Thor Partners With Harbinger On Electrification

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Dan-sr@perra-us.net

The thing that bothers me is that no one is talking about what happens with the old, discarded EV batteries. That to me is the next big environmental crisis. .....cut....

Very true, and much like nuclear power from 50 years ago, disposal of waste materials may be its Achilles’ heel. Having said that, this is an existing problem already because of millions of Battery Electric Vehicles being built by Tesla, Ford, GM, and so on.

I’m not defending or trying to justify electrification of motorhomes — it will happen or not happen regardless of what I think. I am certain that the problems being highlighted by some is no worse than what applies to two Ford F-150 Lightning pickups with extended range batteries. Recycling may be an issue, but if so, it already is. Why should RV manufacturers avoid electrification completely when others are not?


I will repeat again that what I like best about the Harbinger chassis has nothing to do with electrification. It is too bad they don’t build a similar chassis with gas engine for Class As below 30 feet in length.

[Chance]

Found specs for driving range on Harbinger website, and it is just over 1 mile per kWh as I expected. I have no idea where some source got 300 miles.

Anyway, picture of independent front suspension with coil springs, and also de Dion rear suspension with leaf springs, shows attention to detail. Hopefully it all works as good as it looks.
.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chance

Right now, Tesla (100% electric) is the most profitable auto company

Tesla have the same EBIT that Mercedes, BMW, etc BECAUSE it sells cars at top end price but that will not make it to dominate the market, unless we are forseeing a future where only rich people can afford a car and even in that scenario, I don't believe Mercedes and BMW will allow that.

A Model 3 price should start at $21K so it can compete with Honda Civic and Toyota Corola ....
When you can sell cars at that price point and still make a decent profit, then we can say electrification will be widespread....

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Dan-sr@perra-us.net

Just think about what happens when one of these begins to burn....

It is the same story with the CFL bulbs....
"Lets pay more to save the environment ..."they said...
Until we found out that our landfields now are all contaminated with mercury....

I wonder how many times we need to be scammed until we learn...

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chance

Found specs for driving range on Harbinger website, and it is just over 1 mile per kWh as I expected. I have no idea where some source got 300 miles.

Anyway, picture of independent front suspension with coil springs, and also de Dion rear suspension with leaf springs, shows attention to detail. Hopefully it all works as good as it looks.
.

Is this 1 mile/kWh tested or empiric?
If they can achieve that with a class A @65mph that is impressive, nevertheless, you would have to have a 600kWh battery to have the equivalent ICE range...

I like the independent suspension BUT, how much will that cost AND payload?
The F53 chassis shares the line with a huge amount of other applications and would be really dificult compete in cost there, not mentioning match front axle carrying capacity...

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

And the scam goes on, and on....

140Kw battery...

@0.6Miles/Kw that is a 84miles range....
Even if they can pull out the trick to charge in one hour (very unlikelly), who wants to buy a MH that you need to stop every 80 miles and wait 1h for charging????
BTW, Cummins eTruck demonstrator is a port hauler truck (never goes above 30mhp) that has a 144Kw battery, it will not drive much more than 100 miles a day and takes ~10h to charge overnight....

this ev religion is amazing. I will wait until Air Force One is EV.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Is this 1 mile/kWh tested or empiric?
If they can achieve that with a class A @65mph that is impressive, nevertheless, you would have to have a 600kWh battery to have the equivalent ICE range...

I like the independent suspension BUT, how much will that cost AND payload?
The F53 chassis shares the line with a huge amount of other applications and would be really dificult compete in cost there, not mentioning match front axle carrying capacity...

I expect range listed above is for box / delivery van like the one pictured below. Reasonable expectation is that range is based either on EPA City or Highway cycle (or combined), whichever is best for them. At steady highway speeds most non-aero vehicles like motorhomes achieve poor energy efficiency.

GVWR is listed as 16,000, 19,500, or 26,000 pounds depending on Class 4, 5, or 6.

Note independent front suspension is rated between 6,000 and 9,000 pounds, so same range as F-53. Keep in mind there are luxury diesel motorhomes with IFS up to 20,000 pounds, so that in itself is not a technical limitation. Rear axle specs are listed below as well. Let’s not forget suspension design is responsible for lower entry height of 28 inches. That should make a Class A as low as 10 feet possible.

Regarding cost, yes, independent suspension would undoubtedly add cost. However, I would pay a small premium for better ride and handling before I’d pay the same for a motorhome slide that I don't even want at all. It comes down to personal choices.

I’m just sharing what I consider interesting technical information, though I had nothing whatsoever to do with agreement. I don’t understand the anger people express over equipment.


P.S. — Many of these companies go broke, so not much reason to fear them anyway.

.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chance

... I don’t understand the anger people express over equipment.

P.S. — Many of these companies go broke, so not much reason to fear them anyway..

Chance,
No one is angered about equipment but many are (very) angered about all the lies and their consequences imbedded in some technologies that are being imposed over us regardless of our will.

For example, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever if someone wants to consider a tree a living thing and start hugging trees.... BUT... when their beliefs lead to policies that cause inflation, misery and destruction of society, I do have a huge problem with that!!!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Chance,
No one is angered about equipment but many are (very) angered about all the lies and their consequences imbedded in some technologies that are being imposed over us regardless of our will.

.....cut....

Agree, though it’s not all that difficult to separate the technology from the politics if that is what it takes to have a friendly and civil discussion on the pros and cons of this or other “futuristic” design.

I do not want to own a battery electric motorhome (at least not yet), but I can set my personal political opinions/biases aside and discuss the science, engineering, performance, etc.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by HMCSW

this ev religion is amazing. I will wait until Air Force One is EV.

Or maybe just the motorcade vehicles?

[Lt Keefer]

I wish people would just back away from the cool aid and realize that we do not have the grid to electrify recreation. We can not electrify transportation or shipping either. We can barely keep the lights on let alone waste what electricity we do have.

[lwmcguir]

Until a low cost, high efficiency, EV battery is developed, that uses common easily available elements, then we better have plenty of greenhouse gas

We're going to need it for the tree' growth as they are consumed for heat, given the war on fossil fuels

The technology behind current cars and anything EV is old school and why it isn't cost effective

Environmental or sustainable, where does all the mining, recycling, and production for millions of large batteries fit in?

Smoke and mirrors have been used both historically and currently with extreme success

The main difference today is the much higher percentile of population that like the smoke blowing

[Chance]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Or maybe just the motorcade vehicles?

I could see current POTUS in a BEV, though we may also need an ICE fleet to switch over every 4 to 8 years.

Given the short distances motorcades travel, it would not surprise me. If nothing else, BEV usually have more power for emergency acceleration and lower center of gravity for quick maneuvers. Obviously they have cons too.

Talking of power, the Harbinger chassis has 470 HP, which should give it excellent acceleration in light motorhome applications (like size of Axis). That’s one area where BEVs shine, exceeding ICE performance already.

[16ACE27]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2HneqfZGsM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptI6BRVC1Kw&t=24s

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

I have being saying for a long time that our generation is the first one subjected to a massive large scale brainwashing experiment(Television) so we don't know how to respond and most of the time can't even identify the treat...
That lead us to the current situation where we need people with several degrees and pHds to tell us the obvious.... and in many cases we still can't see it even if it is before our eyes....

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by Dan-sr@perra-us.net

The thing that bothers me is that no one is talking about what happens with the old, discarded EV batteries. That to me is the next big environmental crisis. Just think about what happens when one of these begins to burn. If it these batteries are stockpiled without sufficient safeguards a fire could be near impossible to put out. We are already seeing trash dump fires from discarded cell phone batteries, just think of how much more spectacular a high output EV battery will produce. Added to that is the problem that water is an ineffective as a way to put a battery fire out and we are left with just letting it burn, which is what fire departments currently do with EV fires. IN my view any battery technology research must also include research on how to recycle used up batteries.

Currently they are buried along with the carbon fiber blades of the windmills. It also take 500,000 tons of strip mining manned by slaves in China or child labor in Africa to get the metals required for battery production. Massive strip mining scaring the earth. But the current religion is more popular.