Upgrade 30 to 50 Amp service

Fullabunk · 03-29-2021, 08:16 PM

I have a 2020 4 winds 31Y. It has 30 A service and 2 AC units. I would like to upgrade to 50A service. I know I need a new 50A power cord and receptacle and larger 6G wires. The ATS and main power panel will need replacing. My inverter can handle 50A but concerned about feeding the ATS with 50A shore power and on the other input having a 30A 4K Generator. Is that a problem?

Pete'sMH · 03-29-2021, 08:24 PM

Why do you want to do this? I thought about it when I added my second AC on its own 20A circuit. But it is costly and difficult. If you retain your 30A panel you have more hookup options. Typically I still just use the 30A outlet. If it’s very hot (or very cold, I also put in an outlet for a second space heater) I plug my AC into the 20A outlet. Recently I was at a park that only had 50A connections and I used this device. (There are cheaper versions but this one is impressive!)

Fullabunk · 03-29-2021, 08:33 PM

I have used that device in the past but trying to keep operations as simple as possible and automatic. I am to old for otherwise. Once I upgrade I will be set.

Thanks for responding

Rod

MJC62 · 03-29-2021, 08:36 PM

Did that coach come with two A/C units?

Fullabunk · 03-29-2021, 08:48 PM

Yes there are two 11,000 BTU units. The systems includes load shedding. Since I only purchased recently I haven't tried the AC. On a recent trip I was boondocking in G daughters yard and it got quite cold. I continually tripped breakers with portable electric heaters. Was saving my propane.

DavidEM · 03-29-2021, 08:50 PM

I suspect you are just going to use one leg of the 50A/240V/120V outlet. If so as long as the ATS is rated for 50A I don't see any problem with a 30A generator output being connected. You have recognized the need to upgrade wiring and breaker sizes. I don't think you need to do anything with the main AC panel other than upgrading the main breaker to 50A.

Another way to do it is to get a splitter which has a 50A/240V/120V input and two legs of 30A/120V as outputs. Hook one of the 30A outputs to your coach as normal. Then use the second 30A output to power a dedicated circuit for one of the A/C units. All you have to do is install a power inlet, #10 wire to near the existing A/C panel and then a single 20A breaker feeding the second A/C unit. Only a few component additions and a lot less component upgrades as for your original scheme. The second A/C won't work on the genset, but I suspect it wasn't working anyway.

Good luck.

David

Fullabunk · 03-29-2021, 08:58 PM

The goal is to have two 50A legs and the unit as fully capable electrically as a larger 50 A unit. As far as wiring I will place each AC on separate legs.

My power limitation will be when I have to use the generator at 30A. That should be seldom.

Solar panels will also help.

Chance · 03-29-2021, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullabunk

Yes there are two 11,000 BTU units. The systems includes load shedding. Since I only purchased recently I haven't tried the AC. On a recent trip I was boondocking in G daughters yard and it got quite cold. I continually tripped breakers with portable electric heaters. Was saving my propane.

What were you plugged into at your granddaughters back yard, a 30-Amp service? If not, what breaker were you tripping?

Portable electric heaters use a lot of power, and if you were tripping her household 15A or 20A breaker, a motorhome upgrade from 30A to 50A won’t help at all.

I know this is not what you asked, but above statement seems odd in context and if that’s why you are upgrading to 50A service, maybe it’s not as necessary as you may think.

Congratulations on new motorhome.

Fullabunk · 03-29-2021, 09:45 PM

I had no power connections at all. Chose not to disturb the neighborhood using the Gen. I was popping AC outlet fuses if I used more than one heater and fired up my Keurig coffee pot.

With 50A I can put some outlets on leg one and maybe the coffee maker on leg 2. Each of these 3outlets could have its own 15/20 amp breaker. May have to pull a few wires.

Beau388 · 03-29-2021, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullabunk

I have a 2020 4 winds 31Y. It has 30 A service and 2 AC units. I would like to upgrade to 50A service. I know I need a new 50A power cord and receptacle and larger 6G wires. The ATS and main power panel will need replacing. My inverter can handle 50A but concerned about feeding the ATS with 50A shore power and on the other input having a 30A 4K Generator. Is that a problem?

You are correct than you need to replace everything in the line from the pedestal to the Romex. I did it on my coach an the cost was just over $2,000 including a new Mach 8 heat pump and PI EMS. The transfer switch and power center are PPS (4565). I switched over to CAFCIs in the man panel and used a 30 amp sub panel for all the non-GFCI circuits. It took about 4 6 hour days.

Beau388 · 03-29-2021, 09:53 PM

Here is what it looks like under the bed, before shortening a few cables. I used the PPS 4565 because it almost the same size as the old WFCO power center

Fullabunk · 03-29-2021, 10:03 PM

I just ordered the 6 main items from Amazon for $600. I expect a 20% overrun for miscellaneous stuff. It will take some labor in my wiring rats nest. I have to work around solar system and inverter.

Fullabunk · 03-29-2021, 10:40 PM

A couple of the posts refer to PPS 4565. I can’t find what this is.

TurnerFam · 03-29-2021, 11:21 PM

let me interject, as I'm confused by what you said about 'tripping breakers' in your motorhome - yes, ANY motorhome where you have any 'high draw' item, like a heater, will certainly and easily trip breakers either WITHIN the RV or at the point where you are actually PLUGGED INTO power. If you were on a 30amp RV outlet, with 30amp power, you should easily be able to have at least TWO 750w(medium heat setting) on two different outlets, and still be able to continue doing most other activities, like TV. If you are trying, though, to use the microwave or the coffee pot while BOTH of these heaters are working, NO, you're asking for too much power, and whether a 30amp RV or a 50amp RV the numbers still work the same way on a 30amp Outlet, or even worse on a 15 or 20amp household outlet.

The ONLY way 'upgrading' to a 50amp RV wiring scheme makes any sense is IF you are going to be plugged INTO 50amp 240v RV power for the majority of the time you own the RV. Remember, too, that 'just' having a 50amp shore cord, a 50amp ATS, and a 50amp Breaker Panel, solves few issues if you also don't have 4 to 6 DIFFERENT outlet circuits around the RV. If you only have one or two, like most 30amp RVs, trying to 'rewire' the coach is just going to a big mess!
Also, your INVERTER will NOT be needing or using any 50amp 240v power, it simply access ONE single 120v line, from a breaker in your panel, to provide 'pass thru' 120v power to mainly OUTLETS around the coach, which then are on a 'special' power buss in your 50amp Breaker panel, which operate EITHER from the inverter, or the shore power or generator, when they are providing power.

Beau388 · 03-30-2021, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullabunk

A couple of the posts refer to PPS 4565. I can’t find what this is.

Parellax Power Supply <https://parallaxpower.com/>

This is the current 50 amp power center model 5365.
<https://parallaxpower.com/product/5365-power-center/>

Fullabunk · 03-30-2021, 03:13 PM

Thru Amazon I ordered a WFCO WF 8930 for $90. Since I charge and maintain batteries with my inverter I do not need the expensive converter. I just need AC and DC power distribution.

Thanks for yours and everyone’s comments and questions. Forces me to think over my process. Beau388, you have been a great help.

My parts will begin arriving Thursday and includes the 50A distribution panel and 6/3G wire. I can then get started.

Pete'sMH · 03-30-2021, 03:56 PM

Sounds like an interesting project. Let us know how it goes.

Chance · 03-30-2021, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullabunk

I had no power connections at all. Chose not to disturb the neighborhood using the Gen. I was popping AC outlet fuses if I used more than one heater and fired up my Keurig coffee pot.

....cut....

Thanks for replying.

If you were not connected at all, and did not run generator, that suggest (through process of elimination) you were using your 3,000-Watt inverter to power space heaters and Keurig. Is that correct?

Beau388 · 03-30-2021, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullabunk

Thru Amazon I ordered a WFCO WF 8930 for $90. Since I charge and maintain batteries with my inverter I do not need the expensive converter. I just need AC and DC power distribution.

Thanks for yours and everyone’s comments and questions. Forces me to think over my process. Beau388, you have been a great help.

My parts will begin arriving Thursday and includes the 50A distribution panel and 6/3G wire. I can then get started.

Most manufacturers sell their power centers without a converter. If you work with a retailer you can get a good prices on the 50 amp set (shore line, entry connector, ATS. EMS, power center). Texas RV Supply made me a great deal on everything including a Xantrex Freedom Xi 2000 sine-wave inverter and the Mach 8 heat pump. Since the under bed is crowded, I used 6 awg 19 strand pull wire (THHN) as it is much easier to bend and hook-up. All the connections were surround type rather push or clamp, so bullet connectors were not necessary. I use Romex for all the 30 amp connections (inverter and sub-panel), as the inverter uses push connectors.

Fullabunk · 03-30-2021, 06:48 PM

As mentioned, I will replace the ATS with a 50A one. Yesterday, while looking at the wiring location and solidifying my plan I saw something I couldn't readily recognize. The output of my ATS goes to a 4" square metal box. I failed to take a picture but when removed the top I saw come connectors labeled L1 and L2 as well as others I don't remember.

What is this and what does it do?

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