Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Tech Forums > Modifications and Updates
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-09-2019, 03:20 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Thor Outlaw 29J
State: California
Posts: 27
THOR #16597
2019 E450 speedometer calibration

After installing the 235/85/16 tires on my 2019 Outlaw I started looking into replacing the gear on my speedometer and found out it is all electronic now. Apparently, an electronic calibrator is necessary but I have not been able to find one for the 2019 E450. My local Ford dealer told me they could not help me. Does anyone know why this is not available? I know that I can just stay 5mph under the speed limit, but I also know that it affects my odometer, shift points, and efficiency of the power band so I would like to find a way to make it right.
__________________

__________________
Handy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 03:29 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
ducksface's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 1,229
THOR #13932
Almost any 'tuner' shop can do it for you in just two or three minutes.
They have the computer to rewrite your computer.
Call a 'hotrod' shop.
But
I'd ask the tire place that did the mounting for you before I called anyone else. It's logical they would know someone to do this for you.
__________________

__________________
ducksface is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 09:04 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 27.7
State: California
Posts: 289
THOR #10907
For $400 you can do it yourself and a ton more if you're interested. If you do go the HPTuners route, I can give you the calibration changes needed for that tire size so your speedo will be dead on accurate.

If you're ever up in the SF Bay Area, I could do it for you. I wouldn't be free but it would be way less than $400. (The license fee for me to edit your ECM is $100, that goes straight to HPTuners.)

This is the hardware and software...

https://www.hptuners.com/mpvi2/#custom_form_mpvi2
__________________
Check out my V8 swap roadster video, don't forget to turn up the sound!...

httphttps://youtu.be/2q9BuzNRc3Q
gmtech16450yz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 05:29 AM   #4
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Thor Outlaw 29J
State: California
Posts: 27
THOR #16597
Thank you for your suggestion. I would love to do it myself but I don't really need something as comprehensive as your HPtuner. Is there a reason that speedometer calibrators show up for the F450 and not the E450? Do you think a speedometer calibrator for a 2019 F450 will work on the E450 also? This one is $150 https://www.rockymountainsusp.com/ac.../90015-hk.html
__________________
Handy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 03:01 PM   #5
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Thor Outlaw 29J
State: California
Posts: 27
THOR #16597
Actually, the 2019 E series is not on the supported vehicle list for the HPtuner either!
__________________
Handy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 04:09 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
ducksface's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 1,229
THOR #13932
F450 has a different transmission than an E450.
An E450 cannot be manually shifted up or down through the gear range.
An F450 allows you to select any specific gear up or down.

The transmissions are not, per a respected member here on the forum, more than close cousins. I asked about trans control earlier this year and he responded with the only reasonable answer I've seen on-line anywhere.

Call a tuner or 4x4 shop as suggested.
__________________
ducksface is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 05:08 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 27.7
State: California
Posts: 289
THOR #10907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy View Post
Thank you for your suggestion. I would love to do it myself but I don't really need something as comprehensive as your HPtuner. Is there a reason that speedometer calibrators show up for the F450 and not the E450? Do you think a speedometer calibrator for a 2019 F450 will work on the E450 also? This one is $150 https://www.rockymountainsusp.com/ac.../90015-hk.html
I looked at that and I'm not a fan. I don't like anything that's going to connect inline between modules on the data line. You have to take apart your dash and get to the back of the cluster to plug it in. And since it's going into the cluster, I seriously doubt it's going to work with the E450 dash since it's totally different than the trucks.

On a lot of this stuff you simply get what you pay for. Even at $150, it's not that great of a solution even for the trucks it's intended for. I'm doubtful it's actually doing this either...

Quote:
updates your vehicle’s ECM to ensure accurate shift points and proper electronic stability control.
__________________
Check out my V8 swap roadster video, don't forget to turn up the sound!...

httphttps://youtu.be/2q9BuzNRc3Q
gmtech16450yz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 05:24 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 27.7
State: California
Posts: 289
THOR #10907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy View Post
Actually, the 2019 E series is not on the supported vehicle list for the HPtuner either!
I can't guarantee it obviously but I'm betting it will work fine on your chassis. They haven't changed much on the '16-up E350's- E450's and I know it works fine on the 2017 and 2018 builds. If you get it and it isn't supported, most likely all you'd have to do is email them your VIN and OS numbers and they'd be able to add support for it since the main OS is probably one they already support.

There is another factor with spending the money the right way first instead of trying to save a buck... If you bought the $150 thing or something similar, when you're done with it or if it doesn't work, it's pretty much useless. If you buy the HPTuners hardware, it will always be worth money. There are always guys out there looking to buy them used to save a few bucks. Here's a way you can calibrate your speedo properly AND even do some tune changes for pretty cheap...

Spend the $400 on HPTuners. Calibrate your speedo and anything else you want to do. Then put the HPTuners hardware up for sale and you'd probably get an easy $200, maybe even $250 back out of it. ($100 of the initial $400 is for the license to be able to edit your particular vehicle. So the hardware without any tune licenses is actually $300.) Total cost would end up being $150 or $200. Personally I'd just figure the $400 was part of the price of getting tires that won't leave you stranded with constant blowouts and just keep the HPTuners hardware for when you need to diagnose any engine or trans issues down the road.

BTW you did the right thing by changing those tires. That was a VERY smart move and it will definitely save you from blowouts on the junk undersized stock tires.

Also BTW, I get absolutely NOTHING from trying to "sell" HPTuners hardware. lol. I'm simply trying to help you solve your problem without you having to kick yourself by wasting time or money in the wrong direction.

And ANOTHER BTW, there is a totally free way to "fix" your problem too. You can make the speedo itself read properly by simply moving the needle. The needles pull off with steady, even pressure and can be moved and pushed gently back on without issues. Obviously the downside to that is it does nothing for your odometer or ECM being off a little. Bang for the buck, it's a totally acceptable solution though.
__________________
Check out my V8 swap roadster video, don't forget to turn up the sound!...

httphttps://youtu.be/2q9BuzNRc3Q
gmtech16450yz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 09:41 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Thor Outlaw 29J
State: California
Posts: 27
THOR #16597
Thank you! With all the internet info available it is surprising that this info is not more readily available.
__________________
Handy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2019, 08:15 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 27.7
State: California
Posts: 289
THOR #10907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy View Post
Thank you! With all the internet info available it is surprising that this info is not more readily available.
Most of what I say or do isn't common internet knowledge. lol. I try to put as much valuable information out there as I can, but it takes me awhile to get from one end of the internet to the other.
__________________
Check out my V8 swap roadster video, don't forget to turn up the sound!...

httphttps://youtu.be/2q9BuzNRc3Q
gmtech16450yz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 07:11 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
gnach's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 25.4
State: California
Posts: 611
THOR #6582
Low tech/Low Buck fix- I made the same tire change and my speedo's off ~5%, so I use the Garmin navigator's speed indicator. If you don't have or want one, I've seen GPS Speedos on Amazon but haven't gone that route:
https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=gps+spe...b_sb_ss_i_1_10
__________________
I'm wearing trifocals now but my hindsight is 20/20.
*************
Bilsteins and Sumos front and rear...HUGE! FatMat and Hoodliner...HUGE!
Hellwig sway bars F&R, 235/85 Hankook ATM, alignment...HUGE!!!
Battery watering, 260watts Solar and BigFeets to make life easier.
gnach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 07:30 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: '17-Vegas 24.1
State: California
Posts: 583
THOR #13362
There's also I-Phone and Android Speedometer apps that give very accurate readings
So at least you'll know that when your rig speedo shows 65mph, you're actually going 69mph
__________________
'17 Vegas 24.1
taylorbob1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 03:17 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Thor Outlaw 29J
State: California
Posts: 27
THOR #16597
Conclusion

After reading all your comments, emailing 3 manufacturers of programming devices, and speaking with The Speedo Shop in Santee, I have concluded that the computer in the 2019 E450 must be reprogrammed to make the proper comprehensive adjustments for the larger tires. Unfortunately due to the newness of this vehicle, there are no devices that can do this other than the Ford dealer which is prohibited from doing it. In time there should be aftermarket devices available. The tire size increase is 8.2% and I was advised that a change over 10% can cause issues but that 8.2% should be manageable.
__________________
Handy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 03:46 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
ducksface's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 1,229
THOR #13932
Has the op checked his new tires with a GPS?
That 8.2% would make my inaccurate unaltered speedo, correct.
Mine is considerably off from the factory.
__________________
ducksface is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 03:57 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Thor Outlaw 29J
State: California
Posts: 27
THOR #16597
No, but I will tomorrow when I go to the alignment shop. Good point, it will be interesting to see where I actually stand.
__________________
Handy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 05:26 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 27.7
State: California
Posts: 289
THOR #10907
Take a drive up to the SF Bay Area and I'll do it. You could even send me your ECM and I'll program it and send it back.

Seriously.

If for some reason I can't program it, I'll move your needle so at least your speedo is accurate. My cluster was reading about 3mph different than the input into the ECM anyway and even after getting the input/ECM calibration correct for the tires, I needed to also move the needle so it's dead on.

You have the input into the ECM that it and the trans relies on, but you also have the analog conversion into the needle reading that often is off.
__________________
Check out my V8 swap roadster video, don't forget to turn up the sound!...

httphttps://youtu.be/2q9BuzNRc3Q
gmtech16450yz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 03:27 PM   #17
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Thor Outlaw 29J
State: California
Posts: 27
THOR #16597
Thank you gmtech, I appreciate your motivation to help. I will keep you in mind if we do a trip north. You are not concerned that HPTuner does not have the 2019 E450 on their supported vehicles list? Are you or were you a GMC mechanic?
__________________
Handy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 04:40 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 27.7
State: California
Posts: 289
THOR #10907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy View Post
Thank you gmtech, I appreciate your motivation to help. I will keep you in mind if we do a trip north. You are not concerned that HPTuner does not have the 2019 E450 on their supported vehicles list? Are you or were you a GMC mechanic?
The way the "support" for tuning software works is a company like HPTuners has to basically reverse engineer the ECM to find the code for calibration data like timing tables, etc. They then have to build a GUI that lets us manipulate those tables, save the changes and then re-write the changed data back to the ECM. In some ECM's it's a process that could take years, in others it's a matter of days or weeks. Once they "unlock" a certain OS, they then test it on many different OEM vehicle builds that use the same ECM to see if the basic OS information is the same. Every OS and it's different software variations is then "supported". (Think of the ECM model number and it's OS as the "firmware" and the different model vehicles that use the same ECM and OS but with different calibrations as the "software".) You can have one ECM that has many different OS's and hundreds of different calibration files.

What all that gobblygook means is that for the Ford V10 in the E350, E450 and F53 from '16 up, the OS hasn't changed very much. (I'm assuming this, I don't know this for a fact.) So when you plug in the HPTuners hardware and open the software, it looks at the OS numbers and compares it to it's database to see if it knows how to read it. If it says "yeah, I know how to read that OS because the HPTuners guys have already built the GUI for it", everything works. If it can't read it, what you do is send the OS numbers to the guys at HPTuners and they see if they can read it. If they already have the GUI built but don't have that OS or calibration number in their database, they then simply add that OS as a supported one. If they can't read it, they then try to build or modify and existing GUI that can, and then add that OS to the database of supported numbers.

Lol. That was WAY more than anyone wanted to know! Short answer... The Ford V10 ECM in your '19 is probably so similar or even exactly the same as it's been since '16, that something like HPTuners "should" work fine with it. Just because it's not on their "list", doesn't mean it won't work or they can't make it work with a simple email request once you read the OS numbers.
__________________
Check out my V8 swap roadster video, don't forget to turn up the sound!...

httphttps://youtu.be/2q9BuzNRc3Q
gmtech16450yz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 05:11 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 27.7
State: California
Posts: 289
THOR #10907
As far as me, I ran my own shop from age 13 to 20. (Not kidding.) I did everything from valve jobs to complete body and paint work. I had a few hundred loyal customers and worked every hour I could after school and on weekends. I made sometimes $2k a week in the late '70's, early '80's. But sometimes it was only a few hundred dollars a week. So when I got engaged at age 20 I decided I needed a steady income job so I walked into an Oldsmobile dealership and was hired as a full Journeyman. In 6 months I was the lead tech in that dealership and was consistently highest in productivity and almost never had comebacks.

After a year or so I moved to an Olds dealership they used to call "The Country Club". (It later went from Olds to Pontiac, then GMC and Buick.) It was amazing, it had an excellent owner, good management and a group of amazing techs that didn't fit the "grease monkey" stereotype in any way. We made A TON of customers happy and were known and rated as the best GM dealership service dept in the SF Bay Area. I was the lead tech since I first started there, specializing in driveability, electrical and computer controls. I would also jump in to help the heavy duty, transmission or even body shop guys when they couldn't figure something out. I taught a LOT of guys how to fix things.

For a couple decades it was a really nice place to work. Then the economy slowed, we got a new owner that was more like a slimy used car salesman than a good person, and a service manager that was a textbook narcissist. He took care of me to the end because he knew I made his job easier, but he was horrible to some of the other guys and was also just not a good person.

So good techs with decades of experience started leaving. We lost 3 guys at once, a total of 80 years worth of training, skills and experience. I stuck it out until the the union mismanaged our pension and made it so instead of retiring at 54 with full benefits, I now would have to wait until 65 and even then there might not be any money left for me. On my 32nd anniversary at that dealership, my wife told me "32 years there is enough, you're going in tomorrow and telling them you quit!" (I love my wife!) I, along with a service writer that had been there for 35 years who the customers just absolutely trusted and loved, quit. We jokingly but somewhat seriously wondered if the dealership would survive us leaving, but really didn't believe two people were THAT big of a deal in any company.

Two and a half years after we left, one of the oldest, most trusted (at least the service department always was) and highest rated dealerships in the SF Bay Area went out of business. It was a dealership that was 103 years old when it closed. I'm still "retired without a retirement". I could get a job tomorrow, but my amazing wife wants to repay me for letting her stay home for 10 years and raise our kids so she's working to support both of us for awhile.

Times are definitely changing. Who is going to fix things in the future? True craftsman and people that can actually diagnose and FIX things are going away. Many of the talented guys I worked with are no longer working or in the trade. No young blood is coming in to do these jobs. Our body shop went a couple of YEARS without anyone applying for a job! Service could go months without an application. I don't see how any of it is sustainable.

So yeah, up until 3 years ago I was a GM tech. lol.

.
__________________
Check out my V8 swap roadster video, don't forget to turn up the sound!...

httphttps://youtu.be/2q9BuzNRc3Q
gmtech16450yz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 03:45 AM   #20
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Thor Outlaw 29J
State: California
Posts: 27
THOR #16597
WOW! That is an amazing story, I love it! I respect the life you lived. I have only had Chevy's since my first 1981 Scottsdale pickup in 1986. The fact that I had to buy a Ford motorhome to get the garage in the back was at first a deal-breaker, but I had no choice and people I talked to gave positive reviews on the Ford.

I got to test the speedometer today and I am not concerned about it anymore. It is accurate up until 45mph, then the speedometer shows 61mph when I am actually going 65. The shift points and driving were fine. I appreciate your explanations of the ECM, I like to know the details.

I have been using my local Chevy dealer for about 25 years and am seeing it change a lot. I used to have a relationship with the mechanics, service writers, and parts guys, but most of them are gone and the new crew just isn't the same anymore. I don't have the respect for the dealership that I used to have and do more of the work myself or find other resources to help me.

It has been very nice meeting you and I hope you and your wife have a wonderful retirement together.
__________________

__________________
Handy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 05:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
×