Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Tech Forums > Towing | Hitches and Toads
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-11-2014, 07:26 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 31F
State: Georgia
Posts: 166
THOR #631
Towed Brake Systems Question

Dear Members,
I've been doing some internet and face to face research on different systems to use as supplemental brakes for our Ford Focus. I've looked at Brake Buddy, Invisibrake, and others such as Ready Brute tow bars that incorporate a supplemental brake system as a part of their tow bars (this is a slide and cable system that is quite simple).
But I'm wondering now, how to any of these systems operate without the power brakes being activated? Do they just apply more force? The towed motor isn't running and in my case the battery must be disconnected, so I don't see how any system, including Brake Buddy could operate without applying some pretty strong force to the brake pedal.
I'd appreciate any input you may have.
John
Athens, GA
__________________

__________________
JDHoge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 07:32 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Brand: Crossroads
State: Wisconsin
Posts: 651
THOR #124
John, I'm curious as to why you think it would be needed at all?
I have had numerous toads in the past. None of them had any supplemental assistance for braking. I never once seen where it was needed.
Have the laws changed in recent years and this is now required?
__________________

__________________
Lloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 08:37 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 31F
State: Georgia
Posts: 166
THOR #631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
John, I'm curious as to why you think it would be needed at all?
I have had numerous toads in the past. None of them had any supplemental assistance for braking. I never once seen where it was needed.
Have the laws changed in recent years and this is now required?
Well, maybe it was just an abundance of caution. I've towed a small popup without brakes but thought that a 3,000 pound car might need to have brakes. In addition I've been told that many states require supplemental brake systems. But maybe that just for heavier tows?
__________________
JDHoge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 11:02 AM   #4
Junior Member
 
gone camping's Avatar
 
Brand: Crossroads
Model: Rushmore Monticello
State: Ohio
Posts: 28
THOR #524
I agree with Lloyd.
__________________
2012 Ram 3500
2014 Rushmore Monticello
gone camping is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 12:50 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
FW28z's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2011 Four Winds 28Z
State: Michigan
Posts: 1,274
THOR #531
I have been researching a braking system for my toad, and here is what I have found.

Essentially all states have a 3,000lb towing limit without requiring brakes, but a few states are 1,500lbs.

My vehicle is around 3,100lbs, so I suppose the laws apply to me. As safety and liability conscious I am, I am definitely going to use a braking system in my toad.

Also, I plan on traveling from Michigan to Florida (my youngest son lives there) with the RV, so I definitely want toad brakes going over those steep hills some call mountains. For that reason alone, I am going with a braking system.

While the laws in most states are written for trailers, and not specifically towed vehicles, the Federal DoT definition of a trailer includes a toad. As well, the scuttlebutt is some states have been re-writing the towing laws to specifically include toads.

Here is a brakedown on the laws by state. There is no reference on this page as to what the law document is, but further research would probably reveal such information:

Towing Laws

Trailer brake requirements are also typically published in your owner's manual of the towing vehicle, and most of those are way under 3,000lbs. So at minimum, there could be a liability issue should you wipe out a family of kids on the highway if you were disregarding the owner's manual information whether or not you are complying with the state law or not. And of course, you don't want to do yourself in as well.

So I see it as a safety issue.

I am about to buy a brake system for my setup. So admittedly, my response comes from research on the topic and not actual use, so take my comments at that level.

For your other question, it is true the vacuum brake boost will not work when the engine is off. However, federal safety law requires the brakes to work manually without boost, and that the pressure applied is within the realm of the typical driver.

So I don't think the pressure required to apply the brakes without the vacuum boost is all that more than with it.

Also, most brake systems have an initiation sequence wherein it depresses the brake several times (while the engine is off). This is actually done to purge the vacuum from the system. This ensures that the application of the brakes are consistent with each depression of the brake system.

Some of the braking horror stories I have heard (brakes locking up, flat spotting tires, no brakes applied, etc), are at least explained away by the manufacturers in that the owner did not to the initiation cycle to purge the vacuum from the brake system.

To me, that sounds plausible, as I did observe in a couple of videos that the brake cylinder (from the brake system) changes the distance it travels each time it is operated when purging the system. That only means one thing to me - the vacuum is being purged from the system (unless the brakes are bad on the car).

I have looked at several of the different brake systems, and while I have not yet ordered one, I am getting close. I also talked to Blue Ox when I was at Hershey earlier this week.

The three systems I have been looking at are the Brake Buddy, Blue Ox Patriot, and the RViBrake2. I want a portable system rather than a built-in system.

All three systems depress a plunger into the brake pedal and use an accelerometer to determine when to depress the brake. They all claim to be proportional (that is, if you brake soft, the brake system brakes the toad softly... if you brake hard, the toad brakes hard).

Other - older system are not proportional, which means you have to set the brake pressure manually, which may be too much or not enough.

The RViBrake2 is designed by the same person that invented the Brake Buddy. He sold the company a few years and had to sign a non-compete agreement, which has since expired. So he designed the RViBrake system. Whether this is good or bad, I have no idea.

Both of these systems use hydraulics, and include a small pump in them. So there is a short delay between actuations wherein the hydraulic system has to be recovered.

The Patriot uses an electric cylinder, and while this means there is no recovery time, the response time of the cylinder is very slow in comparison to the hydraulic system.

The Patriot also has an internal backup battery, which means the brake will still work (at least for awhile) even if the vehicle battery is completely drained.

The RViBrake2 system proports to be able to use a battery for up to 3 days without fully discharging it... however, I am a bit skeptical about that (I guess you need to emphasize "up to"), and some owners have reported a full day's use.

Regardless, I bought a Stanley portable battery system (one of those McGuyver tools that has a jump start battery along with an air compressor, light, etc). I also plan on installing a battery charge system from the coach so that it can keep the battery topped off by the engine alternator.

At this point, I am leaning towards the RViBrake2. My wife likes that it is small and lightweight, as she may very well be the person removing it when we arrive at our destination. I don't care one way or the other, I just want the best.

I also like the idea that the RViBrake, since it is so flat, depresses against the seat frame/floor pan, which is different from the other systems that depress against the seat cushion. Since the cushions tend to depress when that happens, they might not brake as accurately.

I also like that the RViBrake has outstanding service, and when they recently updated the RViBrake to the RViBrake2, existing owners could upgrade for $100 plus their old unit. That says a lot to me.

Also I like that the RViBrake2 has an external antenna, which while it takes a few seconds to deploy, should ensure better communication with the remote in the coach.

Well, sorry for being so long winded about this, but now you know about everything I know about these systems. It is easy to get a lot of info these days from the internet (you tube, and other places), but the same old caveat applies - be a bit skeptical about what you hear, and you should be able to sift through the chaffe and come up with the answer.

For example, one criticism of the RVI system is after stopping at a rest stop mid day and starting the engine (which some tow vehicles require), the RVI system no longer works properly. However, RVI says you have to perform the initiation sequence every time you start the engine to bleed the vacuum again, and it seems highly likely to me that is not being done by some complaining about that issue.
__________________
The only thing that works on a RV is the owner...
FW28z is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
towed brake systems

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2