The pain of being upside down

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Since we sold the Spyder: the Missus had been asking about getting her something that had a real bedroom in it...

So we ordered a Tiffin Wayfarer.

I always told her that I'd buy her a Mercedes... I just didn't realize that I'd have to buy her a house, in order to do it!

Cool! Congratulations. I’d buy a Tiffin if I could afford it. Maybe next time.... hope you’ll still stick around here. I traded my Freedom Elite on a Winnebago over a year ago but I’m in this forum nearly every day. Good folks and good info here.

[Bob Denman]

You know what the Dealers always say: "Six to eight weeks..."

I'm guessing February!

[The Gritz Carlton]

did you trade or sell the Outlaw?

[Bob Denman]

Traded it in... I hate dealing with "tire-kickers".

They gave us $6200 more than we paid for it...

[lazinskm]

Wow. That is the opposite of upside down. Obviously outlaws are popular. The dealership that I use in Tampa is only buying classy outlaws right now from Thor. The other classes are Winnebagos

[The Gritz Carlton]

Is that Gerzeny's?

[lazinskm]

No. Lazydays. Just looked. They are stocking more 19’s this year in four winds and sprinters. Last year was slim

[TyCreek]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Traded it in...
They gave us $6200 more than we paid for it...

So... are you saying they payed you to buy the new rig?

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Traded it in... I hate dealing with "tire-kickers".

They gave us $6200 more than we paid for it...

Appreciation depreciation. Congratulations. Now you got me nervous on the Thor though? Watched some Youtube video where a man dressed in Thor costume, just blasted Thor Motor Coach & Camping World to smithereens.

I got plenty of juice 30 & 50 amps at the house but no RV. If you like, you can have them ship your new unit to Dallas and I will check it out for the first two years to make sure all the bugs are worked out for you and the misses. I know what you are thinking, but don't worry I will pay half of the insurance for 1st year. Don't won't you to think I am trying to take advantage of the situation.

[Laco]

Gritz is correct. Being financially irresponsible will come back and bite big time. Its also, IMO a sign of some substantial character flaws.

[DenverTransplant]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

I have read that the collapse of 2008 was directly related to the federal government forcing lenders to finance people that could not qualify for mortgages. The federal government threatened to charge lenders with federal crimes if they did not stop the process of forcing potential mortgage borrowers to prove they could afford home mortgages. This was an attempt to increase home ownership among lower socio-economic groups. To accomplish this task, lenders packaged the bad mortgages with lower numbers of good mortgages and then sold them to investor groups. Of course the bad mortgages defaulted when the borrowers lost their minimum wage jobs at the local sack of suds. Anyway, it had nothing to do with people that bought RVs.

The whole 2008 collapse was the result of a shell game induced by the investement banks and rating agencies. Watch the Big Short movie to learn about how it really went down.

The actual root cause was a expectation by the financial industry as a whole that housing prices would continue to rise and that equity would develop on loans that were known to be losers - who cares if they pay, we will get our money back and more when we forclose on an appreciated house. This lead to a complete disregard of financial responsibility all the way up the line. Mortgage brokers were making a killing on fees on any loan they closed and did not care who they were lending to The lending banks were packaging up the loans and selling them off so they wouldn’t get stuck holding them. The smart boys in the investment banking houses were figuring out all sorts of ways to grab their piece as the sick cows went past. Why was a Credit Default Swap a good idea?

There was no concern for underlying value, only what cut you could get by passing the loans along. Even the folks that were supposed to provide some reality, the ratings agencies such as Moody’s were only interested in their cut too. Everybody figured that they would pass their risk along, but generally got caught when the music stopped. The Fed and Congress bailed most of them out, nobody went to jail and the taxpayers ended up holding the bag.

[The Gritz Carlton]

AND...it's starting all over again. In 2008, I started a new business restoring bank properties, boarding up half-built houses, bringing "PVC Farms" into local compliance, removing and replacing dead silt fence by the miles and follow-up with monthly cutbacks and scheduled maintenance. I mostly concentrated on subdivisions and commercial properties that had streets and utilities installed but no houses yet. I acquired a contract through FDIC for most of the properties in ATL metro and 10 surrounding counties. In 2012 I early retired from this business ($$$). It was amazing how inefficient the "system" was during this period and how many small, local bankers during this period sold and resold these properties back and forth knowing what they were doing and making millions...laughing all the way to their own banks. As these banks failed and were regularly taken over by the FDIC, who retained the assets, I got calls weekly adding more properties to my agenda. It was very lucrative for me but very sad to see how the organized crime rings operated. As DenverTransplant stated..."there was no concern for underlying value, only what cut you could get by passing the loans along"...it was a feeding frenzy while it lasted and they all walked away. There were hundreds of people that bought homes during this period, lived there for 3-5 years and never made a payment.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by TyCreek

So... are you saying they payed you to buy the new rig?

When I look at what I'll owe: it sure doesn't feel that way!

[Chance]

Seems they do that with cars too. The amount the buyer is upside down often gets rolled into new loan.

I keep vehicles for ever so I’m fortunate I don’t have to deal with this problem.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Same here...10 years minimum. My 2011 GMC 2500HD only has 73K on it...not even broke in. At my age the new matrix is will I outlast it or will it outlast me.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Same here...10 years minimum. My 2011 GMC 2500HD only has 73K on it...not even broke in. At my age the new matrix is will I outlast it or will it outlast me.

And now: it's getting to be an "even money" bet!

[revjeffrey]

I look at it as a "Quality of Life Issue". What cost can I put traveling all the USA With my children & places we have gone in 20 yrs?

These places and events are burned into their minds forever. Hopefully they will be taking their children to the same places & saying "This is where we camped with Mom & Dad 20 yrs ago".
If you take good care of your stuff it will always be worth something paid off or not. Our tradition has always been taking a Family photo @ every Campground standing next to the Lot# with our rig in the background. Enjoy the ride it could End Tomorrow....Safe Travels.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Exactly!! There's a couple on YouTube traveling around the country with two little girls...they are having the times of their lives and the culture the girls are exposed to this early in their lives is amazing. These adventures will mold their lives and help them exceed when their counterparts just get by. Can't remember their names but he looks just like Robin Williams. One of my favorite expressions is..."I woke up looking at flowers instead of roots". We are grateful and accept every day as another Gift...and try to make the best of it...you don't get a chance to redo any of them.

[Pete'sMH]

And just because you are “upside down” on your machine doesn’t mean you’re financially irresponsible. I could pay off my loan but I can earn very nearly the same return on my money as my loan costs. I have gap insurance on the loan and it’s cheaper than full replacement vehicle insurance. I am “paying ahead” on the loan though so I won’t be upside down when I sell or trade in 5 years. My 20 year loan will only last about 9 as I’m going now. Works for me.

[Bob Denman]

It's not what you've got IN them: it's what you get OUT of them.

That; is what truly matters!