Lithium Package At Lower Cost

[The_Breeze]

600 - 800 kwh? I guess I should be looking at 100ah battle borns differently than FLA? I bought 4 of these and married it to a 2.5kw inverter: https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...cycle-battery/

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Typically with Lithium only coaches they put another alternator on the main engine to aid in charging up the batteries. Thus you wouldn't have to drive somewhere every 4 days, just run the engine for some time. The bonus here is that the main engine is usually a lot quieter than a generator.

That is what Winnebago has done with the Ekko. There are two alternators, although WBO calls the second alternator an "under-hood generator". It is rated at 160 AH and dedicated to recharging the house batteries. I was told that the engine, a gas turbo V6, can be run for 30 minutes at a time at idle, then rested and then re-run for another 30 minutes (for a total of 5 times per day) and that the "under-hood generator" is designed to charge at idle.

If I were buying one of those (and I am not) I would consider a second battery pack (for 630 AH) and no generator, although that would limit the time the AC could be used. And I have been told that if a buyer declines the generator install (they get a refund) they can then install a 3rd 315 AH Lithium battery for a total of 945 AH.

Wow. Given that I am not sure that a generator is even needed.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Typically with Lithium only coaches they put another alternator on the main engine to aid in charging up the batteries. Thus you wouldn't have to drive somewhere every 4 days, just run the engine for some time. The bonus here is that the main engine is usually a lot quieter than a generator.

Its nice to see the general Li-Ion battery price drops making it to RV options as well..

A Lithium BIM may be an option to another alternator?

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Chance

In a different forum a member quoted Tiffin stating $9,950 price for 3 X 275 Amp-hour lithium upgrade, for a total of 825 Amp-hours. Standard Zephyr is equipped with 6 AGM batteries for a total of 900 Amp-hours, per Tiffin specs.

That upgrade works out to about $1,200 for equivalent of each 100 Ah lithium battery. A little higher than Do-It-Yourself, but not completely out of line given cost of a 100 Ah lithium battery from major manufacturers.

Aren't the AGMs slashed in half (50%) for only 450ah? AGMs are only maintenance free and can't avoid the pitfalls of the usual FLA.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

The entire power process needs to be re-thought.
Throwing a lot of money into one aspect of it won't work... :

Soft start helps and doesn't stand alone.

[Bob Denman]

You are absolutely right!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The_Breeze

600 - 800 kwh? I guess I should be looking at 100ah battle borns differently than FLA? I bought 4 of these and married it to a 2.5kw inverter: https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...cycle-battery/

It was 600 to 800 Amp-hours at 12V nominal, which works out to around 7,500 to 10,000 Watt-hours, or 7.5~10 kWh (kilowatt-hours).

Your 4 X 100 Ah Battle Born, or 400 Ah, is about 5 kWh. That’s a lot of battery capacity for anything short of running an air conditioner. Even then, I’d guess you can power a typical A/C at night 3 to 4 hours.

[Bob Denman]

What if you replaced a 4 KW generator with something in the 2.5 KW range, and used the space saved for more lithium batteries? Top it off with 800 watts of solar, and a deployable series of wind turbines?

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Chance

It was 600 to 800 Amp-hours at 12V nominal, which works out to around 7,500 to 10,000 Watt-hours, or 7.5~10 kWh (kilowatt-hours).

Your 4 X 100 Ah Battle Born, or 400 Ah, is about 5 kWh. That’s a lot of battery capacity for anything short of running an air conditioner. Even then, I’d guess you can power a typical A/C at night 3 to 4 hours.

Half of the 800 you cite. I would have gladly ponied up the extra 200/per for double the watt hours. Thanks for the info.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

What if you replaced a 4 KW generator with something in the 2.5 KW range, and used the space saved for more lithium batteries? Top it off with 800 watts of solar, and a deployable series of wind turbines?

1300 watts of planned solar:

[Bob Denman]

So how have you increased your battery capacity?

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

So how have you increased your battery capacity?

A little. Not sure it was cost justified.

I had 4-105ah FLA under the steps (210 usable). They were replaced with 4-100ah BB, supposedly 320ah usable if I use the same rule of thumb for FLA. LifePO4 should not be drained below 20% capacity. i.e. ((4*100)*.8) = 320.

The BIM and inverter had to be changed to accommodate LifePO4 (more $$). The BIM keeps the alternator from burning up due to the lower LifePO4 resistance. The old trombetta was geared toward FLA (a different charge profile). The inverter likewise. Old charge controller had to be taken out of the loop. 30A main had to be intercepted, routed to inverter and then back to AC distribution panel.

Batts are brand new, so will be some duty cycles (about 10k of them) before warranting replacement.

To the prior, not ready to dump the gen. It's still a failsafe.

[Bob Denman]

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

What if you replaced a 4 KW generator with something in the 2.5 KW range, and used the space saved for more lithium batteries? Top it off with 800 watts of solar, and a deployable series of wind turbines?

There is some weight and space savings between 4,000-Watt and smaller generator (new 2,800-Watt inverter Onan comes to mind), but it’s not much. Maybe enough to add one or two extra 100 Ah lithium battery, and only on new motorhome design.

Since main reason to have a generator is to power A/C or charge batteries (when off grid / boondocking), I think that with proper engineering most smaller motorhomes wouldn’t need more than 2.8 kW generator (2.5 kW when running on propane instead of gasoline).

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Chance

There is some weight and space savings between 4,000-Watt and smaller generator (new 2,800-Watt inverter Onan comes to mind), but it’s not much. Maybe enough to add one or two extra 100 Ah lithium battery, and only on new motorhome design.

Since main reason to have a generator is to power A/C or charge batteries (when off grid / boondocking), I think that with proper engineering most smaller motorhomes wouldn’t need more than 2.8 kW generator (2.5 kW when running on propane instead of gasoline).

I can buy that, figuratively speaking. It's like the laptops I've owned. You put yourself out there and buy the latest and greatest only to be outdone in 6mos time by something better.

[Bob Denman]

Yup! There's only one constant in life: the ever increasing rate of technological changes...

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by The_Breeze

I can buy that, figuratively speaking. It's like the laptops I've owned. You put yourself out there and buy the latest and greatest only to be outdone in 6mos time by something better.

Actually that has been my laptop strategy: Buy the best you can afford as it will be more future proof than anything less expensive. So far that has worked out quite well.

I usually get 4-5 years out of a laptop.

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by Chance

For reference, the Thor Power Pack, also called Re(Li)able Renewable Battery System, has MSRP of $24,994.

From MHSRV:

“This adventure-ready RV features the Power Pack system which includes 2 Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries replacing the AGM batteries and traditional generator, a 3000 watt inverter, 280-amp under hood alternator with an auto start function and best of all this system seamlessly connects with the 190-watts of solar charging!”.


Specs show the standard Tellaro comes with 1,000-Watt inverter, 2 Group 31 AGM batteries, and the 190-Watt solar. The lithium upgrade package therefore deletes 2.8 kW conventional generator and replaces with dedicated 280 Amp alternator and auto engine start, upgrades 1,000-Watt inverter to 3,000-Watt, and replaces two AGM batteries with two lithium totaling around 11 kWh (capacity per a Thor Marketing manager’s interview). I haven’t seen actual battery specs listed. Regardless, upgrade seems expensive to me compared to cost of components.
.

Chance - Just curious. What year make and model of coach do you have for boondocking?

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Chance

It was 600 to 800 Amp-hours at 12V nominal, which works out to around 7,500 to 10,000 Watt-hours, or 7.5~10 kWh (kilowatt-hours).

Your 4 X 100 Ah Battle Born, or 400 Ah, is about 5 kWh. That’s a lot of battery capacity for anything short of running an air conditioner. Even then, I’d guess you can power a typical A/C at night 3 to 4 hours.

One last question? How many batteries made up the 800ah? I reasonably only have room for 4 if I keep the generator and I intend to do that until I've put the lithium and solar through some test conditions. I didn't see the number of batteries in the posted spec sheet.

Thanks.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Actually that has been my laptop strategy: Buy the best you can afford as it will be more future proof than anything less expensive. So far that has worked out quite well.

I usually get 4-5 years out of a laptop.

Stretching mine a bit: