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Old 11-21-2017, 12:03 AM   #21
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Question: How long would it take a generator to charge back up an all-electric coach?
It's gonna take some power to be able to get back home too!
We're not talking about an "EV RV" we're simply talking about using a Li-ion battery pack instead of the house batteries. The propulsion would still be gas or Diesel. The term "electric coach" is being used now to describe coaches that use an induction stove with a residential fridge and an electric water heater (no propane).

However, since you're asking about charge times:
  • The 7.7kWh battery in my C-Max takes about 2 hours to charge up from empty using 240V @ 35Amps
  • The 23kWh battery my old Focus Electric had took about 3.5 hours to charge up from empty using the same 240V @ 35Amps

If you have a 5kW generator you could charge up 7.5kWh battery pack in about 1.75 hours (there is some loss in there). Likewise the same 5kW generator could charge a 25kWh battery in a bit more than 6 hours (again the charging process is not 100% efficient--its more like 80%-90% efficient).
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:22 AM   #22
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Just think if THOR and its crew of ACE electricians were to design and build a fully electric RV....

Kinda boggles the mind 😎
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:42 AM   #23
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Just saw these today. The Xantrex FREEDOM e-GEN is essentially an integrated system that is designed and engineered as a package that should make it easier for RV manufacturers to get it right.

http://www.xantrex.com/email/egen/fl...-flyer-web.pdf

The Coachmen Class B system flyer states it is based on a 600 Amp-hour lithium battery system (looks like 12 Volts) which makes it about 7.2 kWh. The inverter/charger is a 3,000-watt unit that can run everything including Air Conditioner and microwave. The engine-driven alternator is rated at 280 Amps, with 180 Amps available at idle.



It looks like luxury Class B manufacturer, Midwest, is also offering the Xantrex FREEDOM e-GEN.

Midwest Offering Lithium Ion System By ‘Xantrex’ | RV Business

Both of these ditch the conventional generator and back up the larger lithium battery bank with an engine-driven alternator that exceeds 3 kW. Unfortunately, both are displaying Mercedes Sprinter vans that makes adding a second stand-alone alternator much easier than most other motorhomes. In my opinion Ford should follow Mercedes' lead on this and offer a bracket option, or better yet a second HD alternator, on gasoline motorhome engines.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:50 PM   #24
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Just think if THOR and its crew of ACE electricians were to design and build a fully electric RV....

Kinda boggles the mind 😎

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1511268641
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:40 PM   #25
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Just think if THOR and its crew of ACE electricians were to design and build a fully electric RV....

Kinda boggles the mind 😎
To be somewhat fair: Thor would use their existing practices and outsource that to someone that knows what they are doing (chassis from Ford, or Mercedes, or Tesla for that $1B motorhome).

That doesn't mean they wouldn't screw something up while building the house on top like they already do with the existing units, however LOL.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:45 PM   #26
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GM Outlines Possibilities for Flexible, Autonomous Fuel Cell Electric Platform
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:37 PM   #27
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Thanks for posting. Reminded me that government at one time funded a study to develop a fuel cell to replace motorhome generators. Not much came of that exercise as far as I know.

I had not seen much about fuel-cell-powered vehicles in a while, so was curious where the comparison stood at present between fuel-cells and pure battery.

This brief article covers some of the main issues, and suggest to me that as far as supplying electrical power for RVs' house needs, a standard generator, and/or lithium battery bank, is much more likely than a hydrogen fuel cell.

Lithium battery costs remain key, and the article states Tesla is already down to $200 per kilowatt-hour, and it's expected to drop to $125 when mega factory is fully online.

Fuel cells are expensive, and so is hydrogen fuel. Near end of article the cost comparison to gasoline is interesting.

https://www.economist.com/news/scien...head-batteries
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:50 PM   #28
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Yeah I'm not sure of the balance between a battery and a fuel cell plus hydrogen storage. Which really is just another form of electrical storage. Especially if the H2 comes from electrolysis of water in the first place.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:55 PM   #29
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Thanks for posting. Reminded me that government at one time funded a study to develop a fuel cell to replace motorhome generators. Not much came of that exercise as far as I know.

I had not seen much about fuel-cell-powered vehicles in a while, so was curious where the comparison stood at present between fuel-cells and pure battery.

This brief article covers some of the main issues, and suggest to me that as far as supplying electrical power for RVs' house needs, a standard generator, and/or lithium battery bank, is much more likely than a hydrogen fuel cell.

Lithium battery costs remain key, and the article states Tesla is already down to $200 per kilowatt-hour, and it's expected to drop to $125 when mega factory is fully online.

Fuel cells are expensive, and so is hydrogen fuel. Near end of article the cost comparison to gasoline is interesting.

https://www.economist.com/news/scien...head-batteries
I'm a firm believer in fuel technology...
For the future;just not for now.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:08 PM   #30
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Yeah I'm not sure of the balance between a battery and a fuel cell plus hydrogen storage. Which really is just another form of electrical storage. Especially if the H2 comes from electrolysis of water in the first place.
Exactly. If the primary source of the energy is coal, as an example, then I'm not sure just how much either is really doing compared to a clean internal combustion engine.

The nice thing about RVs is that with enough batteries to exceed 24-hour energy cycles, it's possible to recharge 100% with solar (provided there is enough roof area).

Since we don't boondock in a traditional way, it makes little sense for us to have a huge battery bank or solar. On the other hand a system like the new Xantrex FREEDOM e-GEN, or the Volta, or what Roadtrek has been building for a few years may make a lot of sense for us. Whether staying at a campground, or driving around, the battery bank would stay charged up. As long as there is enough juice to occassionally power an A/C or small electric heater overnight, I'd be satisfied. We seem to be getting very close to that now without having to spend a small fortune.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:17 PM   #31
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...
Exactly. If the primary source of the energy is coal, as an example, then I'm not sure just how much either is really doing compared to a clean internal combustion engine.
...
That is the beauty of an EV: When you first purchase it it is as dirty as your grid's power source, but as the grid's power gets "cleaner" your EV gets cleaner without you doing anything.
(In my example the local power company has been installing solar and wind everywhere around here..)

I don't think H2 cars will be progressing much: The infrastructure is too expensive to build out and H2 is difficult to store. EVs all you need is a wire that is already there.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:48 PM   #32
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.....cut....

I don't think H2 cars will be progressing much: The infrastructure is too expensive to build out and H2 is difficult to store. EVs all you need is a wire that is already there.

Agree. Also, I'm not crazy about the idea of driving around with hydrogen fuel. Someone previously questioned lithium battery safety (a legitimate concern), but hydrogen fuel seems worse to me.

If meant to power the RV house, would hydrogen then eliminate all propane? If not, then you'd end up with multiple fuels, etc... Yeah, I don't see that happening at all.

If I could design and build my own, I'd eliminate propane and run everything off vehicle's gasoline or diesel tank. Luxury rigs that run everything from diesel are pretty simple (albeit a little more expensive).
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:04 PM   #33
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But for the time being: gasoline power rules the roost!

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Old 11-22-2017, 12:42 AM   #34
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But for the time being: gasoline power rules the roost!
Oh?

and

(ok yeah the Ferrari won by .02 seconds LOL) and

Won't be long now....
(Yeah that Demon is a beast can't wait to see one go up against the new Tesla Roadster)
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:55 AM   #35
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But for the time being: gasoline power rules the roost!
How so?

Would you rather sleep at night with A/C being powered from a loud, vibrating, and dirty generator with exhaust that could kill you, or from a modern battery bank that powers a quiet and clean inverter? That's assuming running a generator is even an option.

When in a National Parks campground that limits generator use to a couple of hours a day, a system like the new Xantrex (if done correctly) should allow making a few cups of Keurig coffee in AM and running the microwave at night before bed.

Luxury items are often more about convenience and refinement than raw size or power in my opinion.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:08 PM   #36
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Oh?

and

(ok yeah the Ferrari won by .02 seconds LOL) and

Won't be long now....
(Yeah that Demon is a beast can't wait to see one go up against the new Tesla Roadster)
The S is an AWD setup, and used that to get a MUCH better start. (Races are always settled in the first 60': barring catastrophic down-track failures.)

There's little doubt that the $200,000 Roadster will beat the $90,000 Demon. Electric motors make mountains of torque.
But when you factor in the cost...
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:51 PM   #37
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...
But when you factor in the cost...
LOL! Up until the Demon there really wasn't any "inexpensive" ($70k isn't all that cheap for a car) way to get that kind of speed to begin with.

Even the Mustang's, Camaro's, and 'Vette's got into the 6 figures when you're talking that kind of speed.

Having said that: The local Ford dealer has a nice Focus RS on its lot that I've been eyeing...sadly it doesn't have a plug though LOL.
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:06 PM   #38
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It's not the cost of the vehicles: it's the relative differences between those costs...
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:59 PM   #39
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Some comparisons, including the Demon:
https://insideevs.com/putting-the-ne...o-perspective/
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:01 PM   #40
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Look at your source... it MIGHT just have a bit of agenda that it's working hard to promote...
I prefer something a bit more.,.. independent!
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