use/store switch on Axis

billburt · 11-10-2016, 06:52 PM

2017 Thor axis 24.1. The coach disconnect switch (Use/Store sw) will, not switch battery to store position. Generator and shore power is off. No relay clicking noise when the switch is moved to either position. I checked the back of the use/store switch and there is no power to the center posts on the switch. I think there a 5a fuse between the Bird relay and the coach disconnect relay. I cant find it. Any Ideas??

The use/store sw had a tendency to stick in the use position. Might it have burnt out a fuse or the relay coil?

Larry · 11-10-2016, 08:41 PM

There's a reset breaker near the batteries on the left side and if it has gotten accidentally pressed, you won't have any power to your us/store switch. It is a small block with a red button or flag on it. Check to see if it has been pressed and needs to be pressed again to reset. It's like this on my 2015 Axis 24.1.

This thread might be of help:

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f17...oach-2782.html

billburt · 11-10-2016, 10:31 PM

There is a 100 amp bus black box on the rear wall of the battery compartment. It does have a red button and I pressed it several times but it doesn't appear to have any affect . I do have dc power to the coach (no generator or shore power on) and from the other link in your answer it appears that if that was tripped I would have no dc.

bevedfelker · 11-10-2016, 10:56 PM

Sounds like it is the electrical battery disconnect relays. I'm not sure where yours is but in the Vegas/Axis it is buried behind the ducts and pipes where the water heater by-pass is. I think jamiegeek or Ron&kay were the ones who acidentaly found ours.

scrubjaysnest · 11-10-2016, 11:29 PM

As I reported when I damaged my use/store switch there is a 5 amp fuse at the relay itself; the only way I could access it was to remove the distribution panel. House battery power from one side of the relay feeds power to the fuse which then feeds the use/store switch. Red wires on mine had the + power. White wires are ground and come from a ground buss beside the water heater in our unit.
The relay itself is a mechanical latching relay and has nothing to do with the B.I.R.D system.

bevedfelker · 11-10-2016, 11:58 PM

Scrub -- was the relay accessable by removing the grill in the hallway thst covers where the water heater bypass valves are. I know it is behind the converter, but someone here on the forum got to it from the access behind the grill. It wasn't easy but it was possible. Thought that might have been you.

billburt · 11-11-2016, 12:28 AM

The fuse I was referring to is the one I saw in Ed Felkers users guide. It was the block diagram on page 119 and was in a line from the coach disconnect relay that appeared to attach to the BIRD. I think it's the same one that scrubjay is referring to. Tomorrow I'll open the grill accessing the water heater and see if I can find the relay fuse. If not I'll remove the distribution panel. I'll update here If I was successful or not. Many thanks to all

scrubjaysnest · 11-11-2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bevedfelker

Scrub -- was the relay accessable by removing the grill in the hallway thst covers where the water heater bypass valves are. I know it is behind the converter, but someone here on the forum got to it from the access behind the grill. It wasn't easy but it was possible. Thought that might have been you.

With the grill removed, the water heater on ours blocks access to the relay. I'll try to get a pic today since I still have a lot of that open.

bevedfelker · 11-11-2016, 03:03 PM

What a design -- take the whole coach apart to change a 5 amp fuse. And then there is the opening a hole in the top of the dash to change a chassis battery. What were they thinking? Why couldn't the fuse holder be on the wire as it went through the area behind the bottom drawer under stove? Which is easier, removing the converter power distribution panel or the bottom drawer? Well I guess that was a rhetorical question.

vkb · 11-11-2016, 03:57 PM

If you must access the battery disconnect...it is behind the grill under the refrigerator, on our 2016 24.1 ..
It is attached to a particle board with wiring going both directions.
First, be sure to check to make sure you simply have not popped the breaker on the board under the refrigerator.

In addition..if your GFI is popped, you will experience the same symptoms.
Our GFI is in the bathroom, over the toilet.

Click image for larger version

Name: 3 24 16 disconnect 2.jpg
Views: 267
Size: 140.4 KB
ID: 3342

good luck ! keep us posted !

bevedfelker · 11-11-2016, 04:27 PM

OK -- it was Ron & Kay who posted the pic before and accessed the disconnect through the grill.

Ron/Kay -- did you see the in-line fuse going to the disconnect? Is it below the wiring shown on the pic, and if so -- how far below?

vkb · 11-11-2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bevedfelker

OK -- it was Ron & Kay who posted the pic before and accessed the disconnect through the grill.

Ron/Kay -- did you see the in-line fuse going to the disconnect? Is it below the wiring shown on the pic, and if so -- how far below?

Ed .. that is an old photo...taken when we had our issues, last winter.
Ron is not aware of an in-line fuse between the Disconnect and the Use/Store switch (he said anything is possible) .. but, none was detected at the time.
There is a breaker on the fuse panel under the refrigerator for that line.
And...that GFI should be checked...if it is popped, it will mirror the symptom he is having. (we had to reset it once, this summer,..had to use a flashlight to find it on the outlet above the toilet)

bevedfelker · 11-11-2016, 05:03 PM

Ron/Kay -- thanks. This disconnect is not shown anywhere in the Thor diagrams and your description and picture was the first time I became aware of its ACTUAL location. I just did another revision on my manual with a description and your picture showing it. Here is the link to the revised manual:

https://1drv.ms/w/s!AiYx6DLSeiiP6UNyy_VYGDO0BW6L

I think billburt was looking for the 5amp fuse shown on the schematic of the attached BIRD/Trombetta data located between the BIRD and coach battery disconnect relay (attached).

billburt · 11-11-2016, 05:54 PM

I found the relay and the fuse holder pictured in VKP's picture. The relay is mounted on fiberboard that is on the forward side of the water heater. The relay faces forward. The fuse and fuse holder are attached to two red wires hanging from the relay. There is approx. 6 inches of play in the wire so it can be reached and the fuse changed going through the vent panel now that I know where to look. I couldn't locate the fuse holder until I removed the power panel under the fridg. The fuse looked good but tested bad on my continuity meter. I don't have a replacement handy but will post after I install a new one.

2017 Thor Axis 24.1

vkb · 11-11-2016, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billburt

I found the relay and the fuse holder pictured in VKP's picture. The relay is mounted on fiberboard that is on the forward side of the water heater. The relay faces forward. The fuse and fuse holder are attached to two red wires hanging from the relay. There is approx. 6 inches of play in the wire so it can be reached and the fuse changed going through the vent panel now that I know where to look. I couldn't locate the fuse holder until I removed the power panel under the fridg. The fuse looked good but tested bad on my continuity meter. I don't have a replacement handy but will post after I install a new one.

2017 Thor Axis 24.1

Happy to hear you found it. It has been over 6 months since we addressed our issue...and our Axis is in storage, so not readily available to take a look.

Let us know if you need further assistance.

bevedfelker · 11-11-2016, 06:38 PM

As John Hannibal on A-Team used to say, "I love when a plan comes together."

Tom N3EQF · 11-11-2016, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billburt

There is a 100 amp bus black box on the rear wall of the battery compartment. It does have a red button and I pressed it several times but it doesn't appear to have any affect . I do have dc power to the coach (no generator or shore power on) and from the other link in your answer it appears that if that was tripped I would have no dc.

Just in case, check that 100 amp breaker again. The RED button "trips" the breaker into the open (no connection) position. If you are hitting the red button and the breaker is already tripped, you won't see any difference.

On the breaker there is a small kind of lever or "flag" that lowers when the breaker is open. To reset the breaker, you must push that lever back UP into position. You can see the lever in the attached picture - it is usually colored yellow or black.

scrubjaysnest · 11-11-2016, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkb

If you must access the battery disconnect...it is behind the grill under the refrigerator, on our 2016 24.1 ..
It is attached to a particle board with wiring going both directions.
First, be sure to check to make sure you simply have not popped the breaker on the board under the refrigerator.

In addition..if your GFI is popped, you will experience the same symptoms.
Our GFI is in the bathroom, over the toilet.

Attachment 3342

good luck ! keep us posted !

I see what is different between yours and ours, on ours the grill is under the closet and the distribution panel is under the refrig. Our 2016 24.1 has a March of this year manufacture date.
We also don't have a breaker in that location. We have two 100 amp breakers, one for charging the house batteries near the cranking battery, goes to the Trombetta. The second feeds the ginny to crank it. There is a 50 amp located on the back side of the battery box for the house batteries. This goes to the use/store relay.

GFI is an AC device and should not have a thing to do with the DC side.

scrubjaysnest · 11-11-2016, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom N3EQF

Just in case, check that 100 amp breaker again. The RED button "trips" the breaker into the open (no connection) position. If you are hitting the red button and the breaker is already tripped, you won't see any difference.

On the breaker there is a small kind of lever or "flag" that lowers when the breaker is open. To reset the breaker, you must push that lever back UP into position. You can see the lever in the attached picture - it is usually colored yellow or black.

That breaker doesn't look anything like the one between our run/store relay and the batteries. Ours is round and no flag to indicate it has tripped; it is also 50 amp. The 100 amp near it feeds the ginny for cranking.

billburt · 11-12-2016, 05:48 PM

Replaced that 5a fuse at the coach disconnect relay. Use/store switch (ac power off) still doesn't activate the relay. Removed the new fuse and checked to see if it was blown and it wasn't.
I checked the voltage on both sides of the relay and got 12 volts both sides which is normal if the relay is closed.

I also checked the 100 amp breaker mounted at the rear of the coach battery box. It had 12v on both sides so it isn't tripped.
Don't know where to go next..
Could the coach disconnect relay be bad? Stuck in the connect position? The use/store switch was sticking in the use position .

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