roof AC and appliance use.

Inverter can be any size, but I would match the one you are replacing so you don't have to change the wires. More amp draw would mean larger gauge cables, generally speaking.
What is the existing one?
I upgraded from 200A to 600A, but kept my usage the same, so same wire gauge used, 2/0 in my case (aka "00" gauge) Use an ampacity chart to see if you need to upgrade the cables.
Converter needs to be able to accomodate Lithium batteries, as they need 14.6V to charge, as opposed to 13.6V for lead-acid/AGM.
Fusing is also really important- mfr. usually has a recommendation in the manual.

Inverters can vary, but generally just need to be able to 'invert' 13.6VDC lithium power to 120VAC. So make sure it is compatible in that respect- could be a dipswitch setting on the unit, or manual will show a range of input DC voltages, so just be sure on that.
I like Victron mostly, but Renogy is also ok.

If you feel the need to replace both Inverter and Converter, then look at the Combimaster units. Has inverter and converter built in same box. Not hard to connect- comes off my ATS, charges batteries and also can switch to inverter mode.

CombiMaster | Mastervolt .

CombiMaster | Mastervolt

www.mastervolt.com

The first number is the DC volt input, second number is the watt output, 3rd is AC output, 120 or 230VAC. Just try to match all numbers to keep the useage the same. I have the Combi 12/300/160 (120V) unit and love it. I added a remote switch to turn inverter on w/o using the mastervolt remote display.

 

[ducksface]

Experience has told me the upgrade of the bim has no value as far as heat is concerned.
It simply changes the charging cycle time from 15ish minutes to 20+minutes.

You converter will do fine. If it is five(ish) years old or newer it'll figure out what batteries you have or it will have a switch.

The bms in modern luthiums take over from the float system built into your converter.

Put the new lithiums in without changing other things.
If somehow this doesn't fit your needs, adjust later by adding a DC to DC charger.
Buy a Bluetooth shunt or Bluetooth batteries to know instead of guess as to how it's working.

Your current system cannot hurt a modern bms equipped lithium battery.

 

[Beau388]

Most modern converters (2020 and up) can be easily set-up for LFP batteries. Even my 2018 PPS converter only took a $50 clip conversion to move the charging and float voltage up 14.2 and 13.5 volts. The conversion was done with the converter in the power center (turn off the power, unscrew the cover plate for the port, insert the replacement circuit board in the port and replace the cover plate).

 

[16ACE27]

Most modern converters (2020 and up) can be easily set-up for LFP batteries. Even my 2018 PPS converter only took a $50 clip conversion to move the charging and float voltage up 14.2 and 13.5 volts. The conversion was done with the converter in the power center (turn off the power, unscrew the cover plate for the port, insert the replacement circuit board in the port and replace the cover plate).

OP has a 2017 RV. Probably a FLA WFCO converter.

 

[JustJason72]

Thanks for the reply. Rv coming out of storage next week. I'll see if that is an option when I can get a look at the converter.

 

[dkoldman]

I am wanting to upgrade my two marine lead a is batteries to lithium. I have a Xantrex XM1000.
Do I need to change the converter and the inverter?
If so, what should I upgrade to?

Thanks

You are thinking right, given you wish or need to replace two marine batteries, you should buy Lithiums and you should make the conversion now to support Lithium.

I did this last year and there is a thread step by step of what I chose to do. CSW Inverter E03 Error Code

I read and appreciated all of the options, pros and cons, but I decided on what made me most comfortable.

I spent $400ish on one single 300ah battery I have basically tripled my capacity.

I spent $400ish on new Converter, and DC to DC. 4 years ago I was getting $4,000 estimate for a conversion and I am not sure I even liked the designs that were being floated at the time. I sure was not quoted Progress Dynamics Converter nor Victron 50 amp DC to DC.

So for me given that I had to spend $400 on batteries, I was not staying with FLA, it sounds like you know this.

I did the labor myself so that was factor on why I only spent $400. I did my conversion step by step. I was going to do it over a year to use my FLA to the last possible moment but it was so easy, I did the entire thing in 3 months.

I assume al your equipment is 8 years old, this is what I would based on what little I know.

1. Find new easy to replace converter that supports FLA and Lithium profile. Install it and run on a FLA profile

2. If you have BIM, find and replace with Li BIM, I did not have a BIM and I did not want a BIM because I wanted current being supplied 100% of the time when my engine is running. You may not need, but I did so I put a switch to disable my Trombetta and installed a new Orion XS DC to DC, I set the profile for my DC to DC to run on FLA profile.

3. Lastly I found a surprised great deal on 300ah Lithium Battery. Installed it and changed profiles for Converter and Orion XS.

I really love it and and every $1 well spent.

Note: A new Inverter is not needed for Lithium Conversion. Ironically because my OEM 1000watt Inverter was damaged during a blowout, when I was testing the new one generic after market 2200watt I notice my House batteries were losing it's punch. So I wanted to ultimately replace my batteries which I figured had a limited life remaining.

 

[The Rookie]

I recently went thru this upgrade. 2x100 Ah LFPs. I installed a Powermax Lithium capable converter. My previous converter was going out and I needed new chassis batteries. So , I just went with the upgrade to LFP for possible future upgrades. Recently installed the Li-BIM. As for the Li-BIM, as said above, how you think you will use your batteries helps. See attached file for the Li-BIM connection criteria.

Also, I have talked to several folks that are perfectly happy keeping their FLA setup

 

[dkoldman]

Also, I have talked to several folks that are perfectly happy keeping their FLA setup

I put that statement with the old saying, "you can't lose (miss) what you never had."

I feel I got lucky to recognize my batteries FLA were approaching their last leg. In years passed, most would agree the cost for Lithium batteries and the conversion was ridiculously expensive. But now may be good time to go Lithium because we don't know how expensive they may be this summer, if they are even available with tariffs and supply chain issues pending?

But to your point, I was perfectly happy years 2 through 5 with my RV's FLA batteries after I switched to AGM. I was not happy with the brand new OEM FLA as they just did not have enough ah capacity. I bought the AGMs because it was out of my price range to buy Lithium system then. I still cringe when I see people paying $900 for one 100AH battery

 

[The Rookie]

I put that statement with the old saying, "you can't lose (miss) what you never had."

I feel I got lucky to recognize my batteries FLA were approaching their last leg. In years passed, most would agree the cost for Lithium batteries and the conversion was ridiculously expensive. But now may be good time to go Lithium because we don't know how expensive they may be this summer, if they are even available with tariffs and supply chain issues pending?

But to your point, I was perfectly happy years 2 through 5 with my RV's FLA batteries after I switched to AGM. I was not happy with the brand new OEM FLA as they just did not have enough ah capacity. I bought the AGMs because it was out of my price range to buy Lithium system then. I still cringe when I see people paying $900 for one 100AH battery

Ooof $900!?
Batteryfinder.net

Whoever it was that posted on here about batteryfinder, I thank you!

 

[dkoldman]

Ooof $900!?
Batteryfinder.net

Whoever it was that posted on here about batteryfinder, I thank you!

That site is awesome. It has the link to the 300ah Newtipower I bought. It is only $346. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXSSHW5V/

At the same time many RV owners will ONLY buy Battleborn Lithium. They listen to some guy on the web that cut up batteries and do all type of industrial testing. So they buy Battleborn and they are in fact $900 for 100ah. Amazon.com

Go to Battleborn's site and they are even more. $949 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Heated Battery Kit

It cost $2,000 to just get 200ah capacity, I have 300ah capacity for less than $400.

 

[The Rookie]

That site is awesome. It has the link to the 300ah Newyipower I bought. It is only $346. Amazon.com

At the same time many RV owners will ONLY buy Battleborn Lithium. They listen to some guy on the web that cut up batteries and do all type of industrial testing. So they buy Battleborn and they are in fact $900 for 100ah. Amazon.com

Go to Battleborn's site and they are even more. $949 https://battlebornbatteries.com/pro...h5JoR1KbojRdrJVWQ8_fY_eGzBbYk4UUaAtdSEALw_wcB

It cost $2,000 to just get 200ah capacity, I have 300ah capacity for less than $400.

Exactly, I watched that site for weeks checking brands/prices.

 

[PreCambrian]

I recently installed two Li Time Group 24 100AH LiFePO4 batteries with bluetooth and did a bunch of tests. Before I disconnected, I measured the charging current on my VRLA Group 24 batteries at less than 50% charge (12.0V) and it was 45A from the alternator on my Ford E350 chassis. It has a 220A alternator. After I installed the Li Time batteries which were at 50% SOC, I started the E350 and measured the charging current, it was 40A. I went dry camping for three days to test the batteries and they got down to 20% SOC. I started the E350 and it charged at 50A for a couple of minutes and then it dropped to between 40 to 45A depending on the rpm. So I do not plan on installing a BIM or anything else. I realize that the alternator might not get the batteries to 100% SOC but most likely 80%. I would recommend installing the new batteries (I also installed a new converter in my power distribution center that is selectable for either lithium or lead acid batteries) and checking the alternator output. If it is within the limits that you want then I wouldn't mess with a BIM in the alternator circuit. I also tested the starting of the generator, which took 80A to start.

Sorry, posted this to the wrong thread. It slightly applies but not as much as to the thread that I will repost it to.

 

[k_enn]

Okay, I keep hearing different things you need/don't when switching to lithium. I have a 2023 Miramar and am looking to switch. Other than the batteries, what else do I need to change?

 

[ducksface]

On modern lithiums you need just the batteries.
Anyone who says differently needs to post real facts based on tech from the last two years or so and not 10year old exploitive self serving industry produced propaganda.
Even battleborn has rewritten most of their scary stories.

If you just drop in lithiums with no other changes your lithiums will last at least 80% of their warranted time before they drop TO 80% Of INITIAL CAPACITY.


Worst case, absolutely worse case;
If your charger doesn't have a lithium setting your new lithiums will only charge to 80+(ish)%.

 

[16ACE27]

Other than the batteries, what else do I need to change?

Did you read the thread?
"Need" is subjective - so what conclusion did you come to for your situation/style of camping and why?
Much depends on which and quantity of LFP batteries you install.
Many can get by with Duck's answer.
All should consider post #2, especially if you have a BIRD/Trombetta.

Once we have a better sense of your needs you will receive better answers.