What's your thoughts on the Scope 18M?

Slick Willy · 04-03-2023, 11:55 PM

I looked at one over the weekend and like most of what I saw.
For the price, its not bad at all. Had a few concerns though.

That bed... it is very hard and because it doubles as your sofa and dinette you dont really want to leave it in "bed mode", so a topper is out.
Normally I would just say to put a topper on it but there is no place to store the topper.
would pay extra if they offered a better bed and doubt it would be easy to put in something different. Also, the bed was of poor quality. was falling apart brand new.

I am also considering a Winnebago pocket because it is just as small and has a murphy bed with tons of storage. Yet it lacks so many things the Scope has.

The Gritz Carlton · 04-04-2023, 01:53 PM

Everything about RV's are a sacrifice. Even a 40' DP has its drawbacks where use of space is concerned. An 18' van conversion is the pinnacle of this sacrifice. There's tons of floorplans by many manufacturers. If you have to start modifying the layout to fit your needs even before you buy it, it doesn't sound like the right choice. Things will only go downhill after that.

Scubawise · 04-04-2023, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Everything about RV's are a sacrifice. Even a 40' DP has its drawbacks where use of space is concerned. An 18' van conversion is the pinnacle of this sacrifice. There's tons of floorplans by many manufacturers. If you have to start modifying the layout to fit your needs even before you buy it, it doesn't sound like the right choice. Things will only go downhill after that.

Excellent observation and 100% correct.

RizeMaster · 04-04-2023, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick Willy

I looked at one over the weekend and like most of what I saw.
For the price, its not bad at all. Had a few concerns though.

That bed... it is very hard and because it doubles as your sofa and dinette you dont really want to leave it in "bed mode", so a topper is out.
Normally I would just say to put a topper on it but there is no place to store the topper.
would pay extra if they offered a better bed and doubt it would be easy to put in something different. Also, the bed was of poor quality. was falling apart brand new.

I am also considering a Winnebago pocket because it is just as small and has a murphy bed with tons of storage. Yet it lacks so many things the Scope has.

I have the Rize which is the same as the Scope, and like it very much.

Agree with the bed/sofa being a bit on the hard side for sleeping, I don't mind, but my wife was complaining loudly. So I purchased one of those air pads (this one is really nice, I got it at some close-out for about 30% of that price though) and that really improves things, both on the softness and insulation side (the sponges can get a bit cold).

No issues with the bed falling apart, but I can see how some of the screws need some tightening or something. I put in a carpet/runner, and pulling out the bed can be a bit fiddly due to the tiny rollers on the bottom, but it's not a big deal really.

I am 6.2 and need to scoot the driver seat forward a bit to have enough space (when I camp on my own), but of course I could pull out the bed and let my feet hang over. In other words, if you are 6.5 or so it's something to explore first.

We store all our bed stuffs (for 3 peeps, teen is sleeping across the front seats) in the large wardrobe in the back.

All that said, I love the floor plan, which even with the short length van offers bath/shower/toilet and some amazingly large storage space. Of course can't be compared to a 40ft but then you just take a bunch more stuff along that may not be necessary. Compared to the Pocket... well. That one looks more like one of those VW campers.

Slick Willy · 04-04-2023, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Everything about RV's are a sacrifice. Even a 40' DP has its drawbacks where use of space is concerned. An 18' van conversion is the pinnacle of this sacrifice. There's tons of floorplans by many manufacturers. If you have to start modifying the layout to fit your needs even before you buy it, it doesn't sound like the right choice. Things will only go downhill after that.

Sounds like very good advice

Slick Willy · 04-06-2023, 08:33 PM

One of the things that is holding me back from purchasing this 18M is that I am worried about the build quality.
I think all them goodies the Thor has that the Winny does not such as the generator, shower awning and the couch that converts into a bed will break.

Lots of folks have been warning me to stay away from Thor. I have no experience on the mater other than the bed on the 18m arrived at the dealer broken and that was not a good first impression.

Though, other than that couch bed thing, it looked pretty sweat!

RizeMaster · 04-08-2023, 01:26 AM

If money isn't an issue, by all means, go with a "higher spec" Sprinter based camper which perhaps is, along with the price tag, assembled more carefully, with better components.

On the other hand, if you trust yourself to do some basic handiwork (kinda like a home owner usually does), know just a few basics of electricity, plumbing, and wood working, you can invest some time to fix things that may need to be tightened up or adjusted.

I doubt you will find the "perfect" floor plan, unless you go the DIY or custom-built route. So it's pretty much down to deciding which one works best for you, with the smallest drawbacks, allowing for work-arounds and fixes.

Some of the design choices in the 18M are ridiculous, like screwing the rather heavy table to a thin piece of flexing wood. Then again, I found a table is just in the way and took it out completely. Someone else who plans to sit a lot at a table when camping might not go for that.

I was a bit worried about "Thor" too, but interestingly, they have been rather responsive both when calling and emailing. Horror stories tend to be shared more freely than positive experiences, so the impression of a brand/company/manufacturer may become a bit skewed. You'll probably find such negative experiences with any brand.

I figured that as long as the chassis is decent and reliable, the camper related things can usually be fixed or replaced/updated. Of course it is best to start with something that is very close to what you want, but if you are not willing to make compromises, well good luck in finding the ultimate vehicle.

saddlesore · 04-08-2023, 05:14 AM

An RV that is "TOO LARGE" lasts for a week or two until You adjust... One that is "TOO SMALL"..lasts forever..

fourthgear · 04-08-2023, 10:07 AM

That's the thing , is larger better or is smaller more to your liking , as was said already , everything has its down & upsides. Some like to take their house with them camping /traveling & the cost that is associated with it ,some like the somewhat roughing it with a smaller RV & enjoy the ability to park in a normal parking spot where ever they go & with a all wheel drive or 4x4 system can go places the larger RV's will never think of .

I would see about renting a class B for a weekend & see what it feels like .

We have owned Boats & lived in them on weekends / weeks of vacation & living in a 22' boat , even with the Aft cabin is not much of an issue , basically to sleep & get out of a storm now & then , our 28' had much more room ,but with the extra expense of fuel for two engines & cost of the boat/docking , so we have no problem with the class B & with two Dogs .Our one child is gone & married living in NY state

As far as TMC quality is concerned , yes there will be issues , most RV's do have small issues that will bug you & some head scratchers , but after owning a TMC produced conversion for more then a year , its not high end , but it works & thats what you pay for . You can have problems with even the more expensive RV's.

The Gritz Carlton · 04-08-2023, 01:48 PM

The more moving parts, the more issues you will have. The bigger the RV, the more moving parts. In theory, they all should be great and function as designed and engineered. The issues begin and end with the labor force and lack of concern with the build process followed by low levels of QC. The bigger the manufacturer, the bigger this issue becomes. Smaller B's and "micro C's" seem to have less issues. Eliminating slides was a huge plus for me. As Rize said...get a quality chassis that will drag it all home...if you can't fix things yourself.

Dauntless · 07-12-2023, 09:20 PM

lol... Uhhh how about 4 NTSB recalls and a defective water heater.

I'm sure we will love it when we get it back from all the repairs.

**16ACE27** · 07-12-2023, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauntless

lol... Uhhh how about 4 NTSB recalls and a defective water heater.

I'm sure we will love it when we get it back from all the repairs.

Sounds like minor stuff easily remedied. What RV do you have?

Chateau_Nomad · 07-13-2023, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick Willy

I looked at one over the weekend and like most of what I saw.
For the price, its not bad at all. Had a few concerns though.

That bed... it is very hard and because it doubles as your sofa and dinette you dont really want to leave it in "bed mode", so a topper is out.
Normally I would just say to put a topper on it but there is no place to store the topper.
would pay extra if they offered a better bed and doubt it would be easy to put in something different. Also, the bed was of poor quality. was falling apart brand new.

I am also considering a Winnebago pocket because it is just as small and has a murphy bed with tons of storage. Yet it lacks so many things the Scope has.

Chinook is back. Too small for me, but looks like solid quality builds. I saw a video on a Transit Ecoboost model that was very impressive.

Dauntless · 07-13-2023, 01:28 AM

No, not little. Generator recall, Awning recall, water pump that won't shut off, transmission recall, seatbelt recall. We just bought it. Scope 18M. It's not just mine either. The techs are seeing a ton of this, they knew exactly what was wrong. They're being very helpful, I know they'll fix it but it was designed during Covid and the parts were sourced during Covid. This model also has other design issues but they have so much packed into the small space it's no wonder.

Dauntless · 07-13-2023, 01:35 AM

I would say to check Vin on any of them. They all have some goofy recall.

saddlesore · 07-14-2023, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the gritz carlton

everything about rv's are a sacrifice. Even a 40' dp has its drawbacks where use of space is concerned. An 18' van conversion is the pinnacle of this sacrifice. There's tons of floorplans by many manufacturers. If you have to start modifying the layout to fit your needs even before you buy it, it doesn't sound like the right choice. Things will only go downhill after that.

I Fully Concur !

Scubawise · 07-14-2023, 09:51 PM

If you do not love the floor plan . SKIP!

Dauntless · 07-14-2023, 10:08 PM

We've had many RVs in our life. Truck Camper, Pop Up,5th Wheel a C and a Trailer. They all have issues. Not one of them didn't need a repair while we owned them or have something about it that wasn't right. New or used, didn't matter. Every inch of space inside the walls of a Class B are used and components are packed tight and you can't sit at a dealer tearing the panels off new RVs reading schematics before you buy one, they aren't going to let you do that. Always a surprise in there someplace! When it's off warranty to be sure ...I'm making some adjustments inside those walls though.

WhatnxtRV · 07-17-2023, 05:34 PM

We are new owners of a 2023 (2022 chassis, 2023 coach) 18M and are enjoying it, despite the issues. Love the floor plan with the larger bathroom. Storage is great for the two of us and a small dog. Being small was a "must have" as we use the RV as a second vehicle. Drives well, has the safety features, and gets good fuel economy (16-18 MPG). As was stated, the fit and finish was not as good as I would have liked. Dealer fixed most of it. Live with the rest. Gen and awning recalls done. For the bed, we removed the covers and took the foam to a local shop that does foam upholstery. Picked a foam that was softer. Works much better for sitting and sleeping. Was under $200 for all the foam pieces cut to size.

Yes, there is a lot compressed into the 18M size. Lots there and a potential for lots to go wrong. Much to learn for maintenance and self-repair. Happy that there are Forums like this for information and help.

Yes, would purchase again, even with the issues. Hopefully the list of issues will not grow.

Dauntless · 08-19-2023, 01:29 AM

We are very discouraged today with our Class B

The generator in the 2022 Scope/Rize is essentially buried in a case under the chassis of the RV and nearly impossible for the average person who isn't very mechanical to maintain at home.

The RV has to be put on a lift to access it. Minimum $100 before they do a thing to it. The encasing has to be opened. Another $100 in labor. Whatever they have to fix, Cummins charges $200.00 an hour. They have to put it back in the casing and that's another $100.00

Before you buy the RV understand clearly unless you are a mechanic, you will need to pay about $500.00 to even get the oil checked on the generator, let alone changed. Generators have to be maintained and this is a very very serious problem.

Camping World did the recall repair on the gas line on our Onan 2800 and the repair failed badly. The generator broke down 200 miles from home. (Gasoline pouring out of the generator) The tech hadn't clamped the ends of the recalled line and broke another hose in it in the process.

We got it back after a Cummins commercial generator repair shop repaired it. It ran beautifully but when we went to test the generator, it ran but wouldn't power the coach. There's a breaker on this buried generator that trips itself from a surge.

No Air, No microwave, no 110. Again... the generator is nearly impossible to access to reset this breaker, it has to go on a lift or the back of the RV has to be rolled up on some kind of high support. It's not a safe alternative to a lift either.

We called Cummins, they are going to reset this switch for us in a couple days but having had other RV's and knowing about breakers - they do pop and they do need to be reset occasionally. Your RV has to have easy access to your generator or the genset becomes useless.

I've heard every explanation and excuse that can be had from Thor, Cummins, Camping World. Everything from "You can still use it, plug it into shore power and don't use the generator" to...."You can always have the generator removed".

What? Remove it? Don't use it? Are they kidding?

The whole point of owning a Class B motor home is having a generator so you don't have to pay for campsites, make your own coffee in rest stops, so you can go to the bathroom and not get out of your motorhome in unsafe places. Without a viable generator you can't use this thing as it was intended. It's a terrible design and Thor needs to do something about this.

How is this 120K Motorhome any different than a conversion van or a pop-up camper if I can't generate my own power or the cost of generating my own power is $100.00 every time I trip a breaker?

I can't change what's happened but I can warn others.

It's been in the shop more than we've used it and the realization of this generator issue has me wanting to sell it.

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