Questions for you Lithium B-Class owners

[RSKDSK]

It seems as if having a generator in a B-class RV is getting harder and harder to find. I realize that there are some difference in Amp Hours / Watt hours, inverter size, solar capacity, but in general, I'd like to ask you Lithium system users:

1) Are you happy with your systems?

2) One of the bigger complaints I have heard is that the batteries really do not last very long when the AC is used, so are you happy with the output of the extra under the hood alternator?

3) How long does it take to charge the batteries in your coach?

4) It seems like 200-300 watts of solar is standard, is that really enough?

5) Lithium batteries do not preform well in cold weather (need heaters) and should never be completely drain (or past 10-20% remaining) ... are these a problem for you?

[fourthgear]

I have a 2022 Sanctuary 19P & I really don't have any experience so far , only had it a week or so , but it seems to work just fine , charges up with short drives & the , I believe , the 190 watt solar Panel also charges or keeps it full when sitting in the drive way . I do seem to lose about 10% over night , most likely because of monitor system in the RV .

Running the A/C for extended periods when camping , you will probably need to runt the Engine for a bit to charge the batteries if cloudy also . I will let you know , I live in florida &b sure it will get a work out .

On thing , no noise & my 3.0 Diesel is much quieter then a Generator for those near you .My monitor has a reading for time on the batteries , shows about 5 days .

[kamccormick]

Originally Posted by RSKDSK

It seems as if having a generator in a B-class RV is getting harder and harder to find. I realize that there are some difference in Amp Hours / Watt hours, inverter size, solar capacity, but in general, I'd like to ask you Lithium system users:



1) Are you happy with your systems?



2) One of the bigger complaints I have heard is that the batteries really do not last very long when the AC is used, so are you happy with the output of the extra under the hood alternator?



3) How long does it take to charge the batteries in your coach?



4) It seems like 200-300 watts of solar is standard, is that really enough?



5) Lithium batteries do not preform well in cold weather (need heaters) and should never be completely drain (or past 10-20% remaining) ... are these a problem for you?

We are very happy with our Lithium setup. We live in Southern California so usually have plenty of sun for solar without the extreme conditions needed for air. We’ve had other RVs and never really needed air. But I’m sure using the air with this system would not keep up the battery without shore power or the engine on. But with the generator version you can’t run the air at all without shore power or the generator. The plus side .. running the engine is a lot quieter than any generator I’ve used or heard. Plus it uses the diesel fuel and not the propane!! I’d be curious how fast the generator drains the propane with the air on ?

On a typical winter partly sunny day the solar is enough for us to be off grid for about 5 days. We turn on the engine to recharge. I expect it will do much better in the summer.
We keep our inverter off unless we want to use the micro. The inverter sucks down the battery. With the battery at 40%, we idled the engine (extra alternator) and were back above 90% in an hour.

When parked in the driveway, with main power off, the solar keeps the battery above 90%. Again.. this is Southern California … we rarely have many days in a row with no sun.

We have not had any experience with temperature lower than about 32 degrees. No problems at point.

[RSKDSK]

Thanks for the feedback!

I have a 2022 Sanctuary with the propane generator. I have been on a few camping trips so far and have used the AC many times for hours on end along with the heater, hot water, and gas stove top ... and I am still on the original propane fill from the dealership with over 3/8 of a tank so the propane generator does seem to be very efficient.
I think I would have preferred that the generator run off of the diesel tank.

Here is South FL, we get some really humid days and it would be unbearable to be camping without the AC.

I love the idea of being able to run the Diesel engine at idle as I think that would be quiter than the generator (however the generator is not that loud). From what I have ascertained, the lithium batteries can only run the AC for a few hours, so that would mean that if I want to leave the AC on all night, I would need to leave the engine idling all night ... that would be a concern for me. Do I have this correct?

Originally Posted by kamccormick

We are very happy with our Lithium setup. We live in Southern California so usually have plenty of sun for solar without the extreme conditions needed for air. We’ve had other RVs and never really needed air. But I’m sure using the air with this system would not keep up the battery without shore power or the engine on. But with the generator version you can’t run the air at all without shore power or the generator. The plus side .. running the engine is a lot quieter than any generator I’ve used or heard. Plus it uses the diesel fuel and not the propane!! I’d be curious how fast the generator drains the propane with the air on ?

On a typical winter partly sunny day the solar is enough for us to be off grid for about 5 days. We turn on the engine to recharge. I expect it will do much better in the summer.
We keep our inverter off unless we want to use the micro. The inverter sucks down the battery. With the battery at 40%, we idled the engine (extra alternator) and were back above 90% in an hour.

When parked in the driveway, with main power off, the solar keeps the battery above 90%. Again.. this is Southern California … we rarely have many days in a row with no sun.

We have not had any experience with temperature lower than about 32 degrees. No problems at point.

[kamccormick]

Originally Posted by RSKDSK

Thanks for the feedback!



I have a 2022 Sanctuary with the propane generator. I have been on a few camping trips so far and have used the AC many times for hours on end along with the heater, hot water, and gas stove top ... and I am still on the original propane fill from the dealership with over 3/8 of a tank so the propane generator does seem to be very efficient.

I think I would have preferred that the generator run off of the diesel tank.



Here is South FL, we get some really humid days and it would be unbearable to be camping without the AC.



I love the idea of being able to run the Diesel engine at idle as I think that would be quiter than the generator (however the generator is not that loud). From what I have ascertained, the lithium batteries can only run the AC for a few hours, so that would mean that if I want to leave the AC on all night, I would need to leave the engine idling all night ... that would be a concern for me. Do I have this correct?

That is correct. I’m curious if you camp in established campgrounds? Every campground I’ve been in has established generator hours so you would not be able to sleep with the generator/air on on all night.

In that situation the lithium battery would provide some amount of air. I’d also be curious if other owners have used the air and have better data on how long the battery can support the air. It could very well support air at night with the need to idle the engine the following day to recharge.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by kamccormick

....cut....

In that situation the lithium battery would provide some amount of air. I’d also be curious if other owners have used the air and have better data on how long the battery can support the air. It could very well support air at night with the need to idle the engine the following day to recharge.

Did you watch the hour-long video Jamie recently posted on Thor Class Bs?

Anyway, the Thor representative in charge of Class Bs states that a rough estimate is one hour of air conditioning per 100 Ah of battery capacity. I’ll add that is based on 12V battery bank since Amp-hours at other voltages is very different. Just saying Amp-hours is not a unit of energy. We should be using kWh instead, but that’s a different subject.

Since 100 Ah X 12.8 Volts is very close to the amount of energy an 11,000 BTU/hr Power Saver air conditioner would use including inverter inefficiencies, his rough estimate should give good results during the day when A/C is working at rated capacity.

Through the night, most A/C will cycle on and off, so will run longer time per 100 Ah of battery capacity. In my experience, a van can be cooled at night with less than 5,000 BTU/hr, so typical van rooftop A/C should stay on no more than 50% of time (duty cycle).

For what it’s worth, some of the newest vans use DC powered air conditioners that don’t require an inverter, and can also operate steady at lower cooling capacity, making them more energy efficient. When comparing data or asking owners questions, make sure it’s apples to apples.

[htsai14752]

Originally Posted by kamccormick

That is correct. I’m curious if you camp in established campgrounds? Every campground I’ve been in has established generator hours so you would not be able to sleep with the generator/air on on all night.

In that situation the lithium battery would provide some amount of air. I’d also be curious if other owners have used the air and have better data on how long the battery can support the air. It could very well support air at night with the need to idle the engine the following day to recharge.

The AC runs for about an hr per 100ah. Since it isn’t good to run the lithium under 20% that means you have about 3 hrs of straight AC. However the cabin is small so I don’t think you need to run the AC straight. it would be intermittent 10 to 15 minutes.

[fourthgear]

I think is being written here about AH use is the use of the A/C unit running continuously , which it would not do at night or even in the day time if the camper was closed up like your house , unit would cycle on & off , sure opening & closing doors would make a difference , just like your house . I will have to look at the manual to see what voltage the unit runs on , but would bet its 115/120 volts .

I'm retired HVAC/R & the A/C unit seems to be very efficient & AH's may be less then we think , when it gets hot here again ( seems we have a cold front here right now & its in the 70's during the day , but by next week it will be back in the 80's & I will run a test & see how it works on the LI batteries .

[kamccormick]

Originally Posted by fourthgear

I think is being written here about AH use is the use of the A/C unit running continuously , which it would not do at night or even in the day time if the camper was closed up like your house , unit would cycle on & off , sure opening & closing doors would make a difference , just like your house . I will have to look at the manual to see what voltage the unit runs on , but would bet its 115/120 volts .

I'm retired HVAC/R & the A/C unit seems to be very efficient & AH's may be less then we think , when it gets hot here again ( seems we have a cold front here right now & its in the 70's during the day , but by next week it will be back in the 80's & I will run a test & see how it works on the LI batteries .

Thanks, I’m looking forward to your test results. Although we’ve rarely used air in our other RVs it would be good to know roughly what to expect.

[fourthgear]

I'm curious myself , we need to know these things before going out Boon-docking.Will also test it over night , with out Solar availability .

[CY20L]

HI, how do I find Jamies video you mentioned? Ty

[dg0603]

Hey there,

Not sure if you might be interested in this issue I have with my 200Ah system. I posted the issue here:

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f4...tml#post340225

My system does not have the yellow disconnect switches.

[Panfam5]

Thx for sharing, we’ve had our Tallero a month and have same experience as
Kamcormick. Learned the hard way about inverters battery appetite. Left RV fir a few dys and cut off house power, but not inverter and batteries shut off.

[dg0603]

When you say "shut off" you mean they drained and went dead?

[Panfam5]

Do you have diesel or gasoline? When batteries got down to 0% was very hard driving to even get to 4%, had to go to rv park and plug in

[Panfam5]

Yep, went dead..had to reset yellow relays on Lithium batteries, and start it up to try to charge.

[Panfam5]

Apparently batteries have safety features that shuts them down if they get close to draining completely, the relays pop out.

[dg0603]

We have gasoline and the Reliable 200Ah system.

Yes your experience is exactly what I mean. On my unit, even with the inverter OFF, there is still a small draw on the batteries. Left alone and parked, the batteries will eventually go down to zero like yours did.

Unless there's a real way to completely disconnect the Lithium batteries from all current drawing items.

The more advanced Lithium systems have those 2 yellow manual disconnect switches but my unit does not.

[Panfam5]

Do you have issues getting up to 80mph and winds? We have to drop to 70-75 to feel comfortable on highway.

[dg0603]

We stay around 70 max. Higher can be less enjoyable to drive