Axis/Vegas competitor?

[Chance]

Not everyone wants to be hauling lead.

A couple of 20 ~ 25 pound bikes plus a 30-pound tandem takes up a lot of room, yet not much weight. Add a couple of large plastic containers with bike gear and spare parts and you may be up to 100 pounds, but needing lots of cubic feet — and preferably in large centralized compartments that can hold large items. Hence why Europeans value a large rear garage. Their motorhomes are super light by our standards.

If I wanted to reduce some serious weight, I’d start by eliminating slides that can add 1,000 pounds or more. That’s a lot of toys worth of weight.

[Muggs]

In my situation. The Axon says 800 lbs tongue weight. Current Vegas is limited to 500. I had to move racecar back on trailer to achieve. Mass of Vegas keeps it handling fine. A large portion of spares are carried in big back comport mentioned with spare.

Interesting to note when I weighed unit, with trailer was 18,300. Front axle 4500, rear axle 8300 and trailer 5500. No trailer was 4950 front, 7750 rear. I move heavy stuff from front compartments to lighten front.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Muggs

In my situation. The Axon says 800 lbs tongue weight. Current Vegas is limited to 500. I had to move racecar back on trailer to achieve. Mass of Vegas keeps it handling fine. A large portion of spares are carried in big back comport mentioned with spare.

Interesting to note when I weighed unit, with trailer was 18,300. Front axle 4500, rear axle 8300 and trailer 5500. No trailer was 4950 front, 7750 rear. I move heavy stuff from front compartments to lighten front.

Wow, wonder how/why our Axis is lighter than yours? Less things? (ours was 4700 front, 6700 rear, 11400 total). This was full fuel, full propane, full water, empty waste, packed with our stuff and all 3 of us riding in it. (Explains why Thor was able to get away with the E-350 chassis for the 24.1..)

I need to scale it again, with the recliners I'd bet its a bit above those numbers now.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Wow, wonder how/why our Axis is lighter than yours? Less things? (ours was 4700 front, 6700 rear, 11400 total). ....cut....

That’s impressive by modern standards.

The only motorhome I find “close” to your Axis in design remains the Winnebago Reyo/Via. The 25T has same floorplan and same overall length, so a direct competitor in many ways. But due to Mercedes Sprinter Diesel chassis and associated much higher cost, even that isnt a direct competitor. Plus chassis is limited to 11,030 pounds and also can’t tow as much as Axis.

For now the Axis/Vegas appears to have their own niche.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

I cringe when people start getting hot and wet over how much storage a given unit offers. People put way too much stuff in their units (and never use it) and this extra weight contributes to many performance problems....I think! I met a service tech at a CG a couple years ago and this is exactly what he said...over weighted campers and abused tire pressure accounts for 90% of road problems. Be careful.

With 17 cubic feet of storage under the rig: we're pretty safe!
...Right up until I get done loading the garage...



http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1527693736

[Muggs]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Wow, wonder how/why our Axis is lighter than yours? Less things? (ours was 4700 front, 6700 rear, 11400 total). This was full fuel, full propane, full water, empty waste, packed with our stuff and all 3 of us riding in it. (Explains why Thor was able to get away with the E-350 chassis for the 24.1..)

I need to scale it again, with the recliners I'd bet its a bit above those numbers now.

Ours is a 24.1 of e-450. I carry a fair amount of spares for racecar in back big compartment along with full size spare. I also carry jacks/tools/battery chargers/compressors needed to change tires on either RV, racecar or trailer. We always keep water/propane full and usually carry extra water for overnight trips. I have stuff stashed almost everywhere along with clothes, towels and shoes for 5 days.

I am still under GVWR by fair amount. Am considering adding 2nd a/c above bedroom as a spare does not hurt and any weight beyond rear axle helps close to overloaded front axle.

Maybe engineers stayed with shorter wheelbase on some models to ease front axle load.

[Bob Denman]

Muggs,
Your rig is carrying more stuff, so it's been building up muscle!
Muscle weighs more than fat!

[Muggs]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Muggs,
Your rig is carrying more stuff, so it's been building up muscle!
Muscle weighs more than fat!

Definitely. I race an older Camaro. Carry spare starter, Alternator, fuel pump, carberator, Ignition box, ignition coil, shifter cable, solenoids, relays, etc. The spare for the Vegas weighs close to 90 lbs. I carry a 2.5 ton trolley jack for trailer and racecar. A 12 ton with blocks for RV. All this plus oil, aerosols and trans fluid. The trailer has car, ramps, cheap generator, spare tires for trailer and spare set of mounted slicks. Long duration races I carry two 15 gallon open top water drums.

The e-450 24.1 has a corgo capacity of 3,200 lbs. This gave it nod over ACE and Sunstar we compared it to.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Muggs

Ours is a 24.1 of e-450. I carry a fair amount of spares for racecar in back big compartment along with full size spare. I also carry jacks/tools/battery chargers/compressors needed to change tires on either RV, racecar or trailer. We always keep water/propane full and usually carry extra water for overnight trips. I have stuff stashed almost everywhere along with clothes, towels and shoes for 5 days.

I am still under GVWR by fair amount. Am considering adding 2nd a/c above bedroom as a spare does not hurt and any weight beyond rear axle helps close to overloaded front axle.

Maybe engineers stayed with shorter wheelbase on some models to ease front axle load.

LOL! yeah our stuff is usual camping stuff: table, chairs, BBQ, outside rug, etc. no spare either... (lots of volume with little mass)

[Muggs]

Oddly enough, deadweight seems to have little impact on fuel use. I lose maybe .5 MPG depending on number of stops. Acceleration is weaker with trailer, but still keeps up great with traffic. Gearing combination works real well. I average 9 to 11 in flat Florida pretty much.

Worst millage was shakedown to Disney, up to 85 MPH kills fuel consumption and causes so much wind noise that I cannot hear wife tell me its loud.

[The Gritz Carlton]

"causes so much wind noise that I cannot hear wife"



Sounds like it's running perfect!!!

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Muggs

Oddly enough, deadweight seems to have little impact on fuel use. I lose maybe .5 MPG depending on number of stops. Acceleration is weaker with trailer, but still keeps up great with traffic. Gearing combination works real well. I average 9 to 11 in flat Florida pretty much.

Once you get it all rolling: the weight is no longer an issue.

Until you actually have to try and stop it!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

.....cut.....

Thus being a smaller motorhome (26' for the small one) on an F-53 gets you an extra 25 gallons of gas (80 vs 55) and a bit more fresh and waste tank capacities. Not to mention slightly larger insides because the F-53 is wider.

I’d be very interested in a small and high-quality Class A, especially if just larger than a Class B so it could occassionally sleep 4, so I took a look at the smaller Axon beyond the chassis difference, and for me it doesn’t measure up to the Axis/Vegas in other ways.

Sorry I can only post one picture at a time.

First, window shades look very basic by comparison to Axis.

[Chance]

There is no trim around TV. Axis looks finished much better.

[Chance]

Rear of RV looks lower budget, right down to bumper. Also notice how few windows the motorhome has (or doesn’t have). There isn’t one in bed slide behind bed or on sides. Looks very dark, although there is one at rear of coach. I suppose some like it very dark to sleep.

[Chance]

Which begs the question, how many buyers would be willing to pay a little extra for an Axis/Vegas to include a rear cap which I think improves appearance significantly?

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Which begs the question, how many buyers would be willing to pay a little extra for an Axis/Vegas to include a rear cap which I think improves appearance significantly?

Axis/Vegas doesn't have a rear cap like the pictured Windsport. Axis/Vegas rear is just a wall panel with a small curved section at the top. (That curved section is pretty cheaply done and prone to leaks--made with a very flimsy material.)

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Axis/Vegas doesn't have a rear cap like the pictured Windsport. Axis/Vegas rear is just a wall panel with a small curved section at the top. (That curved section is pretty cheaply done and prone to leaks--made with a very flimsy material.)

....cut....

Any idea what a molded rear cap would add in cost? I’d guess it’s much less than $1,000, which I’d pay to improve appearance like on the Winnebago Via and Reyo. Granted, full body paint also adds to upscale appearance (not that I like this paint scheme — it’s too busy for me).

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Any idea what a molded rear cap would add in cost? I’d guess it’s much less than $1,000, which I’d pay to improve appearance like on the Winnebago Via and Reyo. Granted, full body paint also adds to upscale appearance (not that I like this paint scheme — it’s too busy for me).

Nope, have no idea what a rear cap would add (or remove--they are prefabricated perhaps less labor to install).

[Pete'sMH]

Take a look at the Winnebago 27 ft Vista LX with full body paint (or even without full body paint). Or even just the “regular” Vista.