We are stranded. Engine won’t start

[ThePoshTrekker]

Good morning from a newbie! (I’m managing expectations right off the bat). We have a 2018 Thor Windsport. We are on our 2nd trip and it’s been …a bit rough.

We got to the site and noticed our floor was wet. We found that 2 Damp Rid containers burst and the collected fluid spilled and drained through the closet and onto the floor of the bedroom and bath. Per Damp Rid, the only way to clean it up is by using lots of water to overwhelm the calcium chloride that attracts water. Otherwise it will continue to pull moisture from the air and the spill will expand.

We did this, and carefully dried everything. However, our inverter started to alarm the next day. We hadn’t realized fluid had gotten into the inverter compartment (didn’t actually know the inverter was under a drawer in the closet), and the inverter was standing in the fluid. We pulled the inverter out of the compartment and cleaned up the fluid. The inverter won’t start, so suspect it’s toast. We plugged the refrigerator in with an extension cord (I think this is all it powered…).

But now, the chassis engine won’t start. The chassis battery is full, according to the panel. But when I turn the key there is no sound at all. The sunshade won’t retract. The auto leveling system won’t turn on.

A couple things I noticed: I had left the “cab light” switch on, but did not turn on the cab lights (now off). We also had a gps system plugged into a port on the console( now unplugged). Lastly, while I was driving I heard a clicking sound, sort of like a turn signal sound, but no signal was on.

So…. Could the inverter damage be related to the engine not starting? The converter is under the bed and we have not checked that. If the converter is damaged, could that prevent the engine from starting? Would using the emergency start function do anything if the battery is showing full?

I’m sorry for the long post, but I’m hoping someone can help. It was my idea to get an RV, and hubby is thus far less than impressed!

 

[16ACE27]

The chassis battery has nothing to do with the leveling system not turning on - not sure about the sunshade.
Assuming the chassis battery is actually fully charged - have you tried moving the shift lever to NEUTRAL?
Are any lights/gauges responding when you turn the key on?

 

[Lt Keefer]

Try using the emergency start button. Push and hold the button while trying to start the coach. I'm not positive, but I thought the leveling system and the sunshade in my Hurricane ran off the chassis battery. Sometimes when leveling, I will get a low voltage warning and ramping up the engine solves that problem.

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

The lever seems to be locked. I’ve tried turning the wheel to release it but the wheel appears to be locked as well. No lights turn on, but the radio does. On the plus side, the cab lights now turn on and the sunshade makes a beeping sound when I try to raise it. It still doesn’t move, but it makes a sound. The auto leveling system does not turn on.

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

Try using the emergency start button. Push and hold the button while trying to start the coach. I'm not positive, but I thought the leveling system and the sunshade in my Hurricane ran off the chassis battery. Sometimes when leveling, I will get a low voltage warning and ramping up the engine solves that problem.

Thank you! We just got a jump and we’re back in business! The battery was only putting out 5v, so it looks like we need a new one. We had a mobile RV repair guy come out and he’s wonderful!!!! Still figuring out the inverter, but at least we’re running again!

 

[16ACE27]

Try using the emergency start button. Push and hold the button while trying to start the coach. I'm not positive, but I thought the leveling system and the sunshade in my Hurricane ran off the chassis battery. Sometimes when leveling, I will get a low voltage warning and ramping up the engine solves that problem.

I haven't seen a Thor leveling system yet that ran off the chassis battery. The 100 amp DC breaker from the house battery bank goes directly to the hydraulic pump and controller. The leveling control panel does have a "Low Voltage" light that is usually cleared by running the engine or being plugged into SP (or running the generator) as it wants the house battery voltage to be in the "being charged" range to lower amps to the hydraulic motor.

Thank you! We just got a jump and we’re back in business! The battery was only putting out 5v, so it looks like we need a new one. We had a mobile RV repair guy come out and he’s wonderful!!!! Still figuring out the inverter, but at least we’re running again!

You need to figure out why your "chassis battery" showed "full, according to the panel." if it was only at 5 volts.

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

Final update: a cable had come loose from the battery that the converter supplies power to. This caused the house batteries to discharge which caused the inverter to stop working. When the mobile RV repair person reacted the cable, power was reestablished to the inverter. Once power was re-established, after a few minutes, the inverter began to work just fine. Coincidentally, at the same time, the chassis battery failed. We went to an auto supply store to buy a new battery, but the one they sold us does not fit. We will have the battery replaced at an actual RV service center. In the meantime, if the battery is dead again in the morning, one of our fellow campers has a jumper and we have the emergency start. Thank you all so much for your really helpful advice! Seems like we’re on the road again!

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

I haven't seen a Thor leveling system yet that ran off the chassis battery. The 100 amp DC breaker from the house battery bank goes directly to the hydraulic pump and controller. The leveling control panel does have a "Low Voltage" light that is usually cleared by running the engine or being plugged into SP (or running the generator) as it wants the house battery voltage to be in the "being charged" range to lower amps to the hydraulic motor.


You need to figure out why your "chassis battery" showed "full, according to the panel." if it was only at 5 volts.

Final update: a cable had come loose from the battery that the converter supplies power to. This caused the house batteries to discharge which caused the inverter to stop working. When the mobile RV repair person reacted the cable, power was reestablished to the inverter. Once power was re-established, after a few minutes, the inverter began to work just fine. Coincidentally, at the same time, the chassis battery failed. We went to an auto supply store to buy a new battery, but the one they sold us does not fit. We will have the battery replaced at an actual RV service center. In the meantime, if the battery is dead again in the morning, one of our fellow campers has a jumper and we have the emergency start. Thank you all so much for your really helpful advice! Seems like we’re on the road again!

Final final update . The battery indicator I was looking at was actually the house battery, not the battery that turns the engine on. I will definitely know in the future!

 

[16ACE27]

Final final update . The battery indicator I was looking at was actually the house battery, not the battery that turns the engine on. I will definitely know in the future!

Then your Emergency Start should have worked if the house batteries were fully charged.
Your chassis battery is not a special RV battery. I don't know what the auto supply store sold you but what you need is a Group 65 battery with at least 750 CCA; available at Wally World and most other batteru supply places. I found the best deal for mine several years ago at HomeDepot.

 

[PS89]

The chassis battery has nothing to do with the leveling system not turning on

I haven't seen a Thor leveling system yet that ran off the chassis battery.

The levelers require BOTH the chassis battery (for the control electronics, through an ignition-switched relay) and the coach/house battery (for the hydraulic pump).

The sunshade and a number of other accessories in the front also run off the chassis battery.

The inverter under the bottom drawer under the bedroom TV set is only for the residential fridge for units that got that type of fridge instead of the LP/electric models. The inverter that is connected to the display on the wall outside the bathroom is mounted under the bed. Remove the panel under the mattress above the load center to access it.

There is no plausible reason for the fridge inverter and fluid issue in the house to have cause the problem with the chassis battery. Either something got left on (easy to do for a new owner) or the battery simply reached its end of life and expired.

BTW, what area are you currently traveling in?

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

Then your Emergency Start should have worked if the house batteries were fully charged.
Your chassis battery is not a special RV battery. I don't know what the auto supply store sold you but what you need is a Group 65 battery with at least 750 CCA; available at Wally World and most other batteru supply places. I found the best deal for mine several years ago at HomeDepot.

Thanks! I didn’t realize that the emergency start button needed to be held down while turning the ignition key. I think (?) it wold have worked if I’d known how to do it. The prior owners had a full owner’s manual, but the dealer forgot they had it so just printed so general information. They located the full manual and I stopped by today to pick it up. I’m reading it now and learning lots!

The levelers require BOTH the chassis battery (for the control electronics, through an ignition-switched relay) and the coach/house battery (for the hydraulic pump).

The sunshade and a number of other accessories in the front also run off the chassis battery.

The inverter under the bottom drawer under the bedroom TV set is only for the residential fridge for units that got that type of fridge instead of the LP/electric models. The inverter that is connected to the display on the wall outside the bathroom is mounted under the bed. Remove the panel under the mattress above the load center to access it.

There is no plausible reason for the fridge inverter and fluid issue in the house to have cause the problem with the chassis battery. Either something got left on (easy to do for a new owner) or the battery simply reached its end of life and expired.

BTW, what area are you currently traveling in?

Thanks for your answer! We realized the only thing plugged into the inverter under the bottom drawer in the bedroom was only connected to the refrigerator, so we got an extension cord and plugged the refrigerator into one of the bedroom outlets. That at least kept the refrigerator working. At first we thought the inverter quit working bc of the fluid from the Damp Rid bag. But even after it dried out, it would not turn on.

The mobile rv repair man tested all the fuses on the panel on the side of the bed, then went out to look at the batteries in the outside compartment. He found that a wire (or maybe cord?) had come off the terminal it should have been connected to. And that (and I may be totally wrong about this as I don’t understand electrical stuff) caused something to be depleted…I think he said it was the converter. Anyway, he reconnected it and the inverter fired right up.

As to the chassis battery, he tested it and said it was only putting out 5 volts and suggested we replace it. Which was odd bc it has a 12/23 sticker on it. I had inadvertently left the “cab lights” switch on, but hadn’t turned the lights on…maybe that drained the battery? It started just fine this morning so I’m not sure.

We were in Depoe Bay, Oregon when all of this happened. We’re home now and I’m happily reading the owners manual I just got from the dealer today. Hopefully that, and everyone’s kind input, will help me learn!

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

I haven't seen a Thor leveling system yet that ran off the chassis battery. The 100 amp DC breaker from the house battery bank goes directly to the hydraulic pump and controller. The leveling control panel does have a "Low Voltage" light that is usually cleared by running the engine or being plugged into SP (or running the generator) as it wants the house battery voltage to be in the "being charged" range to lower amps to the hydraulic motor.


You need to figure out why your "chassis battery" showed "full, according to the panel." if it was only at 5 volts.

It appears I was looking at the wrong panel. I was looking at the one above the door that shows how full tanks are and thought “battery” meant the chassis battery. I realize now it was the house battery.

 

[Mark54]

It appears I was looking at the wrong panel. I was looking at the one above the door that shows how full tanks are and thought “battery” meant the chassis battery. I realize now it was the house battery.

Glad you got it going- just some notes...
1) Used 2018 RV should be checked by a mobile tech for loose connections. Even new Thor units are loose, and should be inspected thoroughly.

2) CaCo3, calcium carbonate, (active ingredient to Damp-rid) can be quite corrosive to electrical- suggest not using in winter months.
It's a salt and has similar effects as road and table salt on metal. Also quite conductive- so if a battery gets wet from it, can be drained. That includes battery cables at the Inverter/Converter (I/C) as well.
A lithium battery can have real problems from salt water- like an unstoppable fire.
- Inspect Inverter/converter for damage- might need to replace if corroded inside.
Cleanup using baking soda solution in water is one way to remove and neutralise salt.

3) If any lead-acid battery shows 5V = new battery most likely. Lithium may revive with charging, but might need a 13.6V supply to jump start the charging. Can do sometimes using the e-start switch. It doesn't take much to drain the chassis battery- leaving a light on will do it.
I once did that to myself in a car when I was a forester- parked, walked into the woods for 2-3 hrs, and came out to see my headlights still on!! I got in and turned lights off, waited a little, (battery can bounce back up after disconnect) and was lucky that it started after a slow growl of the starter!

4) Chassis battery (main engine one) might not charge when plugged into shoreline, (as in the Tellaro/Sequence models)- You may have to have a separate trickle charger on the chassis battery for 3+ days of storage. Mine is dead in 4 days. I added an onboard 2A charger for times when parked for 3+ days. If you see a triangular module that has "B.I.M." on it, you may be ok with chassis battery charging on shoreline power. It might be hidden or underneath the chassis, as it was on older class B models with AGM batteries systems.

Hope that helps- get to know the RV really well by opening compartments and inspecting for water and rodent damage too. Check all plumbing and electrical connections and inspect for 1/4" gaps that mice can go thru into coach. (They don't have collarbones, so they can squeeze thru small spaces!) Mice like to chew the soy-based wire casing used by many mfrs these days.

 

[PS89]

Couple of model-specific notes regarding possible issues Mark mentioned (I have the exact same MH and have been over it extensively since I got it):

1. On my coach, when Thor installed the cabling for the 2nd inverter, it wasn't properly secured to the chassis and the ground cable ended up laying on top of the driveshaft. I found that issue before it completely severed the wire. I also found that somewhere along the line post-manufacturing, the positive cable for that inverter had gotten moved from its 100A breaker high and in the back on the right and was instead directly connected to the positive battery terminal for the coach. I replaced a section of cable and relocated the cable back to its intended circuit breaker.

2. The inverter in question is mounted on the ledge of the slideout, several inches above the main floor. Unless the DampRid containers were also on that ledge, it's unlikely the inverter was exposed to it or the cleanup. I think you have a coincidence there.

3. Yep.

4. The chassis battery is SUPPOSED to charge from shore/generator power via the BIM160 but, since Thor seemed to wire them backwards at the factory, that doesn't seem to work very well unless corrected. The BIM on this MH is mounted at the very left rear of the battery compartment and is best accessed from underneath or by completely removing all the batteries. Note that removing all the batteries can open its own can of worms if proper precautions are not made for getting the cable connections back in the right places.

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

Glad you got it going- just some notes...
1) Used 2018 RV should be checked by a mobile tech for loose connections. Even new Thor units are loose, and should be inspected thoroughly.

2) CaCo3, calcium carbonate, (active ingredient to Damp-rid) can be quite corrosive to electrical- suggest not using in winter months.
It's a salt and has similar effects as road and table salt on metal. Also quite conductive- so if a battery gets wet from it, can be drained. That includes battery cables at the Inverter/Converter (I/C) as well.
A lithium battery can have real problems from salt water- like an unstoppable fire.
- Inspect Inverter/converter for damage- might need to replace if corroded inside.
Cleanup using baking soda solution in water is one way to remove and neutralise salt.

3) If any lead-acid battery shows 5V = new battery most likely. Lithium may revive with charging, but might need a 13.6V supply to jump start the charging. Can do sometimes using the e-start switch. It doesn't take much to drain the chassis battery- leaving a light on will do it.
I once did that to myself in a car when I was a forester- parked, walked into the woods for 2-3 hrs, and came out to see my headlights still on!! I got in and turned lights off, waited a little, (battery can bounce back up after disconnect) and was lucky that it started after a slow growl of the starter!

4) Chassis battery (main engine one) might not charge when plugged into shoreline, (as in the Tellaro/Sequence models)- You may have to have a separate trickle charger on the chassis battery for 3+ days of storage. Mine is dead in 4 days. I added an onboard 2A charger for times when parked for 3+ days. If you see a triangular module that has "B.I.M." on it, you may be ok with chassis battery charging on shoreline power. It might be hidden or underneath the chassis, as it was on older class B models with AGM batteries systems.

Hope that helps- get to know the RV really well by opening compartments and inspecting for water and rodent damage too. Check all plumbing and electrical connections and inspect for 1/4" gaps that mice can go thru into coach. (They don't have collarbones, so they can squeeze thru small spaces!) Mice like to chew the soy-based wire casing used by many mfrs these days.

Thank you so much for taking the time to give such detailed information! I truly appreciate it! The RV tech checked the other connections and they seem ok.

The calcium carbonate does not seem to have damaged the wiring…yet. But time will tell I suppose. Again

The RV tech recommended a new battery for the chassis, which we purchased. My husband gave the vehicle information at the auto parts store, but after wrestling the old battery out, we found the new battery was too big to fit in the pan. So, out it came and we put the old one back in. We made it home, and my husband is exchanging the new battery now. I can’t imagine a more inconvenient location (at least for my short arms and hubby’s bad shoulder) for the battery. Thank goodness we shouldn’t have to fuss with it very often!

For the chassis battery, we store the mh at home ands are plugged into 50A. This time, we stayed at a site with 30A service. This was a first for us …. I wonder if that has something to do with the chassis battery dying? It was dead by the 3rd day.

If I find small openings that mice can get through, do you suggest caulk? I also need to re-caulk around a couple of windows but it’s cold here right now (30’s -40’s) and I’m not sure if the caulk will cure. What are your thoughts?

Thank you again for your help!

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

Couple of model-specific notes regarding possible issues Mark mentioned (I have the exact same MH and have been over it extensively since I got it):

1. On my coach, when Thor installed the cabling for the 2nd inverter, it wasn't properly secured to the chassis and the ground cable ended up laying on top of the driveshaft. I found that issue before it completely severed the wire. I also found that somewhere along the line post-manufacturing, the positive cable for that inverter had gotten moved from its 100A breaker high and in the back on the right and was instead directly connected to the positive battery terminal for the coach. I replaced a section of cable and relocated the cable back to its intended circuit breaker.

2. The inverter in question is mounted on the ledge of the slideout, several inches above the main floor. Unless the DampRid containers were also on that ledge, it's unlikely the inverter was exposed to it or the cleanup. I think you have a coincidence there.

3. Yep.

4. The chassis battery is SUPPOSED to charge from shore/generator power via the BIM160 but, since Thor seemed to wire them backwards at the factory, that doesn't seem to work very well unless corrected. The BIM on this MH is mounted at the very left rear of the battery compartment and is best accessed from underneath or by completely removing all the batteries. Note that removing all the batteries can open its own can of worms if proper precautions are not made for getting the cable connections back in the right places.

Thanks PS!

1. I really need to learn about electricity and wiring…I’m beginning to suspect that electrical wiring (like algebra) is a tool of Satan.
2. The inverter in my MH is located in the side-out, but it is on the floor, under the 2nd drawer below the bedroom television. The spill happened in the closet while we were driving. When we stopped a few hours later we noticed the floor was wet. The fluid ran from the closet, through the drawers and doors of the closet and into the floor. That’s how the inverter got wet.
3. Hubby is out getting a new battery now, although I do wonder if the issue is that we were connected to 30A shore power instead on 50A, which we had done before and what it plugs into at home. ?
4. Thanks for this!

Thanks again for your help!

 

[ThePoshTrekker]

Correction… Hubby just told me we plug into 30A at home. But we had a GPS plugged into one of the ports on the dashboard, and he thinks that may have drained the battery over time even though it wasn’t turned on.

 

[Mark54]

Thank you so much for taking the time to give such detailed information! I truly appreciate it! The RV tech checked the other connections and they seem ok.

The calcium carbonate does not seem to have damaged the wiring…yet. But time will tell I suppose. Again

The RV tech recommended a new battery for the chassis, which we purchased. My husband gave the vehicle information at the auto parts store, but after wrestling the old battery out, we found the new battery was too big to fit in the pan. So, out it came and we put the old one back in. We made it home, and my husband is exchanging the new battery now. I can’t imagine a more inconvenient location (at least for my short arms and hubby’s bad shoulder) for the battery. Thank goodness we shouldn’t have to fuss with it very often!

For the chassis battery, we store the mh at home ands are plugged into 50A. This time, we stayed at a site with 30A service. This was a first for us …. I wonder if that has something to do with the chassis battery dying? It was dead by the 3rd day.

If I find small openings that mice can get through, do you suggest caulk? I also need to re-caulk around a couple of windows but it’s cold here right now (30’s -40’s) and I’m not sure if the caulk will cure. What are your thoughts?

Thank you again for your help!

Battery shop is clueless- see Ace's suggestion of a group 65. Costco and Walmart are better than most battery shops anyways.
30A only supplies one leg of the two poles a 50A service gives, so important to know what the single pole of a 30A will operate. (50A typically combines two poles of a service panel) It's possible the 30A had something to do with chassis battery dying. I suggest carrying a portable jumper battery, like the Noco Boost GB50: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MVY7K43/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Otherwise try to use 50A hookups when camping. Dead battery in 3 days is a sign of a stressed battery so have it checked annually, or before each trip!

As for mouse control- I use stainless scrub pads in larger holes, and can cover them with flex-seal spray to seal air infiltration. I also use Tomcat rodent resistant spray foam for smaller ones- has boric acid in it that they do not like- bitter taste!!
Look for evidence of mice as well- poops or urine stains, or chewed wires! I keep two electronic mice zappers inside, as well as an untrasonic repeller in my engine compartment, aimed at the firewall.
A mouse will just typically chew thru caulk, unless it's PU (polyurethane) that is very hard to chew, but not impossible- so play it safe. Oridnary steel wool NOT recommended as it will rust.
Caulk needs at least 50° to cure btw... same with flex-seal. So use scrub pads for now. Grocery stores have those in housewares dept., usually in pairs- can be cut with metal scissors, but I suggest stuffing what you can from inside, and leave the excess. Spray outer part with flex-seal when it's warm enough.

Another way to find holes is light up inside at night with flashlights in suspected areas, and look from outside. Also UV flashlight for urine trails that they use like stinky "breadcrumbs" for their buddies... I know mice. I caught over 100 in an old travel trailer the USFS stuck my timber crew in one time to save gas travelling to a timber unit in Idaho. It was their trailer now...

 

[16ACE27]

Correction… Hubby just told me we plug into 30A at home. But we had a GPS plugged into one of the ports on the dashboard, and he thinks that may have drained the battery over time even though it wasn’t turned on.

As PS89 said - when plugged into SP your chassis battery should be charging IF your house batteries are charging. That means the USE/STORE (Main Power) switch has to be switched to USE (ON) and the BIM/BIRD/Trombetta has to be working correctly. If you have an indication light by the switch, it is only an indication of the status of the battery disconnect if NOT plugged into SP (or running the generator). When plugged into SP that light will always be on regardless of the status of the switch. Don't let it fool you into thinking the house battery is connected to the converter for charging when it is not.

30 amp SP limits what you can run at the same time, but everything has 120 VAC available to it. So it is NOT the cause in any way of any batteries dying.

 

[Mark54]

Correction… Hubby just told me we plug into 30A at home. But we had a GPS plugged into one of the ports on the dashboard, and he thinks that may have drained the battery over time even though it wasn’t turned on.

Get a voltage tester and check chassis readout before plugging into 30A, then test after plugging in- should see a difference. Carry that tester with you too. I use a "VOM" that can read ohms, volts and amps. (Volt-Ohm-Millammeter) A GPS could drain just enough to get too low on SOC (state of charge) esp. if overnight...