Disappointed with interior workmanship

[carlgorski]

Originally Posted by TheoLucas

We just returned from our first overnight trip in our 2017 Quantum GR22. This is my first purchase of a brand new RV. While we are happy with most aspects of the coach--the fine cabinetry, the faux wood plank floor, the awning and the slide out--we are very disappointed with the interior workmanship. You would think that a coach listed at $99,000 would have quality interior work, but in fact much of it is careless and sloppy. For example, holes and tears in the dinette vinyl, loose trim under the dinette seats, dinette seats and backs with taped Velcro that has already come unglued, wrinkled and crooked wallpaper trim, a crooked shower slide curtain, a freezer that drips water and ices up, glue and tape marks on the bathroom sink top, no caulking or silicone around the walls of the bathroom, a rattling microwave while the coach is under way, and horribly loud road noise while driving (so loud I can't hear the radio). Where is Thor's pride in workmanship? Tell me, am I expecting too much? Or is this normal for a new Thor?

I also just got a GR22. Small trim items like you had I just fixed myself. I found a fix for the noise. I bought dynamat on Amazon and installed in doghouse and on the front van floors under the existing floor liner. I also sprayed undercoating in front wheel wells. It is a night and day difference. We can talk now without yelling.

[Pete'sMH]

Actually, I think you might be expecting too much. Ordinary care in assembly certainly does seem like a reasonable expectation but custom engineering and things like additional sound deadening materials just aren't going to happen. When you consider all that you are buying (a whole house!) for less than the price of a nice pickup truck you have to know that there's not much room for extras. Thor, in particular, has chosen to represent the low to mid section of the RV market so there you are. Even still, I'm betting that once you get these bugs worked out you will get many years of good service from your Quantum.

[Bob Denman]

I can agree with this...
They provide the basics, and you "flavor it to taste".

[Laco]

Unfortunately, what you describe is pretty much the standard (very low) for virtually all RV manufactures. That is true for 'high end' coaches too, including the multimillion dollar Prevost. Because salaries are so low for the assembly line workers, there is a huge turnover, so very few ever really get to where they actually know what they are doing, and because most are short-timers, they don't care. The manufactures, have it penciled out, so it is financially to their benefit to pay the dealer to straighten out what you the new owner manages to find.

[carlgorski]

Originally Posted by Laco

Unfortunately, what you describe is pretty much the standard (very low) for virtually all RV manufactures. That is true for 'high end' coaches too, including the multimillion dollar Prevost. Because salaries are so low for the assembly line workers, there is a huge turnover, so very few ever really get to where they actually know what they are doing, and because most are short-timers, they don't care. The manufactures, have it penciled out, so it is financially to their benefit to pay the dealer to straighten out what you the new owner manages to find.

It seems they spend a fortune on warranty issues. Why not pay more to retain good workers. I see it as a win / win situation. Make customers satisfied and save money on warranty repairs.

[Travelin' Texans]

Apparently the dealers don't pay their help either as most are so far behind it months & months to just get minor work attempted, notice I said attempted. If you find a good dealer or repair facility, stick with it.

[carlgorski]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

Apparently the dealers don't pay their help either as most are so far behind it months & months to just get minor work attempted, notice I said attempted. If you find a good dealer or repair facility, stick with it.

I just dropped my GR22 off for some warranty work. Touchscreen on radio bad from day 1. Thor knew of this. They said they discovered bad batch of radios after 200 units went out. Ok not Thors fault however who puts a touch screen in and doesn't test it let alone 200. Also if you knew they should have sent replacements out to dealers. Just saying.

[Laco]

Originally Posted by carlgorski

It seems they spend a fortune on warranty issues. Why not pay more to retain good workers. I see it as a win / win situation. Make customers satisfied and save money on warranty repairs.

You would have to talk to their bean counters, It doesn't pencil out for them to pay a living wage, when they can essentially pay dealers for piece work, to fix what wasn't assembled correctly in the first place.

[MTN RV]

Had the microwave rattle issue as well see this post...
http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f8/...lity-9229.html

[blw2]

Originally Posted by Laco

The manufactures, have it penciled out, so it is financially to their benefit to pay the dealer to straighten out what you the new owner manages to find.

I think that is 50% of the plan...and I do think that it is a planned business model to produce substandard work....and to promote a warranty repair network that is slow and a pain in the neck....

The other 50% of the equation that I feel confident they bank on is that we owners will end up just fixing a lot of the things ourselves and eat the cost so they or their dealers don't have to.

So
they can produce a low quality finish
knowing that some of it will be fixed by dealership network....but not all.

The alternative would be a higher cost to produce and a higher sales price to match.... and likely some reduction in sales volume because of it.

[jfreitas]

Originally Posted by blw2

I think that is 50% of the plan...and I do think that it is a planned business model to produce substandard work....and to promote a warranty repair network that is slow and a pain in the neck....

The other 50% of the equation that I feel confident they bank on is that we owners will end up just fixing a lot of the things ourselves and eat the cost so they or their dealers don't have to.

So
they can produce a low quality finish
knowing that some of it will be fixed by dealership network....but not all.

The alternative would be a higher cost to produce and a higher sales price to match.... and likely some reduction in sales volume because of it.

The second part of that plan is to tie up your coach for 6 to 8 weeks each time you take it in for warranty work, thus running the clock out on your warranty time.

[Pete'sMH]

Man, you guys are cynical! I think they'd love to have fewer issues from every perspective if they could afford to slow the production process down.

[Laco]

Its really not a conspiracy by RV manufactures against the consumer. It is all about dollars and nothing more. They want to produce as many units as possible, paying as little as possible to do so. They, the manufactures, cost out an annual dollar amount they will spend, paying dealers to correct manufacture defects. The amount paid to dealers to fix and repair is fewer dollars then they would spend to raise salaries for the line workers, and provide more training for them. As long as it costs less to pay dealers to fix problems, then it would to build it right in the first place, you will see no change in QA. Its really that simple.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

Man, you guys are cynical! I think they'd love to have fewer issues from every perspective if they could afford to slow the production process down.

And I thought that folks complaining about their motorcycles were bad...

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by Laco

Its really not a conspiracy by RV manufactures against the consumer. It is all about dollars and nothing more. They want to produce as many units as possible, paying as little as possible to do so. They, the manufactures, cost out an annual dollar amount they will spend, paying dealers to correct manufacture defects. The amount paid to dealers to fix and repair is fewer dollars then they would spend to raise salaries for the line workers, and provide more training for them. As long as it costs less to pay dealers to fix problems, then it would to build it right in the first place, you will see no change in QA. Its really that simple.

Only partially that simple. Yes, it's partially dollars and sense on the warranty work vs. "doing it right" but it's also workforce problems, which is not fully fixed by just paying more, as well the fact that by and large these are entry level coaches.

Even the better and higher end coaches have issue. My brother in law has had to taken their Tiffen to Red Bay 6, 8 or maybe more times and at least to their credit, they are still fixing things four years out of warranty, because there were so many problems. Some are so bad, they can't be fixed, such as insulation that was never put in and the repair would be so destructive that they are afraid to have it done.

They've constantly battled diesel fumes inside while driving (multiple trips they've attempted to fix it).

Now, insult to injury (not a Tiffen problem), they just blew head gaskets and warped heads on the Cummins after only 70k miles, which is considered very low mileage for a Cummins diesel failure and it happens six months out of the engine warranty.

It's an industry wide problem, unfortunately, especially with the low-priced, entry level models.

[STEVEVILL38GT]

Originally Posted by TheoLucas

We just returned from our first overnight trip in our 2017 Quantum GR22. This is my first purchase of a brand new RV. While we are happy with most aspects of the coach--the fine cabinetry, the faux wood plank floor, the awning and the slide out--we are very disappointed with the interior workmanship. You would think that a coach listed at $99,000 would have quality interior work, but in fact much of it is careless and sloppy. For example, holes and tears in the dinette vinyl, loose trim under the dinette seats, dinette seats and backs with taped Velcro that has already come unglued, wrinkled and crooked wallpaper trim, a crooked shower slide curtain, a freezer that drips water and ices up, glue and tape marks on the bathroom sink top, no caulking or silicone around the walls of the bathroom, a rattling microwave while the coach is under way, and horribly loud road noise while driving (so loud I can't hear the radio). Where is Thor's pride in workmanship? Tell me, am I expecting too much? Or is this normal for a new Thor?

I spoke to a man who was on his 13th RV. The factories are to close together in ID. They fire one idiot, he gets hired at the next factory. Makes sense to me. This is my 3rd Thor and yes quality issues are many. If you think quality of the cabinets is bad, I agree, wait to you start looking around. Screws in thermostats where fuses supposed to be. free wire runs, etc. But the reason why I bought the second one I have, I was impressed by the customer service. They were knowing and helped me out of a jam. Which was caused by them anyway, but on the road they were lifesaving.

[Nursx2]

Thor and Quality workmanship - like East and West - never the twain shall meet!!!!

Originally Posted by TheoLucas

We just returned from our first overnight trip in our 2017 Quantum GR22. This is my first purchase of a brand new RV. While we are happy with most aspects of the coach--the fine cabinetry, the faux wood plank floor, the awning and the slide out--we are very disappointed with the interior workmanship. You would think that a coach listed at $99,000 would have quality interior work, but in fact much of it is careless and sloppy. For example, holes and tears in the dinette vinyl, loose trim under the dinette seats, dinette seats and backs with taped Velcro that has already come unglued, wrinkled and crooked wallpaper trim, a crooked shower slide curtain, a freezer that drips water and ices up, glue and tape marks on the bathroom sink top, no caulking or silicone around the walls of the bathroom, a rattling microwave while the coach is under way, and horribly loud road noise while driving (so loud I can't hear the radio). Where is Thor's pride in workmanship? Tell me, am I expecting too much? Or is this normal for a new Thor?

[Bob Denman]

Devil's advocate here. So if you hate them so much: why buy one?
Stay at a hotel, and eat at restaurants. The lack of aggravation must be worth something to you.

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Devil's advocate here. So if you hate them so much: why buy one?
Stay at a hotel, and eat at restaurants. The lack of aggravation must be worth something to you.

My thoughts as well. So much angst! This is a recreational activity. It makes me happy even with ongoing repairs and adjustments. Thor is what it is and the machines are what they are.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

My thoughts as well. So much angst! This is a recreational activity. It makes me happy even with ongoing repairs and adjustments. Thor is what it is and the machines are what they are.

We must have gone to different High Schools together!
If it's not fun: why subject yourself and your family to it?