Axis/Vegas or other small A - Page 2

Chance · 10-12-2015, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainfire

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Spartan also has plenty of experience of their own fabricating low floor frames for cutaway cabs (and that's in a more demanding RWD application).

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Rainfire, it appears to me that motorhome manufacturers are going out of their way to increase the height of Class As so I wouldn't expect much effort suddenly going in the opposite direction. They must feel we want tall units for various reasons. I don't personally get it but manufacturers must do market research.

The Spartan kneeling low-floor chassis has floor cross members and outriggers mounted (appear bolted on picture) at frame-rail height, which looks like it would lower the floor of a Class A based on a van chassis roughly 4 inches or so at most. That would still leave the floor much higher than typical Euro front-wheel-drive-based Class As that Hymer and others manufacture.

The chassis weight ratings, power, and towing capacities of these Euro motorhomes are also very different than what we have in US, and American buyers may not warm-up to the Euro concepts.

I would like to see any manufacturer offer a smaller and simpler Class A but I'm not holding my breath, especially now that gasoline is so cheap.

rainfire · 10-13-2015, 05:18 AM

Sorry for the continued thread hijacking. This has nothing to do with the op's ponderings about smaller Class A motorhomes (although it might eventually), but after badgering Hymer repeatedly over the past several weeks for more concrete info on their plans for the U.S. market, I finally got a response:

We are currently planning to deliver the vehicle [i.e., the Grand Canyon] in Q1 2016 to dealers. We are also introducing a little later that year the Yellowstone, which will have twin-beds. We have many other products in Europe and are currently finalizing our plans to bring more products to the US in the future. We are very excited that Hymer is entering the US Market!

If you want to stay tuned on the status please go to www.hymer-usa.com or join our facebook page.

I hope this answers all your questions at this point. Have a great evening.

With best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Dr. Markus Oestreich
Erwin Hymer Group USA
Senior Project Manager

Chance · 10-13-2015, 12:08 PM

Thanks much for information.

When Hymer first started discussing bringing a couple of models to US, I recall the Yellowstone was one of them (it's my favorite National Park). For my taste the Euro version utilizes too much of the available space in a small van just for sleeping. That just makes everything else in motorhome too cramped in my opinion.

That's not to say they won't revise the floorplan for US market.

Chance · 10-13-2015, 12:18 PM

A clever use of space in a Class B that Hymer and others use in Europe is to install a pop-top over a high-roof van, thus creating two levels for sleeping. You have full walk-around headroom under while kids/grandkids (or adults) are in overhead bed. It's the best approach I've seen that allows four people to travel and sleep in a Class B.

In European web site it's listed under Grand Canyon, which I believe is different than ours in that pop-top design.

JamieGeek · 10-13-2015, 12:28 PM

Chance, that last one looks like a Road Trek or a Sportsmobile:
Roadtrek
Sportsmobile Custom Camper Vans - Your Home Away From Home

Chance · 10-13-2015, 02:40 PM

Jamie, that van is the new Ducato which is the same as our ProMaster which Roadtrek uses for Zion, or Sportsmobile uses for custom builds. The only difference is that it has the new front face that we should get in a year or so. And in my opinion looks a lot better than present ProMaster.

I've not seen a Roadtrek with a pop-up roof, and Sportsmobile has stated that they only plan to add the pop-up roof to the low-roof ProMasters. That could change I suppose.

There is one custom van builder, I believe it's Colorado Custom Vans, that has stated they will install a pop-up roof on a high-roof ProMaster.

For me these are not good options because if I get a van in lieu of a Class A I'd want to park it at home and these pop-up roofs, especially on top of a tall van, would draw too much attention from Home Owners' Association.

rainfire · 10-13-2015, 06:10 PM

Incidentally, Dethleffs, maker of the evan I pictured above, is part of the Erwin Hymer Group, as are some other European motorhome brands, so I hope Hymer USA will be able to appropriate design ideas from their sister companies if they see fit.

Chance · 10-13-2015, 07:46 PM

It's unfortunate that we don't have a super-sized van on which to build Class Bs that could rival smaller Class As. Until recently Mercedes manufactured the heavy-duty Vario van which was often used to build campers in Europe and other markets. Being body-on-frame they were also available as 4WD which made great expedition-type motorhomes.

One model that caught my eye due to interior design and finish as it appears in pictures was built by McLaren Sports.

This rear wrap-around lounge and/or dinette area would be a great option for the Axis/Vegas 24.1. I don't see why Thor can't rework the rear twin beds to also double as a lounge area.

Chance · 10-13-2015, 07:59 PM

By the way, because the van is so much larger than most, at the very back there is a large outside storage area that probably equals some smaller Class As in total volume. An outside compartment large enough for bikes is a feature missing on most American motorhomes.

**EA37TS** · 10-14-2015, 01:00 PM

While returning from my trip over the long weekend I pulled into a rest area off I40 and spotted a small RV, class A parked in on the car side (I was with the trucks). The RV was about 24 or 25 feet long, on a MB chassis and had what appeared to be a travel trailer entrance door by the driver's seat.

It turns out it is made by Itasca and they consider it a Class A diesel.

JamieGeek · 10-14-2015, 01:25 PM

Was that a Winnebego Via or Reyo?

Reyo Website
Via Website

The 25T floorplan is nearly identical to the Vegas/Axis 24.1

Chance · 10-14-2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

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The 25T floorplan is nearly identical to the Vegas/Axis 24.1

Yeah, the Vegas/Axis is nearly a copy of the 25T.

We looked at the 25T and liked it, including the optional driver's door, but we like the Axis better for the most part for our type of use.

The Reyo is more expensive and appears to be more polished -- but the Axis seems a better value.

The chassis is only 11,030 pounds.

Maintenance and parts costs on Mercedes Sprinter is reportedly higher.

Service locations for Mercedes RVs are limited compared to Ford.

One thing that stands out to me is that the rear track may be the right width for a van, but looks too narrow under a 90-inch-wide motorhome. The Axis is wider and taller, so fuel economy is not as good as that of Reyo.

**EA37TS** · 10-14-2015, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Was that a Winnebego Via or Reyo?

Reyo Website
Via Website

The 25T floorplan is nearly identical to the Vegas/Axis 24.1

That is the one. The one I saw was actually badged/stenciled Itasca on the drivers side rear, which is owned and manufactured by Winnie.

groswald · 10-14-2015, 07:05 PM

We looked at a Via after purchasing our Axis. Fit and finish is vastly superior in the Via. It just looks crisper and cleaner. The bathroom uses space better as well. Overall, we prefer the Axis, though. The Via felt kinda sterile, where the Axis is comfortable.

The "twin" beds in the Via are non-standard being both short and narrow. We like the full-size twins in the Axis - neither of us is a happy camper when we don't sleep well. After adding 2" memory-foam toppers from Costco I sleep better in the Axis than I do at home. Gotta fix that...

The Merc chassis limitations pretty much seal the deal. With the higher initial cost, much higher maintenance, and lower load and tow limits it wouldn't work for us. It's not a bad rig at all, just not right for us.

Regards,

Randy

Mr Sunshine · 10-14-2015, 11:38 PM

I really wanted to purchase a Winnebago, but choked on the Via's list price of $140K. The Travato is gas and easier on our budget, but limited on storage and living space.

I've had diesels, and remember the joy of higher mileage and the pain of fuel that costs more than gas, too. Diesels are great for rigs that cover a lot of miles and don't sit all that much. Fits some of our friends perfectly. For us, the Via 25Q would have almost fit, but it would have been foolish to spend the extra money the diesel commands. Even when you factor in getting some of it back when you eventually sell it.

I would agree that the quality is at a higher level than our Vegas. Just wasn't worth it to us.

Chance · 10-16-2015, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

I really wanted to purchase a Winnebago, but choked on the Via's list price of $140K. The Travato is gas and easier on our budget, but limited on storage and living space.

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Did you look at both Travato floorplans? If so I was wondering what you thought of the newer one with twin beds and center aisle compared to the original?

We liked the Travato's small footprint making it possible to park it like a regular van/vehicle, but didn't care for lack of living space, access to a corner bed, or the generator being way too close to ground. The minivan transmission in a vehicle that size is a problem for me also. Storage space itself wasn't as big a problem for us because we travel very light.

I guess it's hard to make any van feel as large as a small Class A due to limited living space; unless a lot of content is left out to improve openness. A Travato is a little over 500 cubic feet behind the cab seats, whereas an Axis may be closer to 900 cubic feet. Makes sense that an Axis must feel much bigger.

Mr Sunshine · 10-17-2015, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chance

Did you look at both Travato floorplans? If so I was wondering what you thought of the newer one with twin beds and center aisle compared to the original?

We liked the Travato's small footprint making it possible to park it like a regular van/vehicle, but didn't care for lack of living space, access to a corner bed, or the generator being way too close to ground. The minivan transmission in a vehicle that size is a problem for me also. Storage space itself wasn't as big a problem for us because we travel very light.

I guess it's hard to make any van feel as large as a small Class A due to limited living space; unless a lot of content is left out to improve openness. A Travato is a little over 500 cubic feet behind the cab seats, whereas an Axis may be closer to 900 cubic feet. Makes sense that an Axis must feel much bigger.

Yes to all that. The first production Travato with the twin beds was at the Tampa show last winter. DW and I spent a long time in and around it, trying to figure out how we could make it work for us. We want our lawn chairs, mat and a small table. A few tools are required. We usually pick up a few things along our travels, and need clothes for varied weather. Whoops! Already out of room and likely overweight!

We would have kept our 8 year old Class A before buying anything with a corner bed. Towing capacity of at least 2500# required. For about the same money as a Travato, the Vegas/Axis gives us a lot more living area, too. We can and have traveled super lite, but our 25.2 allows us to be quite comfortable.

Everybody's travel style is different, but we haven't seen anything in the Vegas/Axis price range that gives us the space, storage and a walk-around queen bed.

A friend just had a challenge with parts and service for his Mercedes diesel Wbago. The European coach is stylish and intriguing, but parts and service could be a nightmare!

DW loves our Vegas. You know what they say about, "If mama's happy...."

Chance · 10-17-2015, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

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A friend just had a challenge with parts and service for his Mercedes diesel Wbago. The European coach is stylish and intriguing, but parts and service could be a nightmare!

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I'd rather not have a Mercedes or a diesel for that reason, and unfortunately a large percentage of small motorhomes are built on Sprinter platform. The Sprinter chassis is used on many Bs, B+, compact Cs, and even the small Winnebago Class As discussed above. Eliminating Sprinters removes a lot of compact motorhomes from list.

Below that in size we have the front-wheel-drive ProMaster which can make a nice B but is too light for much more than that. The 9,350 pound GVWR seems too limiting for the B+ segment, offering almost no cargo capacity or towing.

The new Ford Transit isn't that much better than the ProMaster for Class B+ or C motorhomes because of limited GVWR. Thor is using Transits now but appears limited to diesel. Plus I don't like the Transit anyway.

nothappy · 10-18-2015, 09:26 PM

Have a 2015 axis with many issues, bathroom sink and shower drain into black water tank, only thing going to grey tank is kitchen sink, the sewer drain points up so you can't fully drain the sewer tanks TV in living area doesn't play DVD's
Quality Control doesn't exist.
over 7 months in shop, that should say it all.

bevedfelker · 10-18-2015, 10:36 PM

Not happy -- the sewer drain hookup that points up rotates down. Remove the big round plug under the drain hookup and you can run the sewer hose under the coach, up through the hole to the tank drain hookup.

Also there should be a 110VAC plug and an HDMI cable on the top shelf of the cabinet above the sink. Easy to hookup a DVD or blue ray there. Goes to tv above entry door.

Check your bedroom tv. Does it have a built-in DVD player. Mine does.

If you send me your email address (bevedfelker@live.com) I'll forward you an owners manual and checklists compiled from suggestions and tips on this forum. It had lots of info I'm sure your dealer probably never mentioned.

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