|
01-18-2023, 11:04 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,651
THOR #13058
|
Stuck: Electrical Question with 30A 10-30R Flush Mount
I recently purchased a new 30amp receptacle because the older unit had poor connections when plugged in. The new receptacle is from the Orange store https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-S10/302480849
The Problem?
Leg 1 (Black) does not always have 120vac output in the receptacle. The Black wire feeding the receptacle has 123.1 vac when measured against the common that is connected to receptacle while the black wire is not connect but hanging off to the side. But when I insert the black wire, it shows no voltage or a significant voltage drop like 49 vac
What I have done?
I have tried reseating the black wire over and over again; it may show 120vac but a while later it drops. I have tried different receptacles and the behavior is the same. White wire has 123 vac and works fine.
What could possibly be the cause, or what should I try? It is connected to a 30 amp breaker that is about 1 year old. Both the Black and White wires always show 123 vac at the breaker even when the black has a voltage drop at the receptacle
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
|
|
|
01-18-2023, 11:13 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Tuscany 42GX
State: Missouri
Posts: 1,158
THOR #9178
|
Put a load on the wire and see what happens. Sounds like it could be induced voltage.
Sure the breaker is live? Load testing will prove what you have.
__________________
|
|
|
01-18-2023, 11:23 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,651
THOR #13058
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwmcguir
Put a load on the wire and see what happens. Sounds like it could be induced voltage.
Sure the breaker is live? Load testing will prove what you have.
|
Breaker is live and show solid voltage at the breaker panel when switched on.
The loose wire at the receptacle show 123vac for black and 123vac for red when measured against the same common.
The load I wish to apply has circuity to prevent it from powering up unless both legs show at least 110 vac. That is safety feature to prevent damage.
The voltmeter confirm no voltage on output of receptacle for L1 (black) despite having just confirmed good voltage before connecting.
I guess I could try to connect to a 110 vac receptacle to see if it works, but even if it did, it would not solve my problem because I need the 10-30R receptacle.
Not sure what Induced voltage may mean?
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
|
|
|
01-18-2023, 11:26 PM
|
#4
|
Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,389
THOR #7035
|
1 - Check the black wire connection back at the source (breaker box). Sounds like you have a poor connection there that drops voltage when loaded.
2 - 120 VAC at the white wire? That's a problem. You should have:
- 120 VAC from black to white or from black to ground.
- 0 VAC from white to ground.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
|
|
|
01-18-2023, 11:50 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,651
THOR #13058
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27
1 - Check the black wire connection back at the source (breaker box). Sounds like you have a poor connection there that drops voltage when loaded.
2 - 120 VAC at the white wire? That's a problem. You should have:
- 120 VAC from black to white or from black to ground.
- 0 VAC from white to ground.
|
Suggest #1:
I will pull the breaker panel apart and check that, last year I had to put in new 30 amp breaker and it solved the problem, but this time I am showing voltage on Black and Red wires at the other end at receptacle.
Suggest #2
Let me clarify as I may have confused for you to believe ... 2 - 120 VAC at the white wire? That's a problem. You should have:
- 120 VAC from black to white or from black to ground.
- 0 VAC from white to ground. I only have 3 wires
white - common
red - s/b 120 vac
black - s/b 120 vac
So yes when I measure the loose black wire to white common, I get 120vac.
But when I insert the black wire in the receptacle, it is as if the receptacle is a resistor or something and voltage drops to 50vac or 0vac
Note: There is no ground wire on this receptacle?
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 12:06 AM
|
#6
|
Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,389
THOR #7035
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman
Suggest #1:
I will pull the breaker panel apart and check that, last year I had to put in new 30 amp breaker and it solved the problem, but this time I am showing voltage on Black and Red wires at the other end at receptacle.
Suggest #2
Let me clarify as I may have confused for you to believe ... 2 - 120 VAC at the white wire? That's a problem. You should have:
- 120 VAC from black to white or from black to ground.
- 0 VAC from white to ground. I only have 3 wires
white - common
red - s/b 120 vac
black - s/b 120 vac
So yes when I measure the loose black wire to white common, I get 120vac.
But when I insert the black wire in the receptacle, it is as if the receptacle is a resistor or something and voltage drops to 50vac or 0vac
Note: There is no ground wire on this receptacle?
|
What's confusing is that in an RV forum you are talking about a 3-wire 240 VAC receptacle that no RV should plug into.
What are you measuring from black to red when the black wire is in the receptacle? It should be 240 VAC.
What are your voltage measurements in the breaker panel when you have the drop at the receptacle? Each leg to common and leg to leg.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 12:27 AM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,651
THOR #13058
|
Problem Solved!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27
1 - Check the black wire connection back at the source (breaker box). Sounds like you have a poor connection there that drops voltage when loaded.
|
Damn the Ace has Aced another one. This was it.
I pulled the wires out of the breaker and the black one had a poor connection. I assume it was related to the bad contacts on the old receptacle that I had replaced.
I guess it is like a battery that may show 12vdc but not be capable of supply a load. It is working as expected now. I did not electrocute myself so you and The Tuscany Guy can breathe easier knowing I will be around a tad bit longer
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 12:34 AM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2011 FW Hurricane 33T
State: England
Posts: 1,296
THOR #16471
|
A 30A 10-30R is commonly called a "dryer outlet" and is non-grounding.
Some are wondering why you are using that on a 50A RV?
__________________
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 12:36 AM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,651
THOR #13058
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27
What's confusing is that in an RV forum you are talking about a 3-wire 240 VAC receptacle that no RV should plug into.
What are you measuring from black to red when the black wire is in the receptacle? It should be 240 VAC.
What are your voltage measurements in the breaker panel when you have the drop at the receptacle? Each leg to common and leg to leg.
|
Funny thing is that I may have been confused but you obviously were not.
But FWIW, the breaker panel never showed any voltage drop, not even on the other end of the wire that would plug into receptacle. What lwmcguir was asking to do to apply a load; was in effect being done just by making contact with the receptacle.
I have 123vac every where now and it is working like a champ. I have been fighting this all day and you guys nail it in less 5 minutes. Incredible.
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 12:45 AM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,651
THOR #13058
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldWEB
A 30A 10-30R is commonly called a "dryer outlet" and is non-grounding.
Some are wondering why you are using that on a 50A RV?
|
I am not. Didn't know principles of why 120vac coming out of one leg given the breaker was hot was was different. See solution above which was actually with the breaker wiring / contact.
Thanks
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 01:25 AM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Thor Ace 33.1
State: Illinois
Posts: 1,266
THOR #20274
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman
I am not. Didn't know principles of why 120vac coming out of one leg given the breaker was hot was was different. See solution above which was actually with the breaker wiring / contact.
Thanks
|
This is the wiring diagram I found, ground, neutral and hot
__________________
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 01:52 AM
|
#12
|
Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,389
THOR #7035
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Johnson
This is the wiring diagram I found, ground, neutral and hot
|
Not applicable to this thread.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 07:36 AM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Chateau 24F
State: Ohio
Posts: 4,186
THOR #16721
|
So... this is NOT an RV receptacle...
What I'm reading from a couple electricians forums is that receptacle type was "retired" in the mid 1990s. It's essentially an old-style ungrounded dryer outlet. I'd be careful with 240v ... 2 hots and neutral. Not sure why it's ungrounded??
Please excuse me if I've misread something...
__________________
Be creative, and have a fun life...
...and don't be an @**hole! -Ken Block
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 12:02 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Thor Ace 33.1
State: Illinois
Posts: 1,266
THOR #20274
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad
So... this is NOT an RV receptacle...
What I'm reading from a couple electricians forums is that receptacle type was "retired" in the mid 1990s. It's essentially an old-style ungrounded dryer outlet. I'd be careful with 240v ... 2 hots and neutral. Not sure why it's ungrounded??
Please excuse me if I've misread something...
|
That's why I was showing the diagram for an rv receptical, but ace said it wasn't applicable. Shouldn't have a red, black, neutral it should be black, white and green for ground, unless he's just mixing the colors. But they should be marked
__________________
|
|
|
01-19-2023, 01:37 PM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,651
THOR #13058
|
OP Root Cause has Identified and Fixed: Resolved Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad
So... this is NOT an RV receptacle...
What I'm reading from a couple electricians forums is that receptacle type was "retired" in the mid 1990s. It's essentially an old-style ungrounded dryer outlet. I'd be careful with 240v ... 2 hots and neutral. Not sure why it's ungrounded??
Please excuse me if I've misread something...
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Johnson
That's why I was showing the diagram for an rv receptical, but ace said it wasn't applicable. Shouldn't have a red, black, neutral it should be black, white and green for ground, unless he's just mixing the colors. But they should be marked
|
You guys are both missing posts from The Ace & Old Web, #6, #8, #10, #12, not to mention #7 where issue was stated resolved.
Think of it like this, I just corrected loose wiring in breaker panel that is connected to my RV Port storage facility
Now I need to plan some time to get back up on my roof to wax it and the RV. Year 4 at twice a year it is a tad harder these days.
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 08:32 PM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Four Winds 22E
State: California
Posts: 125
THOR #27561
|
That is a dryer receptacle. Typically wired with two hot legs and a neutral. No one uses that anymore since it doesn't meet NEC and isn't grounded. Are you wiring it 120VAC or 240VAC? You got the wrong receptacle if you wanted 30A, 120VAC. See https://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/30am...for%20TRAILERS.
__________________
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 09:18 PM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,651
THOR #13058
|
Problem Solved
See post #7
Problem solved by ACE. Issue was fix within 30 minutes
Thanks all for chiming in, but this horse is dead or should be
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 09:57 PM
|
#18
|
Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,389
THOR #7035
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman
See post #7
Problem solved by ACE. Issue was fix within 30 minutes
Thanks all for chiming in, but this horse is dead or should be
|
Wait! Wut? People are supposed to read the thread before responding?
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|