Victron VE.direct smart dongle incorrectly showing 11.77vdc

[dkoldman]

Based on a tip I saw on another thread I purchased a brand new VE.Direct Smart Dongle.

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Ener...ocphy=9192225&hvtargid=pla-423167051188&psc=1

My Victron Smart Shunt previously installed has worked fine and been very accurate. It displays the same voltage readings with the Victron DC2DC that I also have.

However, yesterday I noticed that when reading the bluetooth readings from the VE.Direct Smart Dongle it will frequently read 11.77 volts DC on the INPUT Starter Battery and that is not true. The Smart Shunt will always show the correct input (Chassis battery) voltage which has been ranging from 12.2vdc to 12.4vdc.

Note 1: When I installed the VE.Direct Dongle it did update the firmware successfully.

Note 2: The false reading is random and always 11.77vdc on the INPUT Starter battery (thus far only had 2 days). It may on occasion after some other random reconnection display the correct voltage. When it does the voltage is exactly what the Smart Shunt shows.

Note 3: I only added the VE.Direct Smart Dongle out of belief I may be able to get longer range than the Bluetooth on the Smart Shunt. That appears to be true, There are times when I walk away I can't see the Smart Shunt but the App will have the VE. Direct Smart but INPUT Starter reading may be wrong.

Note 4: The VE.Direct Smart Dongle is plugged in directly to the VE.Direct Port on the Smart Shunt.

Any ideas, should I simply return and give up, or is it likely that I truly have a defective unit and I can replace, or am I doing something wrong?

 

[16ACE27]

What did Victron say when you contacted them about this issue?

 

[dkoldman]

What did Victron say when you contacted them about this issue?

In previous attempts to contacts Victron, they had no way for me to actually contact them. They always defer you to your Authorized dealer that you bought the product from. In this case, it would be the Seller on Amazon.

With that said, I did find a similar issue on Victron's Knowledge site. It appears to be about 2 years old and it was the opposite issue where the displayed voltage was a uniformed .6vdc higher than the Smart Shunt. See https://communityarchive.victronene...rectly.html?childToView=117260#comment-117260

I will see what the Seller / hopefully Authorized Dealer says. Amazon says I need to give the Seller 2 days to respond. I was hoping to not get a simple return it and we give you a refund reply. At only $40, it would be nice if it worked consistently, but I have not permanently installed; so it is easy to return if I have to.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

My guess is a faulty internal firmware calibration. If your phone is within a couple feet of the Bluetooth dongle and all connections are secure and it's giving obviously incorrect readings (or jumping around, etc.), that would confirm my suspicious. The dongle uses BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). I'm currently working on a project that uses BLE, and it can be quirky at times.

Just to be ABSOLUTELY certain beyond any doubt, use a good voltmeter to take readings directly off the battery posts... in the off chance the shunt might be off. It likely isn't, but weird things sometimes happen.

 

[dkoldman]

My guess is a faulty internal firmware calibration. If your phone is within a couple feet of the Bluetooth dongle and all connections are secure and it's giving obviously incorrect readings (or jumping around, etc.), that would confirm my suspicious. The dongle uses BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). I'm currently working on a project that uses BLE, and it can be quirky at times.

Just to be ABSOLUTELY certain beyond any doubt, use a good voltmeter to take readings directly off the battery posts... in the off chance the shunt might be off. It likely isn't, but weird things sometimes happen.

Quirky sounds about right.

Chassis (Starter battery) from Voltmeter = 12.21 vdc
Victron Smart Shunt = 12.21 vdc
Victron VE.Direct Smart Dongle = 12.21vdc

Note: It is actually working properly at this moment I am 100% sure there is no issue with Smart Shunt or DC2DC charging reading the correct dc voltage as both battery banks.

The issue is why the Bluetooth displays or reports through the Victron Connect App the false value of 11.77vdc randomly? I am going to guess at 50/50 being right value versus wrong value.

Since the false value is always 11.77vdc I a beginning to thing there is some condition programmed in the firmware that has it display 11.77vdc for the Starter battery.

I spent extra on Victron with a plan to slowly add on to the system but this has me stomped. In fact, if recommendation is for me to replace, I may not wish to replace with same seller as the other units are likely from same batch.

I see people referring to wiring but I don't see how? The Smart Shunts works fine. There is no wiring per se for the ve.direct because it is simply plugged into the the Smart Shunt and I thought it was just displaying what the Smart Shunt is saying? It is not 50% of the time.

Maybe it will self correct usage and burn in, or a new firmware will come soon?

On a side note...

When I first saw this yesterday, I assume it was correct and I kind of freaked out because I had never seen the Chassis battery that low. I falsely accused my brand new 4 month old Ever Start battery as not being as reliable as my 6 year old OEM Motorcraft battery. I had switched the batteries last week from the Old Navigator with the RV. I am thinking of selling the old Navigator so it now has the OEM Motorcraft in it although 6 years old. But I now know the battery is not the issue.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

I still think it's an issue with the dongle itself. All these devices use a simple voltage divider circuit. That's where the quirky comes in. Is it accurate when you're within a few feet, then starts going bonkers when some distance away?

This is where Amazon prime comes in handy... I just got a small development IC board that was DOA. A quick online "chat" and I had a credit applied... didn't even need to return the component.

 

[dkoldman]

I still think it's an issue with the dongle itself. All these devices use a simple voltage divider circuit. That's where the quirky comes in. Is it accurate when you're within a few feet, then starts going bonkers when some distance away?

This is where Amazon prime comes in handy... I just got a small development IC board that was DOA. A quick online "chat" and I had a credit applied... didn't even need to return the component.

I don't recall seeing the 11.7vdc reading within a few feet. The next time I see 11.77vdc I will go outside to the Battery staircase and try again.

Note: If that works, solves the problem or turns out to be the issue, then the VE. Direct Smart Dongle would be useless for me. I may better served to save the money for extra insurance I will need if I ever put Solar Panels on my roof that blows off

Remember, I already have a Smart Shunt that I can see and read everything from anywhere in or around the RV with no issues.

The purpose of buying the VE.Direct Smart was to get a 2nd Bluetooth source and display on my Victron Connect so I could read the Smart Shunt's settings when in the house when the DC2DC is OFF because engine is not running.

With that said, it has been a few hours now and I have not seen the 11.77vdc come back. It is not repeatable as I cannot make it falsely read, it just does when it does it.

The firmware shows current v4.16, I don't know if it did an additional auto update or not. I wish I had looked at the version yesterday after I first installed it.

The below is what it looks like for all 3 devices standing outside of the RV. When I go in the house and sit on the couch, the Smart Shunt will drop off, but I can still see the Orion XS & the VE.Direct Smart Dongle, but if the VE.Direct is going to show me 11.77vdc for starter battery half the time, it has no real value to me. I take that back, I can look at the Orion XS and see the Input Voltage. The real gap for me wanting the extended range is to read the Output voltage ( House batteries) when engine off. The Orion XS will always show 0.0vdc if engine is off. Ironically the flawed VE.direct smart does show the correct House voltage. So technically I can get at all of the data needed, it is just that the VE.Direct Smart dongle is randomly not working for input voltage

 

[halfprice-THOR]

First i would call Battle Born. They are the unofficial tech support for Victron.

I bought the dongle for the same reason as you. To get readings in the house. My Renegades compartments are all metal and that blocks the Bluetooth signal a lot.

I found you have to approve an update they are not automatic. When you open the app the * in the top left will show you there is a message. Click on that and follow to the update.

If it were me and still in the return period with Amazon if just replace it and see if the problem continues or is fxed

Jerry

 

[halfprice-THOR]

Mine is also v4.16 firmware so you appear to be up to date

Jrrry

 

[macdaddy1111]

Based on a tip I saw on another thread I purchased a brand new VE.Direct Smart Dongle.

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Ener...ocphy=9192225&hvtargid=pla-423167051188&psc=1

My Victron Smart Shunt previously installed has worked fine and been very accurate. It displays the same voltage readings with the Victron DC2DC that I also have.

However, yesterday I noticed that when reading the bluetooth readings from the VE.Direct Smart Dongle it will frequently read 11.77 volts DC on the INPUT Starter Battery and that is not true. The Smart Shunt will always show the correct input (Chassis battery) voltage which has been ranging from 12.2vdc to 12.4vdc.

Note 1: When I installed the VE.Direct Dongle it did update the firmware successfully.

Note 2: The false reading is random and always 11.77vdc on the INPUT Starter battery (thus far only had 2 days). It may on occasion after some other random reconnection display the correct voltage. When it does the voltage is exactly what the Smart Shunt shows.

Note 3: I only added the VE.Direct Smart Dongle out of belief I may be able to get longer range than the Bluetooth on the Smart Shunt. That appears to be true, There are times when I walk away I can't see the Smart Shunt but the App will have the VE. Direct Smart but INPUT Starter reading may be wrong.

Note 4: The VE.Direct Smart Dongle is plugged in directly to the VE.Direct Port on the Smart Shunt.

Any ideas, should I simply return and give up, or is it likely that I truly have a defective unit and I can replace, or am I doing something wrong?

Same reading if you unplug dongle?

Victron release ton of firmware updates recently



I

 

[dkoldman]

First i would call Battle Born. They are the unofficial tech support for Victron.

I bought the dongle for the same reason as you. To get readings in the house. My Renegades compartments are all metal and that blocks the Bluetooth signal a lot.

I found you have to approve an update they are not automatic. When you open the app the * in the top left will show you there is a message. Click on that and follow to the update.

If it were me and still in the return period with Amazon if just replace it and see if the problem continues or is fxed

Jerry

I didn't know that about Battle Born, I will keep that in mind. Victron's documentation has been pretty good. That Orion XS configuration setup was a tool though. You can make it as complex if you like. The App is awesome, not sure I will get or need Cerbo.

I will take your advice on the return, I have Prime until 12/30 as that is when I will cancel.

 

[dkoldman]

Same reading if you unplug dongle?

If I follow your question, if the ve.direct smart dongle is disconnected or connected it has no impact to what the Smart Shunt or Orion XS will show. The Smart Shunt and Orion XS Chassis battery is always the same as to what the voltmeter says.

Even when the Ve.direct smart dongle is dispalying 11.77vdc, the Smart Shunt & Orion reads exactly what the voltmeter says the battery is. Unplugging the ve.direct smart dongle makes no difference on the values for other blurthooth devices.

Victron release ton of firmware updates recently



I

Yes on the firmware, yesterday when I installed the ve.direct smart dingle after updating it's firmware it would later ask to update the firmware for Orion XS and the Smart Shunt as stated by Halfprice above.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

You'll be lucky to get a useable BLE signal that far. It may connect and appear to display, but it won't receive consistent packets... or may drop altogether... EVEN though it looks connected on your phone app.

BLE is only good for 50' at best. Put metal and drywall in the way and all bets are off.

A BLE connected device isn't the best option for what you're trying to achieve.

A 433 MHz device would work much better.

 

[dkoldman]

You'll be lucky to get a useable BLE signal that far. It may connect and appear to display, but it won't receive consistent packets... or may drop altogether... EVEN though it looks connected on your phone app.

BLE is only good for 50' at best. Put metal and drywall in the way and all bets are off.

A BLE connected device isn't the best option for what you're trying to achieve.

A 433 MHz device would work much better.

You may have miss the point of why I am doing what I have done?

#1. I bought the Orion XS several months ago this Summer BEFORE going to lithium. It has always worked inside the house, with blue tooth. My guess is 75-80' to where our main TV is and it even works in the MBR.

#2. I decided to buy the Smart Shunt maybe 2 months ago after I had the Lithium batteries installed. I then noticed that the Bluetooth from the Smart Shunt does not have the same range as the Orion XS.

#3. After some review, I learned that the Ve.direct smart dongle is suppose to have a longer bluetooth range than the Smart Shunt.

#4. So I bought a Ve.direct smart to find out. I have learned that it does have longer range, my guess is 20 - 30 feet longer? But range is not the problem now unless somehow the Ve.direct bluetooth is originally transmitting the correct value and after a certain distance it transpose the data to11.77vdc for Starter battery :nonono:

Note: Again it is not a connectivity issue for the VE.Direct but a data accuracy. Now one could argue that range is issue with the Smart Shunt, but I was simply looking for a simple solution with Victron Connect. If wanted to, I could add Cerbo GX configure VRM to my T Mobile WiFi and I can see all of the settings anywhere in the world with my phone or laptop.

I ran the engine about an hour. It has been off about an hour and now I am showing 12.66vdc. It is worth noting that I have not seen the 11.77vdc in the last 5 hours or so. I am hoping by using it, it make break in on it's own or at least produce a pattern to help someone figure out what may be occurring.

I disconnected my SP yesterday. So everything in coach is OFF, including the disconnect switch. It got close to freezing last night but not quite. I have zero draw so I don't need SP nor trickle charge on the chassis battery. I have a trip coming up soon, so the ve.direct will get a workout.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

You may have miss the point of why I am doing what I have done?

#1. I bought the Orion XS several months ago this Summer BEFORE going to lithium. It has always worked inside the house, with blue tooth. My guess is 75-80' to where our main TV is and it even works in the MBR.

#2. I decided to buy the Smart Shunt maybe 2 months ago after I had the Lithium batteries installed. I then noticed that the Bluetooth from the Smart Shunt does not have the same range as the Orion XS.

#3. After some review, I learned that the Ve.direct smart dongle is suppose to have a longer bluetooth range than the Smart Shunt.

#4. So I bought a Ve.direct smart to find out. I have learned that it does have longer range, my guess is 20 - 30 feet longer? But range is not the problem now unless somehow the Ve.direct bluetooth is originally transmitting the correct value and after a certain distance it transpose the data to11.77vdc for Starter battery :nonono:

Note: Again it is not a connectivity issue for the VE.Direct but a data accuracy. Now one could argue that range is issue with the Smart Shunt, but I was simply looking for a simple solution with Victron Connect. If wanted to, I could add Cerbo GX configure VRM to my T Mobile WiFi and I can see all of the settings anywhere in the world with my phone or laptop.

I ran the engine about an hour. It has been off about an hour and now I am showing 12.66vdc. It is worth noting that I have not seen the 11.77vdc in the last 5 hours or so. I am hoping by using it, it make break in on it's own or at least produce a pattern to help someone figure out what may be occurring.

I disconnected my SP yesterday. So everything in coach is OFF, including the disconnect switch. It got close to freezing last night but not quite. I have zero draw so I don't need SP nor trickle charge on the chassis battery. I have a trip coming up soon, so the ve.direct will get a workout.

I understood you want another option for battery monitoring inside your house. I repeat... you might get lucky. It all depends on device signal propagation and whatever might be blocking it. Great that the data evened out.

 

[dkoldman]

I understood you want another option for battery monitoring inside your house. I repeat... you might get lucky. It all depends on device signal propagation and whatever might be blocking it. Great that the data evened out.

Not really another option, I wanted to use the Victron App. I simply questioned why the bluetooth on Victron App would work for the Orion XS DC2DC sevice but not the Victron Smart Shunt? See post from Half Price above as he had same issue.

The irony is that in my case while the signals were connecting from the Ve.direct Smart, it just was returning the wrong data. St least as of this morning. I have not seen the 11.77vdc return now in almost 7 hours. It may be related to when you suggested I get with in few feet and take actual measurements with voltmeter. My phone has been in the house the entire time since and it is correctly reading 12.63vdc.

I am just going to wait to see what the seller says. If I can get a chance to swap it I will.

When this is all done, I can check from in the house without going outside t see if SP is on/off or if there is some appliance in RV that was left on that needs to be turn off.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

Are you SURE it's reading correctly? Is it mirroring your other non-Victron app? Have you put a load on the battery to make the display change (with your phone in the house)? Does the display update to reflect the voltage drops?

The reason I'm asking is because some apps will just freeze with the last known value displayed when losing signal.

 

[dkoldman]

Are you SURE it's reading correctly? I am sure it was NOT reading correcty. At this moment it is reading correctly because what it displays is the same voltage on the actual battery. But all day yesterday and this morning it was NOT reading correctly.

Is it mirroring your other non-Victron app?

It is suppose to be directly displaying what the Smart Shunt values are. My belief if that both Bluetooth sources are reading from same firmware source on Smart Shunt. This gives me an idea, because I could plug the VE.Direct Smart into my Orion XS and see if it reads correct values with it or if it has an issue with the Input or starter battery voltage?


Have you put a load on the battery to make the display change (with your phone in the house)? Yes Does the display update to reflect the voltage drops? Not when it is reading 11.77vdc, yes when it is reading the proper voltage. I can go out now and turn on my Battery Disconnect and it will show 6watts being consumed.

The reason I'm asking is because some apps will just freeze with the last known value displayed when losing signal.

It is as if it is freezing, but only freezing on the Input Starter battery value, all other values are working like they should when it was frozen on 11.77vdc.

I just disconnected and reconnected and it came up correctly with 12.61 vdc so it seems to working not at this moment.

I am gonna make a prediction, that some time tonight or tomorrow that it may start to freeze again on a input starter battery value but it will be some higher than 11.77vdc? I am beginning to think the 11.77vdc may have been actual value stored in the ve.direct registers from a previous user of my ve.direct device? It is suppose to be brand new but perhaps I got a return?

Since my chassis battery was at it's lowest of 12.21vdc, I am gonna guess that if I say it is incorrect reading again it will be between 12.21 and 12.61 vdc?

 

[dkoldman]

Update

So about an hour ago, I noticed the Starter Battery was reading 12.21 vdc. The actual battery voltage was 12.61vdc.

I just watched it, I noticed the House Battery ( Output) was reading 13.52vdc. The batteries are at 100% SOC and no SP. The House battery voltage with flicker back and forth to 13.51vdc to 13.52vdc but the 12.21vdc would as if it was frozen.

So it looks like 12.21vdc is my new frozen incorrect value? I don't expect to ever see the 11.77vdc value again.



So I turned on SP. Nothing happened. It stayed at 12.21vdc but not surprising because SP does nothing for my Chassis battery. The house battery stayed at 13.52vdc even though the charger was on. Maybe not surprising either because the house battery is at 100% SOC and on Converter Lithium Profile it would be in Absorption about 13.6vdc?

So I go outside leaving Phone with app in the house. I start the RV and check the app. The Chassis battery went to 14.24vdc as well as the House battery because now it is getting current from the DC2DC.



So something is definitely wrong. It seems to store some starter battery reading at some point in time in a register and retain, then it randomly reads that from that register indefinitely until some other significant event to go pull / read a new value from the Smart shunt.

 

[Chateau_Nomad]

If you think about it, why would the reading change without a "significant event", like charging or discharging?

So is the "Voltage" display in the pic you posted the house battery voltage? If so, why didn't that value change when you started the engine? I'm not familiar with Victron specific apps...