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Old 08-13-2020, 03:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Wiley1 View Post
That's the exact point I made when I started this thread. The only plausible response I received was "cost".

So, let's do the calculations. If a crappy mercury switch thermostat costs $15 but a digital model costs $30, Thor has saved a whopping $15 per vehicle by using junk. But, they have managed to piss off every user who touches it, except that one guy in this thread who likes his.

If the average Thor Motor Coach lists for $120,000, the cost of installing a decent thermostat would be thirteen thousandths of one percent.

I'm sorry, but that does not make economic sense to me.
One reason - A home thermostat wont handle the 2-speed fans commonly found in RVs. They'd have to do without the 2-speed, or install a separate "Hi-lo" switch in the wall which cost more labor, or might confuse us RV owners. lol
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Old 08-13-2020, 04:10 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by gr8rcfan View Post
One reason - A home thermostat wont handle the 2-speed fans commonly found in RVs. They'd have to do without the 2-speed, or install a separate "Hi-lo" switch in the wall which cost more labor, or might confuse us RV owners. lol
That's true. I've seen videos where the installer had to drill a hole in the wall next to thermostat to install a Hi-Lo toggle switch.

The other issue is that a home thermostat typically runs on 24vac while an RV thermostat typically runs on 12vdc.

But, neither of those points is what we are discussing here.
I'm questioning the difference in cost between a garbage mechanical analog mercury switch RV thermostat like this one:
compared to a shiny new digital RV thermostat like this one:
The crap model costs $2 less. Which would you rather have?

So, can anybody explain why my 2017 Freedom Elite came from the factory with an analog thermostat like the one my father used when I was born in 1954?

Or, why do they continue making analog thermostats? Are they better in any way? Except for one guy in this thread, does anybody like them?
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Old 08-13-2020, 04:24 PM   #23
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THOR #11509
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Originally Posted by Wiley1 View Post
That's true. I've seen videos where the installer had to drill a hole in the wall next to thermostat to install a Hi-Lo toggle switch.

The other issue is that a home thermostat typically runs on 24vac while an RV thermostat typically runs on 12vdc.

But, neither of those points is what we are discussing here.
I'm questioning the difference in cost between a garbage mechanical analog mercury switch RV thermostat like this one:
compared to a shiny new digital RV thermostat like this one:
The crap model costs $2 less. Which would you rather have?

So, can anybody explain why my 2017 Freedom Elite came from the factory with an analog thermostat like the one my father used when I was born in 1954?

Or, why do they continue making analog thermostats? Are they better in any way? Except for one guy in this thread, does anybody like them?
I agree. It's a great wonder that the analog thermostats exist in this day and age. As far as the voltage goes, there's no worry if you buy a model that runs on batteries instead of house-supplied current. You can choose from the RTH111B ($23) or the programmable RTH2300B ($30) from Honeywell And, IMO, anyone who likes the old thermostats have never experienced the new ones
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Old 09-09-2020, 04:31 AM   #24
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At least you have control of heater and A/C with two control instead of one thermostat that if something goes wrong neither one works.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:59 AM   #25
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check with youtube. You can replace the analog T-stat with a didgital one from HD or Lowes for $25.00. I have done it twice. First in a 2002 the wheel than in a 2011 trailer. Youtube is your friend.
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by gibbyid View Post
At least you have control of heater and A/C with two control instead of one thermostat that if something goes wrong neither one works.
Yeah, because RV thermostats break all the time.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:34 PM   #27
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check with youtube. You can replace the analog T-stat with a digital one from HD or Lowes for $25.00. I have done it twice. First in a 2002 the wheel than in a 2011 trailer. Youtube is your friend.
Yes, YouTube is my friend. But, what you're describing just won't work in my little Class-C. Why? Because everything sold at Lowes and HD runs on 24vac and everything in my MH runs on 12vdc.

I've seen jerry-rigged devices that claim to convert from one voltage to the other but, in the end, I decided to go with a little 12v Coleman digital thermostat that does everything in one unit including BlueTooth. Simple with big numbers, compatible with my tired eyes.

I've had the thermostat in my hands for 4 weeks but the AC unit cover and control box have been on back-order for over a month. Apparently, some creep went around and bought every Coleman part available from every warehouse in the USA. Nobody can get anything until Coleman starts cranking them out again and they are apparently still trying to figure out how to work while wearing facemasks.

And, while I'm on my soapbox, I'd like to take another swipe at Thor. When they installed the original cheap-ass analog thermostat with the antique bi-metal strip, they saved one or two dollars by using a 2-wire cable instead of a standard 5 or 6-wire thermostat cable. Now I get the fun of pulling that one out and replacing it with the cable they should have used in the first place.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:42 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by gibbyid View Post
At least you have control of heater and A/C with two control instead of one thermostat that if something goes wrong neither one works.
I haven't given any consideration to redundancy. But, I've thought quite a bit about idiot-proofing, wife-proofing, kid-proofing, and dog-proofing.

With one digital thermostat controlling both heating and cooling, I have one place to go for both settings and there is no chance they will ever both be running at the same time.

I've also purchased a relay to prevent the AC from running when the coach is operating on inverter power. I made that mistake once and it depleted my four batteries in about 12 minutes. Never again.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:50 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by gr8rcfan View Post
One reason - A home thermostat wont handle the 2-speed fans commonly found in RVs. They'd have to do without the 2-speed, or install a separate "Hi-lo" switch in the wall which cost more labor, or might confuse us RV owners. lol
That is really good point.
The Coleman thermostat that I bought has that function built-in.

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Old 09-09-2020, 03:00 PM   #30
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So what do you want out of this thread?

You bought a bare, base Class C motorhome with working bare, base equipment.

You decide you want to upgrade the HVAC equipment to work like higher end RVs and ask for help on how to do that.

You receive all the information you need to make the conversion.

But now you seem hung-up on bashing Thor for making your bare, basic RV in the first place.

Basic heat-only thermostats can be purchased for $10 retail, which means Thor probably only paid $5 each in bulk.
Compare that to a digital combo HVAC RV thermostat price and you can see their cost savings.
If the furnace only requires a 2 wire control line and the A/C has its own integrated controls (like RV A/Cs have had for decades) why would Thor use any other control cable when building their bare, basic RV?

Most people take great pleasure in modding/upgrading their RVs to customize them to their wants and needs: it's part of the fun of owning an RV.

You don't seem to be having fun and instead seem frustrated that you decided to purchase a bare, basic RV that doesn't have all the bells, whistles, gizmos, and features of a more expensive RV. You may be better off returning what you've bought, returning the RV to its original configuration and selling the RV so you can purchase something that will bring you pleasure instead of frustration.

Good Luck!
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Old 09-09-2020, 04:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
So what do you want out of this thread?
You decide you want to upgrade the HVAC equipment to work like higher end RVs and ask for help on how to do that.
But now you seem hung-up on bashing Thor for making your bare, basic RV in the first place.
Basic heat-only thermostats can be purchased for $10 retail, which means Thor probably only paid $5 each in bulk.
Compare that to a digital combo HVAC RV thermostat price and you can see their cost savings.
If the furnace only requires a 2 wire control line and the A/C has its own integrated controls (like RV A/Cs have had for decades) why would Thor use any other control cable when building their bare, basic RV?
Most people take great pleasure in modding/upgrading their RVs to customize them to their wants and needs: it's part of the fun of owning an RV.
Good Luck!
Have you appointed yourself as Defender-in-Chief for Thor Motor Coach?
I'll take your points one at a time.

This is my first RV. I bought one that fit my budget and my needs.
I paid attention to the things can couldn't be easily changed later, such as the size, the number of beds, the engine, the transmission, and the chassis. When you see a MH in the showroom, it looks really nice. It isn't until you dig a little deeper that you realize how truly shabby they are built. Every time I open a compartment or investigate the specs on a piece of equipment, I learn a little more about the bone-headed decisions that are taken in Indiana.

I run a business myself. Sometimes we have to design IT systems for our clients. There are many considerations when choosing materials and design parameters including performance, speed, ease of use, reliability, and fitness for a particular purpose. Price is one of the last things we consider. If we can we make a small improvement without significantly adding to the total cost of the product, we do it - automatically - because it just makes sense. So, I have a little trouble understanding why an engineer would put a 1950's thermostat into an $85,000 vehicle. To save $10? Really? Because that is the way they've been doing it since 1950? Really? It doesn't pass the laugh test.

Yes, I do take great pleasure in modifying my MH. So far, I have added a 2500va inverter/charger, an SoC meter, a 12vdc TV, and four AGM batteries. Next will be solar panels. You haven't heard me bitch that any of those things should have been included in a 2017 23H. However, when an RV builder installs a thermostat, they should use a thermostat cable, not a lamp cord.

And now, I'll address your first question. What do I expect to get out of this forum? There are many people here with gobs of knowledge and experience. Before I jump into a project, I want to hear the experiences of others. I may or may not follow their advice, but it is useful to hear. Likewise, when I finish a project, I like to report my experiences back to the forum so others may benefit. Maybe there is a guy out there who is thinking about changing his thermostat, but he decides not to order one after I post about the obstacles I encountered. Isn't that why the forum exists? Actually, I wish somebody had told me about the two wires inside the wall -- I might have gone in a different direction.

Perhaps one of the geniuses at Thor will read my comments and put a real thermostat cable into the 2022 models. That would be a good thing and it wouldn't cost them more than 2 dollars, or roughly 0.0000000001% of the retail sticker price.

This forum has been a huge help to me and you have been one of the people here that has given me some great ideas. Thank you. Please allow me to pay it forward.
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:18 AM   #32
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Have you appointed yourself as Defender-in-Chief for Thor Motor Coach?
Not hardly. Thor has its share of issues, most having to do with construction attention to detail, quality control and quality inspection. We would all be a lot happier if Thor took this issues to heart.

The tone of some of your posts was that Thor was negligent or "cheaping out" when they built your model coach by not installing items that you now wish you had. The thing is: I can walk into the same bare, base Class C coach manufactured by Coachman, Winnebago, or any other manufacturer and see the same items installed in the same way.

It's like going to a Chevy dealer and buying a bare, basic Spark because it was in your price range, but then being frustrated because it doesn't have electric windows and door locks or cruise control like the Sonic LT model does.

But when Ford sold cars their bare, basic Fiesta it was equipped similarly to the Spark and the Focus had models with more bells and whistles; just like Chevy.

So enjoy your RV "kit" as you make it like you want it. Complain about the missed screws, extra screws laying around, sawdust and plastic bits where they are not supposed to be, poor wiring practices, etc that you can certainly attribute to Thor's building practices, but accept the decisions Thor made to create your model RV at the price point that you were able to purchase it at. Change and/or improve the areas in the "kit" that you thing will make the RV more usable for you, and use the RV for adventures and making memories for as long as you are happy with it.

For most of us, every use of the RV gets the gears turning in our heads on what we can do to improve it for our use before we go out again . Some think it's a sickness. Some put a couple of years work into their RV to only get bit by the BIG UPGRADE bug and buy a newer, bigger RV "kit" and have to start all over again with the mods/upgrades.

Happy RVing.
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Old 11-08-2020, 01:34 AM   #33
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Is it possible to get a copy of the wiring diagram? Good thread except for some unnecessary belittling comments by one poster.
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Old 11-08-2020, 05:47 AM   #34
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That is really good point.
The Coleman thermostat that I bought has that function built-in.

Yeah, for $114, retail! No wonder MHs come with the cheap one. Plus someone mentioned confusion if you install a high-low switch next to a $25 home thermostat. You need an owners manual or repeatedly view a 4 min video to figure out how to operate this Bluetooth RV thermostat
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Old 11-08-2020, 05:54 AM   #35
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is it possible to get a copy of the wiring diagram? Good thread except for some unnecessary belittling comments by one poster.
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Old 11-09-2020, 03:19 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Wiley1 View Post
That's the exact point I made when I started this thread. The only plausible response I received was "cost".

So, let's do the calculations. If a crappy mercury switch thermostat costs $15 but a digital model costs $30, Thor has saved a whopping $15 per vehicle by using junk. But, they have managed to piss off every user who touches it, except that one guy in this thread who likes his.

If the average Thor Motor Coach lists for $120,000, the cost of installing a decent thermostat would be thirteen thousandths of one percent.

I'm sorry, but that does not make economic sense to me.
Wiley, I understand your point but.............. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of posts on here making the same argument for countless parts and systems on RVs. Anything from cheap fabric, cheap flooring, cheap sinks, undersized sway bars and on and on. $20 here, $30 there adds up. Thor, and other manufactures build to a price point which means they have to control costs. Many of us are unhappy with some of their choices but we would also be unhappy with the price of the unit if they used higher end parts and materials.
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Old 12-08-2020, 05:40 PM   #37
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followup

This is a follow up to my original post.

This project turned out to be a whole lot more trouble than I expected when I first got the idea.

Because Thor used a 2-wire thermostat cable, I had to run a 7-wire cable inside the bedroom wall, under the bed pedestal, under the shower, under the bathroom sink, behind the toilet, and through a bulkhead to get to the compartment where I could connect it to the propane heater. Wow! I am now able to set a temperature on the digital thermostat and and expect the furnace to cycle on and off to accurately maintain that temperature. Right now it is set to 40F in my driveway, just to prevent freezing. If our Virginia winter is reasonably mild, I may be able to get away without loading any pink stuff into the water lines.

To get the AC unit connected, I had to pull a thermostat cable under the fridge, inside a wall, through the bottom of a cabinet, into the ceiling, and over to the unit. Argh! But, now I can control the AC temperature without getting out of bed and I know that the temp will stay where I set it. Now the room temp is measured where we sleep, not inside the ceiling.

Would I start this project again, knowing what I know now? Yes.

Bonus: Because both heating and cooling are controlled by the same thermostat, there is zero chance that both will accidentally run at the same time.

Bonus2: My new digital thermostat has BlueTooth. At the moment, I can't see a reason to use that, but maybe someday. It would be nice to somehow monitor the RV inside temp using my cell phone when the dogs are home alone.
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