Airstream New E1 Package — Generator-less

[Chance]

For their diesel Mercedes motorized RVs, Airstream’s new E1 package is single fuel.

Heat and hot water is provided by diesel fuel, and in place of propane or diesel generator, they add a Volta electrical system with 12.1 kWh of battery capacity. And with 58 VDC high-capacity alternator, it should charge battery bank quickly.


https://rvbusiness.com/airstream-lau...orized-models/


“JACKSON CENTER, Ohio – Airstream, Inc., maker of the iconic “silver bullet” fleet of Airstream travel trailers and best-in-class touring coaches, announced the E1 Package for its line of Mercedes-Benz motorized RVs. Following Airstream’s core principle of not making changes and only making improvements, the E1 Package provides owners with enhanced power storage and a single-fuel-source hydronic heating and hot water system which eliminates the need for propane gas or a gas generator.“

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Chance

For their diesel Mercedes motorized RVs, Airstream’s new E1 package is single fuel.

Heat and hot water is provided by diesel fuel, and in place of propane or diesel generator, they add a Volta electrical system with 12.1 kWh of battery capacity. And with 58 VDC high-capacity alternator, it should charge battery bank quickly.


https://rvbusiness.com/airstream-lau...orized-models/


“JACKSON CENTER, Ohio – Airstream, Inc., maker of the iconic “silver bullet” fleet of Airstream travel trailers and best-in-class touring coaches, announced the E1 Package for its line of Mercedes-Benz motorized RVs. Following Airstream’s core principle of not making changes and only making improvements, the E1 Package provides owners with enhanced power storage and a single-fuel-source hydronic heating and hot water system which eliminates the need for propane gas or a gas generator.“

Nice thx

[Judge]

Once we're done with our multi-month trips in a couple years, I could see selling the Magnitude and going for something smaller... like the Airstream Atlas with the E1 package... but man... the price is crazy and about $318K in that configuration.

I just can't see spending that kind of money for some short trips.... I think I'll be buying a boat instead once we are done with the Magnitude.

Although we will be selling the PA house within 5 years and be in Florida full-time instead of 8 months…. so maybe an Atlas isn’t out of the question once we do sell the house. An Atlas might be a cheaper way to visit the grandkids and family up north for several weeks or two months out of the year.

[Scubawise]

My god..AC off battery for 10 hours!
The future is here


When camping off-grid, the 3,200-watt pure sine inverter delivers AC power to the outlets, appliances, microwave, a new 1,100-watt all-electric single burner induction cooktop, and the air conditioner. This powerful system allows for an estimated 8-10 hours of air conditioning while operating on battery power.

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

My god..AC off battery for 10 hours!
The future is here


When camping off-grid, the 3,200-watt pure sine inverter delivers AC power to the outlets, appliances, microwave, a new 1,100-watt all-electric single burner induction cooktop, and the air conditioner. This powerful system allows for an estimated 8-10 hours of air conditioning while operating on battery power.

No way that battery poweres the air conditioner for 10 hours. Even if it did, what do I do for the other 14 hours in the day? Plug it in to a power source? If so, why add that package?

[Chance]

Cost of E1 option is high for sure, but so are other big-ticket items like 4X4 option or levelers which buyers often purchase. Below is description of what’s included in E1 package.

With 12.1 kWh of battery capacity, it should be easy to power a single high-efficiency air conditioner through the night. We must remember that it’s just as important to reduce electrical power requirements as it is to provide more battery capacity. A Power Saver 11,000 BTU/hr air conditioner (or new 13,500) draw a little over 1,000 Watts at rated conditions. At night it should be less. Anyway, a well insulated van doesn’t even need 5,000 BTU/hr to stay cool at night, so air conditioner will cycle on and off which will save even more battery energy.

I can’t find specs on air conditioner they use, but since Thor purchased Airxcel and they manufacture a 48 VDC variable-speed A/C, it may make cooling even more efficient, particularly at light loads during night. E1 package option is expensive, but at +/- 10% of motorhome cost, may end up being a popular choice.
.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

No way that battery poweres the air conditioner for 10 hours. Even if it did, what do I do for the other 14 hours in the day? Plug it in to a power source? If so, why add that package?

As a touring coach you are likely to drive it every day. Or you start engine and fast idle for an hour or two if needed just as you would a generator; maybe less depending on how much A/C is used.

I don’t know what the latest alternator Volta is using, but a while back it charged at 58 Volts which provided over 6,000 Watts. If I recall correctly, they had at least 3 alternator sizes. Due to high voltage, it doesn’t require a great amount of current (small one just over 100 Amps if I recall correctly).

It’s cool stuff, just too expensive for me.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

No way that battery poweres the air conditioner for 10 hours. Even if it did, what do I do for the other 14 hours in the day? Plug it in to a power source? If so, why add that package?

Run the engine for 20 mins to 2 hours with inverter on

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by Judge

Once we're done with our multi-month trips in a couple years, I could see selling the Magnitude and going for something smaller... like the Airstream Atlas with the E1 package... but man... the price is crazy and about $318K in that configuration.

I just can't see spending that kind of money for some short trips.... I think I'll be buying a boat instead once we are done with the Magnitude.

Although we will be selling the PA house within 5 years and be in Florida full-time instead of 8 months…. so maybe an Atlas isn’t out of the question once we do sell the house. An Atlas might be a cheaper way to visit the grandkids and family up north for several weeks or two months out of the year.

For 318k you could buy a lot of plane tickets, Enterprise rentals, and Airbnb’s.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

My god..AC off battery for 10 hours!
The future is here


When camping off-grid, the 3,200-watt pure sine inverter delivers AC power to the outlets, appliances, microwave, a new 1,100-watt all-electric single burner induction cooktop, and the air conditioner. This powerful system allows for an estimated 8-10 hours of air conditioning while operating on battery power.

I'm pretty sure running the diesel engine to extend the use of the AC in real life produces way more "pollution" than running a propane generator....
But hey!
It has a lot of lithium on board!
It produces a humongous profit for those in the know!!!
So probably "mother nature" will not take all that diesel burning into the "carbon footprint" calculation!!!!

PS: If you haven't figured, the above is sarcasm ....

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

For 318k you could buy a lot of plane tickets, Enterprise rentals, and Airbnb’s.

That is true...... we would probably use it for some short trips as well from long weekends to maybe 1 or 2 weeks.

But I am still choking on the $300K+ price tag. By the time I would be ready for something smaller, prices may be coming down... especially in the used market.

I checked RV Trader and there are a couple 2020 used models with between 3000 and 9000 miles around $230K but I saw a 2019 with 9500 miles for $189K and a 2018 with the same mileage for $185K.

The RV Market is already passed its peak now and with fuel prices and inflation it might turn into a runaway train downhill at some point if things don't change economically.

[RACarvalho]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQA2cYFFzKU

[Chance]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

I'm pretty sure running the diesel engine to extend the use of the AC in real life produces way more "pollution" than running a propane generator....
But hey!
It has a lot of lithium on board!
It produces a humongous profit for those in the know!!!
So probably "mother nature" will not take all that diesel burning into the "carbon footprint" calculation!!!!

PS: If you haven't figured, the above is sarcasm ....

I disagree completely. Occasionally, when engine is run solely to extend A/C use in one place, maybe that’s right. And I say “maybe” because even that’s not necessarily the case.

However, long-term (as in average over long periods of time), batteries will be charged often while driving or from the grid. Both of these will be far cleaner than a small single cylinder crude generator engine. And for what it’s worth, expensive diesel motorhomes like these tend to have diesel generators rather than propane if I recall correctly. Generators consume propane too fast, and most owners prefer refueling at diesel pump when cost is not an issue.

Let’s be serious here. Pollution (reduction) has nothing to do with a luxury motorhome like these. When someone pays over $250,000 for a Volta-equipped van or compact Class B+, it is for the convenience of having electricity at all times without having to start, hear, smell, and or feel vibration from a generator.

[DavidEM]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

I'm pretty sure running the diesel engine to extend the use of the AC in real life produces way more "pollution" than running a propane generator ....

I don't think so and particularly if you compare running the chassis engine to a diesel generator. Neither an Onan propane or diesel generators have any pollution controls whereas the Mercedes diesel produces probably 1/100 of the emissions an uncontrolled diesel would produce. Idling at 1,000 rpm should be very clean.

David

[Chance]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I don't think so and particularly if you compare running the chassis engine to a diesel generator. Neither an Onan propane or diesel generators have any pollution controls whereas the Mercedes diesel produces probably 1/100 of the emissions an uncontrolled diesel would produce. Idling at 1,000 rpm should be very clean.

David

David, it’s not just that, but also the reduction in generator time. This is not a steady-state problem like some would compare it as. If running generator to power air conditioner, it has to stay on 100% of time even though average load may only be 25% of generator capacity. On other hand if diesel V6 charges at 4,000 ~ 5,000 Watts, it will only need to run a fraction of “time” in order to power A/C overnight. Just saying engine won’t run 10 hours to get 10 hours of A/C through night.

The real advantage is when battery is charged while driving, so Mercedes engine just works a little more loaded while going down the road. Under these conditions, BSFC is way lower than a lightly-loaded generator. Granted, batteries and inverters are not 100% efficient, but total system efficiency is still higher.

System cost is still too high in my opinion, but it’s a step in right direction from technology standpoint. When Ford or other manufacturers build a hybrid van with OEM electric air conditioning, and with battery charging rate of 20 kW or much higher, these Volta-type systems will be obsoleted in my opinion. Ford’s Pro Power Onboard is an example of how much cheaper OEMs can build equipment similar to this Volta system.

[DavidEM]

David

[RACarvalho]

Chance,
you are dead on about the convenience of the electric set up which I agree with 100% (although it has a steep price!!!).

My picking is with the advertisement that is lying to the customer stating that this is "green" and/or produces less "pollution" than a Propane generator plus AGM batteries.

As for what engines produce more pollution(remember the definition of "pollution"in this case is "emissions"), you just need to check what level of after treatment an engine running on propane and an engine running on diesel needs to meet certification in order to realize that the natural gas one will be cleaner .
You add to that that the generator engine is way smaller than the vehicle engine and that once in a while the diesel engine will do a "regen" and you have the picture...

I don't want this tread to deviate, each one has his/her own opinion and it is ok. It is just that I don't like lies...

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

.... Neither an Onan propane or diesel generators have any pollution controls ...

You should ask WHY they are not required (at this moment) to have pollution controls...

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

No way that battery powers the air conditioner for 10 hours. Even if it did, what do I do for the other 14 hours in the day? Plug it in to a power source? If so, why add that package?

You might want to look at the Dometic RTX 2000 12 volt roof A/C. In econo mode it draws 228 watts of energy. If you have a 12,000 watt hour battery bank that is a couple days of continuous A/C usage with enough power left over to run the lights and cook top. After that you need to run the engine for a couple hours.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Beau388

You might want to look at the Dometic RTX 2000 12 volt roof A/C. In econo mode it draws 228 watt hours of energy....

you can make an AC that consumes only 1wh that doesn't mean it is usable.
228wh is 778 BTUs...
If you ever had a 5000 BTU AC you know what it can do (not much) so 778BTUs maybe good to keep your glove box cool ?