Converter Question

ChuckV · 02-13-2022, 01:49 AM

The other day I found that my 2017 Kz R384RLT 5th wheel electrical system was dead as a door nail ...

Chucked the 50 amp power cord coming into the trailer an there was 120 on either side of the 50amp cord but no power to the trailer

I believe it is the converter since I have no power to the breakers, yet the breaker for the converter is not tripped which puzzles me ....

If I charge the batteries all the 120 now works an the LEDs in the main power panel come on

So I'm wondering if my thinking is correct I need to replace the 60amp WACO converter ...

If I do replace it I'm looking at the Progressive 70amp smart converter an not the cheap WACO 65amp one that came with the trailer

TNXS in advance

ChuckV1

**16ACE27** · 02-13-2022, 03:30 AM

Your converter has nothing to do with the 50 amp service getting to the AC loads.
If you charged your batteries and you now have the DC lights working it's because the batteries are supplying that 12 VDC.

Before you pronounce the converter dead you need to verify there is 120 VAC available in the RV from SP. If there isn't as you claim, despite measuring the AC voltage at the cord, then the converter will not supply 12 VDC to the DC buss and batteries no matter how "good" it is.

ChuckV · 02-14-2022, 12:07 AM

TNXS for replay, that's the problem, 120 on each side of the neutral to the 5th wheel but nothing afterword inside if batteries a less that 12volts... Not a volt to the control center unless I charger the batteries an then I get shore power inside Ugh ....

As well batteries drain off to less that 12volts in 24 hours, thus I have to put charger on batteries an build them back up to 13.5 volts to get AC back into trailer to run any appliance such a frig on AC, TV on AC etc...

Chuck

Jimbo56 · 02-14-2022, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckV

TNXS for replay, that's the problem, 120 on each side of the neutral to the 5th wheel but nothing afterword inside if batteries a less that 12volts... Not a volt to the control center unless I charger the batteries an then I get shore power inside Ugh ....

As well batteries drain off to less that 12volts in 24 hours, thus I have to put charger on batteries an build them back up to 13.5 volts to get AC back into trailer to run any appliance such a frig on AC, TV on AC etc...

Chuck

I had same symptoms a few years back when we had a 5 er. AC into converter, no DC out of converter. Bought a 30 amp dewalt battery charger, hooked to the house batteries and finished our trip. Replaced the converter when we got home. Voila! DC out of converter.

Travelin' Texans · 02-14-2022, 03:12 PM

Your AC power goes through the ATS (auto transfer switch) that switches from shore power to generator & vice versa as needed then to the breaker panel. There have been several postings that the connections inside the ATS have shorted, may want to check there before spending several hundred $$$ on a converter, if I recall the ATS is less than a $100.

**16ACE27** · 02-14-2022, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

Your AC power goes through the ATS (auto transfer switch) that switches from shore power to generator & vice versa as needed then to the breaker panel. There have been several postings that the connections inside the ATS have shorted, may want to check there before spending several hundred $$$ on a converter, if I recall the ATS is less than a $100.

I doubt his 5th wheel has a generator or ATS.

ChuckV · 02-14-2022, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

I doubt his 5th wheel has a generator or ATS.

You are correct, we opted not to get the 5k generator even though the 5er
could have handled it an is equip for such ...

OldWEB · 02-15-2022, 12:46 AM

You seem to provide more information at this forum... playing favorites??
https://kzfamilyforum.com/thread/4000/converter-problem

JimOIB · 02-15-2022, 12:02 PM

The service cable for a 50amp rig is terminated in a device that "splits" the two 120VAC legs into two branches. One leg typically goes to the distribution center and the other leg goes to a second AC and/or residential fridge. Don't ask me the name of the device because I'm having a senior moment. But there was someone on the forum converting a Class C to 50amps and needed this device to work. If you use a dogbone to hook to 30amp service then only the leg going to the distribution center is active. I'm not sure if 12VDC goes to the device to "activate" it or not.

The distro center is a simple device - 120VAC in to a breaker panel just like at home. One of the breakers goes to the 120VAC to 12VDC converter that then feeds to the 12VDC buss.

The fact that your batteries are going from 13.5 to 12 in 24 hours would leave me to believe the batteries are on their last legs and need to be replaced. And, if 12v is needed to activate the 50amp service "splitter" then the batteries are the source of your problem. Just my $0.02.

**16ACE27** · 02-15-2022, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo12

The service cable for a 50amp rig is terminated in a device that "splits" the two 120VAC legs into two branches. One leg typically goes to the distribution center and the other leg goes to a second AC and/or residential fridge. Don't ask me the name of the device because I'm having a senior moment. But there was someone on the forum converting a Class C to 50amps and needed this device to work. If you use a dogbone to hook to 30amp service then only the leg going to the distribution center is active. I'm not sure if 12VDC goes to the device to "activate" it or not.

The distro center is a simple device - 120VAC in to a breaker panel just like at home. One of the breakers goes to the 120VAC to 12VDC converter that then feeds to the 12VDC buss.

The fact that your batteries are going from 13.5 to 12 in 24 hours would leave me to believe the batteries are on their last legs and need to be replaced. And, if 12v is needed to activate the 50amp service "splitter" then the batteries are the source of your problem. Just my $0.02.

Well that's a new one on me. I have never heard of; or can think of any reason to have such a device as a standard 50 amp distribution center (breaker box) already splits the two legs into individual 120 VAC circuits.

And certainly, a 30 amp to 50 amp dogbone sends the single "hot leg" to both of the 50 amp "hot legs" (it's inherent in the construction of the dogbone) so both legs in the 5th wheel would still get 120 VAC to neutral so all items are powered, they just can't all be on at the same time.

JimOIB · 02-15-2022, 06:23 PM

So I'm going to dig a hole...

A 30 to 50 amp single dogbone only provides one of the two 120VAC legs to the RV. A dual dogbone will provide both. As far as I know a 30amp single dogbone will not provide 120VAC to both 50amp legs.

Most 50amp RVs have some sort of Energy Management System (EMS) - from my senior moment - that senses if one or two legs of 120VAC are coming into the rig. If only one, then is switches power between the two legs in the rig as needed. It will sense a single 30amp 120VAC connection and on a priority basis switch power as needed. It requires 12vdc to work properly - at least the "intelligent" ones do. IHMO the OPs batteries are shot and need to be replaced if they have an intelligent EMS.

lwmcguire · 02-15-2022, 09:39 PM

Sorry, your wrong

A 30 to 50 dogbone is connected to both legs

30 amps to both 50 amp legs

**16ACE27** · 02-15-2022, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo12

So I'm going to dig a hole...

A 30 to 50 amp single dogbone only provides one of the two 120VAC legs to the RV. A dual dogbone will provide both. As far as I know a 30amp single dogbone will not provide 120VAC to both 50amp legs.

Most 50amp RVs have some sort of Energy Management System (EMS) - from my senior moment - that senses if one or two legs of 120VAC are coming into the rig. If only one, then is switches power between the two legs in the rig as needed. It will sense a single 30amp 120VAC connection and on a priority basis switch power as needed. It requires 12vdc to work properly - at least the "intelligent" ones do. IHMO the OPs batteries are shot and need to be replaced if they have an intelligent EMS.

Let me help:

I don't know what dogbones you have experience with, but every 50-to-30 dogbone I am aware of DOES supply 120 VAC to both 50 amp legs.

And I agree that a good 50 Amp EMS will cough, choke and possibly deny service if both hot legs are not present. But good EMSs recognize when a dogbone is used by the in-phase sine waves of the hot legs and if capable, limit power usage to 30 amps. Better ones you can even set the incoming current limit to 20 or 15 amps.

But why would any EMS require 12 VDC from the house batteries to operate when they have AC voltage coming in?

And finally, although the OP does have a very nice 5th wheel, no where on KZ's website, brochure, or Owners Manual does it mention any EMS or anything else between the SP cord and breaker box:

https://www.kz-rv.com/2017-products/...fications.html

JimOIB · 02-15-2022, 10:02 PM

Thank you for the clarification and education. Much appreciated.

lwmcguire · 02-16-2022, 01:28 PM

Ace brings up a nice feature

If you're leaving your coach plugged into a 15 or 20 amp breaker you can change the input to that since it will default to 30

May keep your coach from tripping the breaker by preventing a large load from starting

Mgtv53 · 02-19-2022, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo12

thank you for the clarification and education. Much appreciated.

i think yuo may have loose connection to your breakers box . I will titten all connections first and check each leg you should get 120 volt on each

MLP · 02-20-2022, 07:44 PM

I always start at the converter first. Check the power socket it is plugged into. A lot of fifth wheel manufactures have a standard 110VAC plug into the converter. Check the fuses. Then check the converter's 12V output after disconnecting the DC cables. Look up your converter's manufacture manual at their web site. Look under troubleshooting for the proper voltage range for your converter. Mine had power out, but at 15.8VDC.

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