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Old 04-22-2020, 03:06 AM   #1
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 31W
State: Illinois
Posts: 87
THOR #7230
House batteries replacement

I have a class C 2017 31W. It came with 2 12v batteries that are located under the step. Has anyone up graded to 4-6v batteries, wet ot AGM. If yoe have what brand and size do you go with that could fit in that space..... I have taken all the measurements, but still hardto figure out about fitting them in the tight opening and be able to get to the connections
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Old 04-24-2020, 02:56 PM   #2
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Model: Aria 3401
State: Arkansas
Posts: 86
THOR #12542
Since nobody with your model has stepped in with any real world suggestions, I'll offer a generic one. Get measurements for some potential 6V batteries and mock up four of them using stiff cardboard or hardboard. Then pull your two 12V batteries and try to install the four mockups. That should give you a better idea of whether they will fit.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:14 PM   #3
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Model: Miramar 34.2
State: Colorado
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THOR #18651
I have a class A gasser (Miramar) and just bought 4 new 6 volt batteries.

NAPA has several different sizes of 6 volt deep cycle fleet battery’s and provide measurements of each.

The prices were very good, I paid $103 a piece, they have a 250 minute RC and fit my budget.

I have always known NAPA to have high quality but more $ parts. I was pleasantly surprised by finding these batteries

Steve
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:10 AM   #4
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THOR #7230
Thanks about making mockup batteries....I can take all the measurments of all the different batteries but its hard to tell if they will be able to be fit intp the tight space because of how they will have to be installed under the step..... I am going to try your suggestion. Thanks
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:54 AM   #5
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THOR #13224
The mock up idea is very good but IMHO I would call the NAPA store and ask them if you could bring your unit to the store and see if the batteries would fit in the space, I know in my Compass there is no room for 4 batteries and is even a 20 minute workout to get the 2 12 volts in and out. BTW I left my batteries in all winter up here in Canada and plugged into shore power for 3 days a month and they are fully charged and ready to go, whenever that is going to be in this Covid-19 problem
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Old 04-25-2020, 12:00 PM   #6
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THOR #12830
Bluetop Optima AGM direct replacement after much deliberation.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:19 PM   #7
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THOR #18651
I live in Colorado, with gas prices I’d love to travel back east to see my Grandkids!

A cruel trick, here’s cheap gas.

BTW you can’t leave home.

LOL
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Old 04-25-2020, 04:05 PM   #8
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State: Arizona
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THOR #13932
I don't want to turn this into a religious discussion of 6v vs 12v.

Here's the stance:
I already own TWELVE six volt batteries.
I have done the mockup battery from cardboard. It's in the thread in my signature.
I have found a place to easily put four of them in a spot you can throw a rock and hit and remove in about five minutes. I have already built a place to put four more for a total eight. Pictures are in my signature thread.

I've done the research, weighed the benefits, put in the time.

The six volt thing is a pretty basic hoax. It didn't used to be a hoax. Before there was anything but wet cells it was a fine path to take if you didn't have room for one large 12v but could find two spots for two smaller six volt. It was the only reason then, it's the only reason now.

The six volt myth has been dispelled by people smarter than I.
The 'don't set a battery on concrete' myth hasn't been a fact since the late sixties when they quit making batteries with tar bodies.
The 'magic' required for electricity to get through the plastic bodies now used is not from this dimension. Once said out loud, it makes sense. I use this as sense spoken out loud.

It's disputed.
I have $1,800 of six volts about to go into my greenhouse as a solar power and heat bank instead of into the rv.

Buying one or two lithium type batteries is much more sensical now. They're twice the draw(the reason to have 2 six volt batteries) in the same space as a 12v wet cell(the six volts take up twice the space)

Just thoughts from someone not only with the resources, but someone who already owns the batteries and has the fabrication skills.

(I have those 6v batteries because I got rid of two golf carts but kept the new/newish batteries and monster sized battery cables.)

I was wrong about putting in the six volts just because I had them. They add no value over a same amperage 12v except you can stash pairs in a smaller space each instead of needing a big space for the bigger 12v. For instance one 6v can go over each wheel well instead of a 2xbigger 12v over one wheel well.
There is no other value to them other than multiple small spaces being utilized.

A cell is a cell is a cell is a cell. That's the bottom line. There is no 6v cell. There is no 12v cell. They are called cells because they are groupings of 1.5v(+-ish) cells into battery. A 6v has the same cells as a 12v but one has twice as many of the same cells, the same size cells, the same voltage cells, just packaged as twice as big. There are percentage differences of far less than 3 percent in a laboratory setting. An rv is not a laboratory setting.

So do it or don't, it adds no value and deletes no rv level value except utilization of space.
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Old 04-29-2020, 06:50 PM   #9
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Windsport 29m
State: California
Posts: 31
THOR #5564
Batteries

I replaced my 2 OEM 12v batteries with 2 Full River 6v AGMs and they have worked great!
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Old 04-29-2020, 08:40 PM   #10
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State: Utah
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THOR #3257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacouser View Post
I have a class C 2017 31W. It came with 2 12v batteries that are located under the step. Has anyone up graded to 4-6v batteries, wet ot AGM. If yoe have what brand and size do you go with that could fit in that space..... I have taken all the measurements, but still hardto figure out about fitting them in the tight opening and be able to get to the connections
We just got rid of our 2 , 12v AGM and replaced with 2, 6v good of Cary batteries. They have more plates in them and two are equal to four 12 volt.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:40 PM   #11
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Model: Windsport 29m
State: North Carolina
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THOR #9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacouser View Post
I have a class C 2017 31W. It came with 2 12v batteries that are located under the step. Has anyone up graded to 4-6v batteries, wet ot AGM. If yoe have what brand and size do you go with that could fit in that space..... I have taken all the measurements, but still hardto figure out about fitting them in the tight opening and be able to get to the connections
Not sure why you want 4 batts unless you just want more power and usable hours. I'm told, since I've been thinking about upgrading my NorCold fridge to a DC HVAC conversion system from JC Refrigeration AND maybe a solar system to replace the 2--12 volt batteries to 2--Six volt and rewire them to 12v. You get more amp hours that way. Definitely go with AGM maintenance free. About 3 bills each but worth every penny!!
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:51 PM   #12
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Windsport 29m
State: North Carolina
Posts: 224
THOR #9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
I don't want to turn this into a religious discussion of 6v vs 12v.

Here's the stance:
I already own TWELVE six volt batteries.
I have done the mockup battery from cardboard. It's in the thread in my signature.
I have found a place to easily put four of them in a spot you can throw a rock and hit and remove in about five minutes. I have already built a place to put four more for a total eight. Pictures are in my signature thread.

I've done the research, weighed the benefits, put in the time.

The six volt thing is a pretty basic hoax. It didn't used to be a hoax. Before there was anything but wet cells it was a fine path to take if you didn't have room for one large 12v but could find two spots for two smaller six volt. It was the only reason then, it's the only reason now.

The six volt myth has been dispelled by people smarter than I.
The 'don't set a battery on concrete' myth hasn't been a fact since the late sixties when they quit making batteries with tar bodies.
The 'magic' required for electricity to get through the plastic bodies now used is not from this dimension. Once said out loud, it makes sense. I use this as sense spoken out loud.

It's disputed.
I have $1,800 of six volts about to go into my greenhouse as a solar power and heat bank instead of into the rv.

Buying one or two lithium type batteries is much more sensical now. They're twice the draw(the reason to have 2 six volt batteries) in the same space as a 12v wet cell(the six volts take up twice the space)

Just thoughts from someone not only with the resources, but someone who already owns the batteries and has the fabrication skills.

(I have those 6v batteries because I got rid of two golf carts but kept the new/newish batteries and monster sized battery cables.)

I was wrong about putting in the six volts just because I had them. They add no value over a same amperage 12v except you can stash pairs in a smaller space each instead of needing a big space for the bigger 12v. For instance one 6v can go over each wheel well instead of a 2xbigger 12v over one wheel well.
There is no other value to them other than multiple small spaces being utilized.

A cell is a cell is a cell is a cell. That's the bottom line. There is no 6v cell. There is no 12v cell. They are called cells because they are groupings of 1.5v(+-ish) cells into battery. A 6v has the same cells as a 12v but one has twice as many of the same cells, the same size cells, the same voltage cells, just packaged as twice as big. There are percentage differences of far less than 3 percent in a laboratory setting. An rv is not a laboratory setting.

So do it or don't, it adds no value and deletes no rv level value except utilization of space.
I am impressed my man. I'm no wiz when it comes to batteries but I was just told today by Dave at JC Refrigeration in Indiana that you get more amp hours out of two 6 volt batts than 2 12 volt batts. I'm thinking of converting my Norcold N611F fridge with one of there HVAC 12v systems. I want to be sure my batteries are enough to handle the extra draw between drives to charge them back up!! WHAT SAY YOU on this?? Bob Trice
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:54 PM   #13
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THOR #9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellenov View Post
We just got rid of our 2 , 12v AGM and replaced with 2, 6v good of Cary batteries. They have more plates in them and two are equal to four 12 volt.
Not sure I understand the name of those batteries. Would you please repeat the name and model of those 6v batteries?? Thanks
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Old 04-30-2020, 11:26 AM   #14
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Colorado
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THOR #2995
31W Batteries

I increased the battery size to 31series batteries and added a third battery in the shoe box located to the right of the battery box. It helps, but it is not perfect. I still run out of battery capasity. The residential fridge is the problem- it sucks a lot of energy.

Does your fridge ď make a Clunk Noise when starting while only using battery powerĒ? Mine does.
What model of Inverter do you have? Call me at 303-884-5884. CARL
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Old 04-30-2020, 04:31 PM   #15
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Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 4,388
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellenov View Post
We just got rid of our 2 , 12v AGM and replaced with 2, 6v good of Cary batteries. They have more plates in them and two are equal to four 12 volt.

Unless youíre comparing apples and oranges, two 6-Volt batteries are NOT equal to four 12-Volt batteries. If your talking about batteries twice as large each, thatís a different matter. In your case you may be referring to much larger golf cart batteries versus small AGMs.

When comparing equal size and weight batteries of same type and chemistry, there is not much difference at all in energy storage.

This keeps coming up simply because many people (including in sales) donít understand that a 6-Volt battery of equal energy capacity will have 2 times as much Amp-hour rating as the equivalent 12-Volt battery.

Example: 100 Amp-hours of 12V is equal to 200 Amp-hours of 6V.

If you have 2 batteries, and connect correctly, youíll end up with same 200 Amp-hours total either way. Itís a personal preference whether youíd want 2 batteries in series or parallel, but it wonít double your capacity.


If looking at 4 total (lead based flooded or AGM) batteries, it makes more sense to go with 6 Volt batteries so that you end up with 2 strings of 2 batteries each in series. If one went with 4 X 12-Volt batteries all in parallel, the 4 strings is more than recommended.

Hence, with 2 batteries you can go with 6 or 12 volt batteries but it makes very little difference. With 4 batteries Iíd go with 6-Volt (again ó assuming lead-based batteries and not lithium).
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Old 04-30-2020, 04:47 PM   #16
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 22FE
State: Tennessee
Posts: 4
THOR #10434
I am considering a battery upgrade from a group 29 lead-acid to group 31 lithium in my 2016 FE-22 class C. Space does not appear to be an issue as both are about the same size. Is there a capacity issue with the battery controller?
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Old 04-30-2020, 05:03 PM   #17
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Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
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THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post

.....cut....

A cell is a cell is a cell is a cell. That's the bottom line. There is no 6v cell. There is no 12v cell. They are called cells because they are groupings of 1.5v(+-ish) cells into battery. A 6v has the same cells as a 12v but one has twice as many of the same cells, the same size cells, the same voltage cells, just packaged as twice as big. There are percentage differences of far less than 3 percent in a laboratory setting. An rv is not a laboratory setting.

So do it or don't, it adds no value and deletes no rv level value except utilization of space.
Agree with pretty much everything, but just for clarity, flooded and AGM lead-based batteries are approximately 2 Volts per cell, hence 3 water caps on 6-volt and 6 water caps on 12-volt flooded batteries.

And if comparing equivalent size and weight batteries, 2 X 6-Volt versus 2 X 12-Volt batteries, then youíll end up with twice as many cells of half the size each when selecting 12-Volt batteries.

One advantage I like of two 6-Volt flooded in series versus two 12-Volt flooded in parallel is that you only have 6 waters to check versus 12. Itís so minor though that itís hardly worth considering. If going with maintenance free AGM even that makes no difference.
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Old 04-30-2020, 05:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by tn-camper View Post
I am considering a battery upgrade from a group 29 lead-acid to group 31 lithium in my 2016 FE-22 class C. Space does not appear to be an issue as both are about the same size. Is there a capacity issue with the battery controller?
Issues you should consider include whether your alternator can charge lithium batteries at correct/preferred/ideal voltage, whether your RVís converter has a lithium charge profile option, or a custom one you can program, and if camping in very cold weather, if the battery will operate properly when installed outside as most RV batteries are. Lithium iron phosphate batteries (if thatís what youíre considering) that Iíve seen on new motorhomes are usually installed inside the heated and cooled space. Just a few things to consider, although there are probably others ó my 2 cents.
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Old 04-30-2020, 05:21 PM   #19
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Aria 3401
State: Arkansas
Posts: 86
THOR #12542
Is it possible that 6V batteries having half as many, larger cells than 12V batteries of equivalent case size allows for a cell design that tolerates deep discharge better? I'm wondering if this is why golf carts generally use banks of 6V batteries instead of 12V batteries.
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Old 04-30-2020, 05:54 PM   #20
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THOR #10434
Thanks. That is the information I was looking for.
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