No More Axis 450 Chassis?

[Bob Denman]

Chance,
That picture of the "naked" chassis (with a steering wheel); makes me think of one thing:
How much fun would THAT be in the dunes??

[Chance]

That’s the kind of chassis Thor would need in order to build smaller Class As the size of Hymers, but with power, toughness, and towing capacity US buyers would likely want.

There are a lot of Sprinter and Transit motorhomes in the 24-foot size range, so there is demand for smaller units. Whether Class As that size could compete with Cs is the risk. Would enough people buy smaller Axis if designed like a Hymer?

[Bob Denman]

If you like the Hymer design: just buy one!

One thing is for sure: you'll be the first kid on your block to have one!

[Muggs]

Pulling an open trailer with a drag car the e350 would have been past both GVWR and GCVW. The extra 2,000 lbs of GVWR is very atteactive. The other F53 units we looked at did not have as much total capacity.

[Chance]

No doubt that on an existing motorhome design, going up to a higher GCWR chassis will increase tow rating. However, it’s also possible to get higher tow rating out of a specific chassis by building a much lighter motorhome. By reducing the Gross Vehicle Weight, more of the GCWR remains free for trailer.

In the case of E-350, most configurations including the SRW Cutaway have the same maximum 18,500 pound GCWR. Therefore, the lighter the motorhome, the more it can tow. Even a van like mine has a tow rating close to 10,000 pounds.

I’m just saying that if a motorhome is made smaller and lighter, the E-350 can tow up to 10,000 pounds. Realistically I’d expect 8,000 to 9,000 pounds maximum if an effort is made to keep motorhome weight low.

The attached data is for 2021 Model Year, but it’s similar for 2019 with 6.8L V10 or 6.2L V8.


P.S. — Note “Super Duty” reference at top of page.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Chance

Yeah, the “stripped” chassis is very similar to a “Cutaway” that has had the body removed. Specifications for the frame, suspension, engine, etc. are essentially the same when comparing similar-size and rated units.

cut...

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I'm surprised how many here don't know their A's from a hole in the ground....

Not really sure how to read this but given the benefit of doubt, thank you for demonstrating.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Chance

No doubt that on an existing motorhome design, going up to a higher GCWR chassis will increase tow rating. However, it’s also possible to get higher tow rating out of a specific chassis by building a much lighter motorhome...

Don't you think that they're already building them pretty darn flimsy?
Crepe Paper and Balsa wood can be useful: but I'd rather have something more... substantial.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Chance

No doubt that on an existing motorhome design, going up to a higher GCWR chassis will increase tow rating. However, it’s also possible to get higher tow rating out of a specific chassis by building a much lighter motorhome. By reducing the Gross Vehicle Weight, more of the GCWR remains free for trailer.

In the case of E-350, most configurations including the SRW Cutaway have the same maximum 18,500 pound GCWR. Therefore, the lighter the motorhome, the more it can tow. Even a van like mine has a tow rating close to 10,000 pounds.

I’m just saying that if a motorhome is made smaller and lighter, the E-350 can tow up to 10,000 pounds. Realistically I’d expect 8,000 to 9,000 pounds maximum if an effort is made to keep motorhome weight low.

The attached data is for 2021 Model Year, but it’s similar for 2019 with 6.8L V10 or 6.2L V8.


P.S. — Note “Super Duty” reference at top of page.

I'm pretty sure you're referencing an entire towing upgrade. The best towing capability I've seen out there (so far) is 8k (i.e. frame capability). Another 2k is going to take some additional engineering/metal gauge/reinforcement/?

It may require box channel over c-channel?

Question, not an answer.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The_Breeze

I'm pretty sure you're referencing an entire towing upgrade. The best towing capability I've seen out there (so far) is 8k (i.e. frame capability). Another 2k is going to take some additional engineering/metal gauge/reinforcement/?

It may require box channel over c-channel?

Question, not an answer.

I don’t think so. Most motorhomes are that way because they weigh quite a bit, and or the typical chassis extension at rear reduces towing capacity.

However, Ford states that E-350 has up to GCWR of 18,500 pounds. As an example, if a small motorhome was built on E-350 and it weighed 8,500 pounds, and had no frame extension, it could tow up to 10,000 pounds with proper receiver hitch. That’s the way a common van like mine went up to 10,000-pound tow rating.

Most likely a motorhome in US, even a tiny one, would weigh around 9,000 to 10,000 pounds minimum, which is why I said 8,000 ~ 9,000 pound towing is more realistic. However, if a small Class C was built similar to the smaller Coachmen Cross Trek, the 20XG which is 24-ft long, but on Ford E-350, then tow rating could be quite high.

[RAWeems]

Originally Posted by The_Breeze

That was said before as well and consensus could reveal that's why they starting sourcing 450's. The RV market was hot. Anyone see the show GoRving on one of those off channels?

They weren't going to halt production if they could get their hands on 'Y'. The next cheapest alternative that could do the job without getting put out of business by lawsuits was the 450.

If they seriously put that land yacht back on a 350, it better come with some serious suspension changes to the RV market or the people who buy them have a very good chance of getting financially hosed - or worse.

Yes we watch GoRving on Great American Country channel. We got hooked when we started looking for an RV. We haven't purchased yet, I don't like debt so the truck has to be paid off first lol, but looking to get a Vegas 27.7 by next year. I just wish the show would show some newer episodes. They just show old repeats.

I hope it's a typo on the 350 chassis. We would want the 450 but we want a 2019 model anyway.

[taylorbob1]

Originally Posted by RAWeems

. Cut...

I hope it's a typo on the 350 chassis. We would want the 450 but we want a 2019 model anyway.

No typo
For 2020...
E350 for the 24.1
E450 for the 25.6 & 27.7

2020 Axis Brochure

See spec sheet below for Gross Vehicle Weights listed on 2020 brochure:

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by taylorbob1

No typo
For 2020...
E350 for the 24.1
E450 for the 25.6 & 27.7

2020 Axis Brochure

See spec sheet below for Gross Vehicle Weights listed on 2020 brochure:

Actually: Yes typo: The website lists E350 for all 3 models despite the fact that the GVWR and GCWR's shown are for E350 for the 24.1 and E450 for the other two models.

[Richardg]

Can anyone with a Vegas/Axis on an E350 chassis post the OCCC from their door sticker?

[taylorbob1]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Actually: Yes typo: The website lists E350 for all 3 models despite the fact that the GVWR and GCWR's shown are for E350 for the 24.1 and E450 for the other two models.

Now I’m confused...
We are talking about 2020 model year here, at least that was the post I was replying to.

These two 2020 Window Stickers clearly list a 24.1 with an E350 & a 27.7 with an E450. Are you telling me that the VIN on 27.7 is actually an E350 masquerading as an E450???

[taylorbob1]

Originally Posted by Richardg

Can anyone with a Vegas/Axis on an E350 chassis post the OCCC from their door sticker?

The VIN number tells all
Characters 5-7
E3K = E350
E4K = E450

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by taylorbob1

Now I’m confused...
We are talking about 2020 model year here, at least that was the post I was replying to.

These two 2020 Window Stickers clearly list a 24.1 with an E350 & a 27.7 with an E450. Are you telling me that the VIN on 27.7 is actually an E350 masquerading as an E450???

No, he's saying the website has a typo listing all the Axis with an E350 chassis.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Richardg

Can anyone with a Vegas/Axis on an E350 chassis post the OCCC from their door sticker?

Excellent question — I’d like to see that also.


Some get caught up on E-350 versus E-450 when Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity is more important for most buyers.

A smaller and lighter motorhome built on an E-350 can have a higher OCCC rating than a larger and heavier motorhome built on an E-450 chassis.

Granted a fully loaded E-450 can tow a bit more, but an E-350 has at least 6,000 pounds difference between GCWR (18,500) and GVWR (12,500 max), which should be plenty for the vast majority of buyers looking to tow a toad.

[Oneilkeys]

I think we are getting off point here. The thing we are discussing is the difference between a 24.1 on a 350 vs a 450 chassis. The GVWR for a 350 is 12,500 lbs (unless they have changed it recently). The GVWR for a 450 is 14,500 lbs. My 2014 Vegas fully loaded for a 2-3 month trip always weighed out right around 12,500 lbs. My 2016 Axis, full loaded weighs out almost exactly the same. All the additional GVWR is over the rear axel. I feel more comfortable with 14,500 GVWR. I don’t know if it really makes that much difference.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

I think we are getting off point here. The thing we are discussing is the difference between a 24.1 on a 350 vs a 450 chassis. The GVWR for a 350 is 12,500 lbs (unless they have changed it recently). The GVWR for a 450 is 14,500 lbs. My 2014 Vegas fully loaded for a 2-3 month trip always weighed out right around 12,500 lbs. My 2016 Axis, full loaded weighs out almost exactly the same. All the additional GVWR is over the rear axel. I feel more comfortable with 14,500 GVWR. I don’t know if it really makes that much difference.

Actually the original post was merely pointing out that on Thor's website it said E-350 for all floorplans of Axis/Vegas units....thats it.