What's your thoughts on the Scope 18M?

[Chateau_Nomad]

If you want a customized B van, and are willing to pay... check out Drifter Vans in Michigan. Sorry Thor... But not really competition per se. These are complete customized builds starting from a template, then customized according to customer requirements. Of course all for a price... but drop dead gorgeous nonetheless!

[Pete'sMH]

I don’t have a Scope so can’t really say. My Winnebago class B also had its generator underneath and it was rather inconvenient. But this 70 year old fellow was able to change the oil and do other work on it. If you are unable you probably can find a neighborhood Motörhead who’ll crawl under there for you. I could change the oil in 15 minutes for under $6.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Dauntless

We've had many RVs in our life. Truck Camper, Pop Up,5th Wheel a C and a Trailer. They all have issues. Not one of them didn't need a repair while we owned them or have something about it that wasn't right. New or used, didn't matter. Every inch of space inside the walls of a Class B are used and components are packed tight and you can't sit at a dealer tearing the panels off new RVs reading schematics before you buy one, they aren't going to let you do that. Always a surprise in there someplace! When it's off warranty to be sure ...I'm making some adjustments inside those walls though.

Originally Posted by Dauntless

We are very discouraged today with our Class B

The generator in the 2022 Scope/Rize is essentially buried in a case under the chassis of the RV and nearly impossible for the average person who isn't very mechanical to maintain at home.

The RV has to be put on a lift to access it. Minimum $100 before they do a thing to it. The encasing has to be opened. Another $100 in labor. Whatever they have to fix, Cummins charges $200.00 an hour. They have to put it back in the casing and that's another $100.00

Before you buy the RV understand clearly unless you are a mechanic, you will need to pay about $500.00 to even get the oil checked on the generator, let alone changed. Generators have to be maintained and this is a very very serious problem.

Camping World did the recall repair on the gas line on our Onan 2800 and the repair failed badly. The generator broke down 200 miles from home. (Gasoline pouring out of the generator) The tech hadn't clamped the ends of the recalled line and broke another hose in it in the process.

We got it back after a Cummins commercial generator repair shop repaired it. It ran beautifully but when we went to test the generator, it ran but wouldn't power the coach. There's a breaker on this buried generator that trips itself from a surge.

No Air, No microwave, no 110. Again... the generator is nearly impossible to access to reset this breaker, it has to go on a lift or the back of the RV has to be rolled up on some kind of high support. It's not a safe alternative to a lift either.

We called Cummins, they are going to reset this switch for us in a couple days but having had other RV's and knowing about breakers - they do pop and they do need to be reset occasionally. Your RV has to have easy access to your generator or the genset becomes useless.

I've heard every explanation and excuse that can be had from Thor, Cummins, Camping World. Everything from "You can still use it, plug it into shore power and don't use the generator" to...."You can always have the generator removed".

What? Remove it? Don't use it? Are they kidding?

The whole point of owning a Class B motor home is having a generator so you don't have to pay for campsites, make your own coffee in rest stops, so you can go to the bathroom and not get out of your motorhome in unsafe places. Without a viable generator you can't use this thing as it was intended. It's a terrible design and Thor needs to do something about this.

How is this 120K Motorhome any different than a conversion van or a pop-up camper if I can't generate my own power or the cost of generating my own power is $100.00 every time I trip a breaker?

I can't change what's happened but I can warn others.

It's been in the shop more than we've used it and the realization of this generator issue has me wanting to sell it.

Owned many RVs before but didn't notice the location of the generator before you bought this RV?

This is not the first RV tha has the generator "centerline" and not as easily accessible as an outboard generator. As you said before, everything in an RV is a compromise. Did you consciously accept the compromise of this generator's location when you bought the RV?

[Mark54]

Originally Posted by Slick Willy

One of the things that is holding me back from purchasing this 18M is that I am worried about the build quality.
I think all them goodies the Thor has that the Winny does not such as the generator, shower awning and the couch that converts into a bed will break.

Lots of folks have been warning me to stay away from Thor. I have no experience on the mater other than the bed on the 18m arrived at the dealer broken and that was not a good first impression.

Though, other than that couch bed thing, it looked pretty sweat!

Unless you are WELL versed in electric, plumbing and coachwork, stay away from Thor. Also they are NOT insulated at all- (I don't call scraps of undersized leftover fibreglass "insulation")
I got my Tellaro 20L after having a 20AT, with the full expectation of fixing as soon as I got it home (learned a lot from the AT)- I have spent an extra $30k on mods/fixes that no untrained person should ever attempt, like moving all the electrics up from underneath to inside.

Also I HATE generators- nothing more than a lawn mower engine (poorly made one at that) that is difficult to service being way underneath like the class B Thors all are- I have the Balmar under-hood generator instead- a 170A alternator on the chassis engine. Starts every time, and 1/40th the emissions as it uses the van's emission control system. I can get away with using after hours as it is also very quiet.


Thor's QC is non-existent- stuff fell off inside just driving off the dealer's lot! Do not fall for the $10k extended service plan either! I told them no, and they warned me my work would not be 'as good'. Uh-huh.

Coachmen is a far better choice- they actually ARE insulated. Good luck!

[Rampro]

Having owned our Rize for the last year and a half I concur that if you are not handy or like to improve on the dismal quality that Thor injects into their build then look for another manufacturer. That being said I liked the floor plan and the overall top quality of the build components. Truma, Invitrigo, domestic, etc. are all great products in this build except for the sub par installations.

The shower floor has a 1/8” to 3/16” void until the pan would flex and hit the subfloor. I solved this by taking scraps from luxury vinyl tile flooring I had left over and removed the Thetford toilet and slid the flooring between the subfloor and shower pan. This solved the flexing which eventually would have ended up cracking the pan.

I also just finished my latest endeavor by upgrading my whole electrical system. The AGMs are inadequate in my opinion if you want to boondocks and not run the generator. I originally bought two Lithium SOK batteries with low temp cut off and installed them in place of the AGMs. This necessitated installing a Li ion B2B. Also the Go Power is a joke as the batteries would never fully charge. So going down the rabbit hole I put in a Victorian MPPT Charge Controller and another 200 watt solar panel fora total of 390 watts. Also I upgraded the 1KW inverter when I first bought it with a Renogy 2KW inverter.

Having used this for the last four months this is the way it should have come from Thor, although as we know it would have added probably another 10 thousand.

I did not like having the batteries under the coach so I spent a week manipulating the Truma duct work, cutting off the sewer hose arm under the couch and trying to fit both SOK batteries, my B2B, and all of the wiring in that space. Well it can be done! Also by removing the batteries I was able to remove the center battery box, cut off 90%, 10% left over supports the generator and now I can service the generator with ease. I also installed a 12volt water circulator so there is instant hot water at the shower.

Since I don’t count my labor all in with better 1/0 wiring, a Victron shunt and other miscellaneous upgrades I’m into this for roughly $3500 to $4000. If Thor would have done this it I’m sure it would have added $15000.

Also having had most of the coach apart I’ve been able to fix many problems that could have gone south fast, as in loose water fitting, wires chafing and not clamped, etc.

So my point is for what I paid for this last year I could not have bought anything close with the capabilities this now possesses.

[RizeMaster]

Awesome, thank you for sharing your adventures. I would pretty much do the same if I were as handy as you. Fitting the batteries inside the sofa along with the Truma is brilliant! I would love to see a picture. I might do just that with a single battery and less overall capacity as we don't seem to need that much (don't use inverter, etc). For now, the two AGM batteries are fine for boon-docking, once they start losing their capacity I will sort of follow in your footsteps, with a more gradual revamping of the electrical system.

Doing all of that you sure learn a lot about the vehicle! The wiring done by Thor is scary in parts. There were bare wires behind the wardrobe, where the water filter is, wtf. However, I do like the floor-plan too, and locating a lot of stuff underneath the vehicles opens up space inside and allows for relatively lots of storage for an 18ft camper.

[Dauntless]

Originally Posted by Rampro

Having owned our Rize for the last year and a half I concur that if you are not handy or like to improve on the dismal quality that Thor injects into their build then look for another manufacturer. That being said I liked the floor plan and the overall top quality of the build components. Truma, Invitrigo, domestic, etc. are all great products in this build except for the sub par installations.

The shower floor has a 1/8” to 3/16” void until the pan would flex and hit the subfloor. I solved this by taking scraps from luxury vinyl tile flooring I had left over and removed the Thetford toilet and slid the flooring between the subfloor and shower pan. This solved the flexing which eventually would have ended up cracking the pan.

I also just finished my latest endeavor by upgrading my whole electrical system. The AGMs are inadequate in my opinion if you want to boondocks and not run the generator. I originally bought two Lithium SOK batteries with low temp cut off and installed them in place of the AGMs. This necessitated installing a Li ion B2B. Also the Go Power is a joke as the batteries would never fully charge. So going down the rabbit hole I put in a Victorian MPPT Charge Controller and another 200 watt solar panel fora total of 390 watts. Also I upgraded the 1KW inverter when I first bought it with a Renogy 2KW inverter.

Having used this for the last four months this is the way it should have come from Thor, although as we know it would have added probably another 10 thousand.

I did not like having the batteries under the coach so I spent a week manipulating the Truma duct work, cutting off the sewer hose arm under the couch and trying to fit both SOK batteries, my B2B, and all of the wiring in that space. Well it can be done! Also by removing the batteries I was able to remove the center battery box, cut off 90%, 10% left over supports the generator and now I can service the generator with ease. I also installed a 12volt water circulator so there is instant hot water at the shower.

Since I don’t count my labor all in with better 1/0 wiring, a Victron shunt and other miscellaneous upgrades I’m into this for roughly $3500 to $4000. If Thor would have done this it I’m sure it would have added $15000.

Also having had most of the coach apart I’ve been able to fix many problems that could have gone south fast, as in loose water fitting, wires chafing and not clamped, etc.

So my point is for what I paid for this last year I could not have bought anything close with the capabilities this now possesses.

Wow!! What a bunch of great ideas! Moving the batteries is something I will discuss with the spouse. We are not handy, we would have to pay a conversion van person but I think I like the thought of that a lot!!!

Cummins people are angels. Thor is helpful when you call ...yes some of these components are top notch fixtures for sure. I hold out hope but too...its been a frustrating ride getting thse recalls fixed.

You are an inspiration!

[Dauntless]

We put a swing arm Yakima cargo carrier on the back and wow did that make a difference in interior comfort. They arent cheap but they are very sturdy and look great on the vehicle.

[Dauntless]

Yep, yep, yep, yep and yep.

[MCP]

Originally Posted by Dauntless

We put a swing arm Yakima cargo carrier on the back and wow did that make a difference in interior comfort. They arent cheap but they are very sturdy and look great on the vehicle.

FWIW, another storage option. Stowaway2 on swingaway frame with 2 Valterra sewer tubes attached.

[MCP]

Originally Posted by MCP

FWIW, another storage option. Stowaway2 on swingaway frame with 2 Valterra sewer tubes attached.

Oops here’s photos

[Rampro]

Originally Posted by rizemaster

awesome, thank you for sharing your adventures. I would pretty much do the same if i were as handy as you. Fitting the batteries inside the sofa along with the truma is brilliant! I would love to see a picture. I might do just that with a single battery and less overall capacity as we don't seem to need that much (don't use inverter, etc). For now, the two agm batteries are fine for boon-docking, once they start losing their capacity i will sort of follow in your footsteps, with a more gradual revamping of the electrical system.

Doing all of that you sure learn a lot about the vehicle! The wiring done by thor is scary in parts. There were bare wires behind the wardrobe, where the water filter is, wtf. However, i do like the floor-plan too, and locating a lot of stuff underneath the vehicles opens up space inside and allows for relatively lots of storage for an 18ft camper.

If I was to do this again I think I would use the Li Time mini 100 amp hour, they would fit with minimal rework.

[RizeMaster]

This is tight... I am in awe. Well done, and thank you for the image! Must have been an extraordinary amount of re-routing of Truma hoses and outlets, but well worth it to keep the batteries in a protected environment.

[Rampro]

It was only possible by elevating the batteries on a platform thanks to Thors wonderful job of routing wires. I routed two of the heater hoses under the platform and the third in the picture was routed on top.

[Mark54]

Originally Posted by Rampro

It was only possible by elevating the batteries on a platform thanks to Thors wonderful job of routing wires. I routed two of the heater hoses under the platform and the third in the picture was routed on top.

I'd keep an eye on the temps inside there- Truma and heat ducts are right there, and might be warm- I'd set a temp minder sender in there to monitor the temps for awhile, esp. when charging. Not much room for air in there to help cool down. I may have to add louvres and fan for my new battery compartment in my 20L- so far not very warm, but B- cable to shunt, does get warm when charging- mostly in the electrical compartment.

[Mark54]

Originally Posted by MCP

Attachment 43243
Attachment 43244
Oops here’s photos

I Have used a Stowaway2 on my Rialta, but did not like the swing-away latch- hard to reach.

So on my 20L, I added a Yakima Exo swing-away, Landed gear spare carrier, shortened Valco sewer tube, and a gorilla box on the bike rack.

I had to re-install the bike rack, b/s TMC blew off the part where you use adhesive... all scratched up underneath, so I used Sikaflex 252 as it says to IN THE MANUAL. Geez, what a bunch of maroons.


Seen here with my new rear shower setup privacy curtain. I'll add a 96" hose to the shower control, and have a 2x2 pad to stand on. I did replace the side sewer storage with a hot-cold spray away mixer, but this is better- no tent or 'wall-up' needed. I can use that for dishes if needed...
The white beehive thing is a weather station sensor.

[vpcamper52]

Thank you for posting your review… I am currently in the market looking to trade in my 98D190P for a used Thor Scope so your review was very helpful! I am 5’4” but I like a super comfortable bed at night…so your review gives me definitely something to consider…

[Slick Willy]

Thanks for all the info and advice. I ended up buying the 18G instead of the 18M.

[WhatnxtRV]

We do not use the bike rack so we went with an outdoor travel bag with a pvc frame (cold frame for plants). Carries all of the chairs, blocks, table and other stuff that would have been inside the RV. Can still open the door. The bag can be rolled-up and the pvc frame taken apart. Less than $60.

[LowOnCash]

Dauntless Hello - I feel your frustrations - re-setting the breaker is not going to cure your problem. More than likely your generator is fine especially if Cummins worked on it. More than likely, what's happening is you are simply exceeding the amperage of the gen breaker, so it just opens up.

You'll need to "Power-Shed" your RV manually. If you're running the AC then you should not run say a cook-top or use a hair dryer. A good tip to help prevent tripping is to flip off your breaker for charging the house battery before starting the AC. this will leave extra room for the high start current.

Not sure which charger you have, but even a small
inverter/chargers can charge batteries at 50-100 amps, this takes a good chunk of power from the genny and leaves little wattage left for power hungry AC's.

Keep us posted!

Ride Safe - Mike