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Old 07-06-2019, 01:53 AM   #1
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Towing a Lincoln MKS

One reason we purchased a rv was that my wife has asthma. I thought I could rent a car at our destination but all of the cars we looked at had a strong perfume oder, which is a trigger for her asthma.

The asthma and perfume are the reason Lyft, Uber and taxis wonít work.

So one option we are now considering is to tow our Lincoln MKS on a dolly.

Can I do this?

I have a 2016 Thor windsport 27K. The weight is 18000 and if I am reading the book right, it can handle an additional 8000 lbs. The curb weight of the MKS is 4100 lbs. the MKS is a Ford Taurus.

What would you recommend for a dolly? I have looked on line at the acme tow dolly, and several that PPL and camping world carry.

Acme said there are several of their dollies being used to tow MKS today. Not to doubt them but is anyone using the Acme dolly with a MKS or Taurus? It is about 100 lbs lighter than the others so it is intriguing. Their pictures make it look like they put some thought into the design.

Kerry
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:29 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Diana&Kerry View Post
One reason we purchased a rv was that my wife has asthma. I thought I could rent a car at our destination but all of the cars we looked at had a strong perfume oder, which is a trigger for her asthma.

The asthma and perfume are the reason Lyft, Uber and taxis wonít work.

So one option we are now considering is to tow our Lincoln MKS on a dolly.

Can I do this?

I have a 2016 Thor windsport 27K. The weight is 18000 and if I am reading the book right, it can handle an additional 8000 lbs. The curb weight of the MKS is 4100 lbs. the MKS is a Ford Taurus.

What would you recommend for a dolly? I have looked on line at the acme tow dolly, and several that PPL and camping world carry.

Acme said there are several of their dollies being used to tow MKS today. Not to doubt them but is anyone using the Acme dolly with a MKS or Taurus? It is about 100 lbs lighter than the others so it is intriguing. Their pictures make it look like they put some thought into the design.

Kerry
Max weight including toad is 23,000 lbs (GCWR). Hitch is rated at 8,000 lbs. Master Tow dollies weight 450 or 551 lbs, add 4,100 for the MKS and your tow weight would be at least 4,550 lbs. So 23,000 minus 4,550 = 18,450 lbs. The answer is you can safely tow the MKS using electric or surge brake equipped dolly. 15,000 miles on my Master Tow 80THD towing three different cars and trucks with no complaints. My Big Tex carries the Master Tow and has all parts in stock.
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:45 AM   #3
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Thanks! I will look into it.

Kerry
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Diana&Kerry View Post
One reason we purchased a rv was that my wife has asthma. I thought I could rent a car at our destination but all of the cars we looked at had a strong perfume oder, which is a trigger for her asthma.

The asthma and perfume are the reason Lyft, Uber and taxis won’t work.

So one option we are now considering is to tow our Lincoln MKS on a dolly.

Can I do this?

I have a 2016 Thor windsport 27K. The weight is 18000 and if I am reading the book right, it can handle an additional 8000 lbs. The curb weight of the MKS is 4100 lbs. the MKS is a Ford Taurus.

What would you recommend for a dolly? I have looked on line at the acme tow dolly, and several that PPL and camping world carry.

Acme said there are several of their dollies being used to tow MKS today. Not to doubt them but is anyone using the Acme dolly with a MKS or Taurus? It is about 100 lbs lighter than the others so it is intriguing. Their pictures make it look like they put some thought into the design.

Kerry
Questions that must be answered, can the MKS steering wheel be locked and does the dolly have a rotating bed?

If the wheel can be locked just about any dolly will work as long at it is wide enough.

If the wheel cannot be locked you need to research whether or not a rotating bed dolly will work. The manual for my Master Tow (has a rotating bed) specifically states the steering wheel must be locked when towing. My MKZ Hybrid did not have a locking steering column (wheel). I traded the MKZ for a Jeep Grand Cherokee which gets outfitter for flat towing next week.

Bottom line, read the dolly instruction manual for steering wheel locking requirements before purchasing.
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:40 PM   #5
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Thanks, I will check.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:17 PM   #6
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Newbie question

Jim and Roy

If the tow minus the maximum capacity equal 18450, and the rv is 18000, does that mean if I tow the car, the weight of my wife, myself, and our stuff canít exceed 450 lb?

Kerry
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Beau388 View Post
Max weight including toad is 23,000 lbs (GCWR). Hitch is rated at 8,000 lbs. Master Tow dollies weight 450 or 551 lbs, add 4,100 for the MKS and your tow weight would be at least 4,550 lbs. So 23,000 minus 4,550 = 18,450 lbs. The answer is you can safely tow the MKS using electric or surge brake equipped dolly. 15,000 miles on my Master Tow 80THD towing three different cars and trucks with no complaints. My Big Tex carries the Master Tow and has all parts in stock.

I don't questions the numbers, but just curious to understand the industry thought process with regard to safety.

How can Thor get away with saying it can pull 8,000 lbs, when known weight of RV is 18,000 lbs and the Max Weight is set at 23,000? Is Thor lying? Most other RV Mfgs say Max tow weight is 5,000 lbs. Their numbers add up. I was giving Thor an advantage until I read your explanation because I thought I could pull 3,000 lbs more?

What am I missing....
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:05 PM   #8
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How much can a windsport pull?

I think I started a good discussion. I will call Thor to get their opinion during the work week, and I will post what I learn.
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Old 07-06-2019, 03:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
I don't questions the numbers, but just curious to understand the industry thought process with regard to safety.

How can Thor get away with saying it can pull 8,000 lbs, when known weight of RV is 18,000 lbs and the Max Weight is set at 23,000? Is Thor lying? Most other RV Mfgs say Max tow weight is 5,000 lbs. Their numbers add up. I was giving Thor an advantage until I read your explanation because I thought I could pull 3,000 lbs more?

What am I missing....
The maximum combined weight is the key. If the GCWR is 23000 and the GVWR is 18000 then you can safely tow 5000. If you remove some weight from the motorhome (e.g. leave the DW home) you can tow a little more as long as the GCWR does not exceed 23K.

Based on my experience Thor does not tell you that you can tow 8000 lbs. Thor tells you the hitch is rated for 8000 lbs and lets you do the math based on sticker to determine what you can tow. All of their literature mentions the hitch and not the towing capability. The only exception I have seen is with their Super Cs where they proudly boast the towing capacity of 10,000 lbs.

Now a dealer may have sold you a bill of goods during the sale but that wasn't Thor.
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Old 07-06-2019, 03:43 PM   #10
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Thanks!
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Old 07-06-2019, 03:44 PM   #11
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It sounds like I will need to buy another car.
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:11 PM   #12
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I have towed my 4200 Chevy Colorado on a Stehl dolly with electric brakes just fine. I use the portable brake controller from Curt that plugs in between the RV and the dolly. No installation required on the RV. Easy peasy.
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Old 07-06-2019, 06:49 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Diana&Kerry View Post
Jim and Roy

If the tow minus the maximum capacity equal 18450, and the rv is 18000, does that mean if I tow the car, the weight of my wife, myself, and our stuff can’t exceed 450 lb?

Kerry
What it means is you can carry 450 lbs of stuff in the CAR and not exceed the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). What you add to the coach will increase the coach's weight, but as long the total coach weight is below the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) you are fine.



CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity), used Sept 2000 – present, means GVWR minus the following: Unloaded Vehicle Weight (UVW), full fresh (potable) water weight (including that for the water heater) full LP gas weight, and Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating (SCWR). Note: Remember that optional accessories or equipment not included in the UVW will take up part of the Cargo Carrying Capacity. The CCC should be listed on a yellow tag on the inside lower right of the entry door.
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:11 AM   #14
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What it means is you can carry 450 lbs of stuff in the CAR and not exceed the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). What you add to the coach will increase the coach's weight, but as long the total coach weight is below the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) you are fine.
...

To be clear, the coach weight fully loaded (people, cargo, fuel, water) needs to be less than the GVWR - AND - the combined weight of coach, tow hardware, toad, and its cargo, fuel, etc needs to be less than GCWR...

Best to load coach as you normally do and get an actual weight reading -CAT scales at any truck stop for about $10...
Then you know what you have to work with.
Bring the car along and it goes on the third scale section. Front RV wheels on first section... rear RV on second.
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Old 07-07-2019, 03:54 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by dstankov View Post
The maximum combined weight is the key. If the GCWR is 23000 and the GVWR is 18000 then you can safely tow 5000. If you remove some weight from the motorhome (e.g. leave the DW home) you can tow a little more as long as the GCWR does not exceed 23K.

Based on my experience Thor does not tell you that you can tow 8000 lbs. Thor tells you the hitch is rated for 8000 lbs and lets you do the math based on sticker to determine what you can tow. All of their literature mentions the hitch and not the towing capability. The only exception I have seen is with their Super Cs where they proudly boast the towing capacity of 10,000 lbs.

Now a dealer may have sold you a bill of goods during the sale but that wasn't Thor.
No dealer has sold me on anything because I have not bought any RV yet. I appreciate you clarifying what I was missing. From my perspective Thor is lying, or to be polite deceptive about the what the RV may tow? At least the ones with 23,000 GCWR. I guess they could argue if I remove the engine I could tow 8,000 lbs. Wait that would be a lie too

I don't think I would need a very good attorney to win a case against Thor if I am towing 6,000 lbs with factory coach for total weight of 24,000 and some major damage were to occur affecting others or life; and consumer (me) was under the impression the Coach could safely tow 8,000 lbs.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:20 PM   #16
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Update

Ok, l talked to Thor. The GCWR for the Thor Windsport is 23,000 lb.

This means the rv, you, your passengers, your stuff, your food, water, propane, gasoline, and the tow canít exceed 23,000 lb.

Yes, the hitch is rated for 8,000 lb. it can tow 8000 lbs but your total weight canít exceed 23,000 lb.

When I asked about why certain RVs with the V10 chassis are rated for 26,000, he said he didnít know but would guess they were designed differently. He knew the windsport was rated for 23,000 gross weight.

I didnít ask if I could exceed the 23,000 lb and by how much. Does anyone know?

All in all the person I talked to was really nice and knowledgeable.

Thor customer service phone number is 877-855-2867. It is typical of a lot of customer service phones, I waited a while for someone to pick up. After you get into the queue, donít press any other buttons! When I did, I was placed back at the beginning.

Kerry
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:25 PM   #17
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Update

I am now looking for a car that is under 3500 lbs that I can flat tow. Any suggestion?

Or a car rental company that doesnít perfume their cars.

Kerry
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:45 PM   #18
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A used Ford Focus can be flat towed and only weighs around 3000 lbs. You would have to be sure you got one with a good transmission (that dual clutch automatic has been giving Ford nightmares LOL).

A Fusion Hybrid comes in at 3695 lbs and can be flat towed.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:34 PM   #19
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two things that really tend to create confusion to new owners of motorhomes:

- Hitch weight capacity rating. This is from the HITCH manufacturer and has NOTHING to do with Thor, FR, Tiffin, Newmar, Fleetwood, or ANY RV manufacturer. It is simply the designed weight capacity that the Hitch is designed to safely handle. EVERY RV manufacturer HAS TO add a hitch that has a HIGHER weight rating capacity that EACH motorhome is designed to 'carry', BECAUSE otherwise you would have a hitch that is NOT capable of carrying the weight that the motorhome is designed to be able to, causing even more arguments and discussions. The Hitch has to be able to withstand the capacity of the Motorhome it is attached to, AND MORE, so that it is certainly able to withstand the weight that is attached to it while traveling. You would NOT want a hitch that is LESS than capable... that would be a safety hazard.

- GVCWR, or GVCW: This is the TOTAL weight of EVERYTHING, including the motorhome AND the tow bar AND the trailer AND the tow vehicle, etc., including PEOPLE riding in the motorhome, WATER in the tanks, FUEL in the tank, STUFF on board, FOOD in the fridge, etc., etc.
While it's not a simple task to actually determine what 'amount' of vehicle you can tow, it is all about the weight of the Motorhome and all it's contents BEFORE you enter into a discussion about how 'much' you can tow.
WHY can the factory not just 'tell you' how much you can tow? Well, because not only are all motorhomes different, weight wise, even if the same model and floor plan, but the factory has NO CONTROL over you, how many people you are traveling with, how much stuff you bring on board, whether you travel with full water and fuel tanks, etc., etc.,... that's just not something they can 'guess' at - you as the owner have the total responsibility of ascertaining this yourself.... but, it's really easy if you just load up, and drive over to a CAT scale at a truck stop fuel station and find out. The scales are designed to weigh your front axles, then your full motorhome, then your rear axles, giving you all the information you need to then SUBTRACT that 'full' number from the motorhome's GVCW, giving you the Maximum 'towing' weight the motorhome can tow, IF that weight is LESS than the HITCH'S Max weight rating.



now, it's all as clear a mud : )
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:37 PM   #20
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and, yes, a good used Ford Focus or Fiesta is a great 4-door automatic sedan that is light weight and very easy to tow - put it in neutral and tow. 50,000 plus miles on both our Fiesta and Focus over the last five years and no issues.
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