Magnitude SV34 Inverter Upgrade and Rewiring for Whole House Inverter Power

[Ottosails]

Originally Posted by Judge

LOL!!!!!

Before COVID we booked the US Boat Flotilla with another couple to cruise the British Virgin Islands through the Moorings. Well that got postponed for two years.

There is a lead boat and then there are 4 Power Cat and a Sailing Cat in the group.

I was ok with reserving the 43’ Power Cat since it was only four of us but our friends wanted the 51’. We were piloting it ourselves so I thought the 43’ would be easier since me and the other guy have only had 30’ boats on lakes and rivers.

This 51’ is a beast! It’s a lot of boat….. it takes all four of us to do mooring balls or dock. It’s a lot of work and really too much boat at the end of the day.

It is cool…. the technology is pretty amazing. The wind was a little gusty and the seas were 3 - 4’ today. I engaged the Auto Pilot and it was moving the rudders 12 - 15 degrees to hold our heading. Without the Auto Pilot it would have been a pain to steer for 2 hours with continually moving the wheel back and forth.

I’ve never lived on a boat for a week so this is a new experience for us. We’re having a good time…. but I think I like being in my Magnitude better!

I'm so jealous Judge - We have bareboated the BVI's many times on monohulled sailboats and monohulled cruisers but never a power cat.

If I ever hit the lottery you will find me anchored off the "Soggy Dollar" at Yost Van Dyke. It's still one of our favorite places to bareboat cruise. Have a painkiller for me and enjoy the island time.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Ottosails

I'm so jealous Judge - We have bareboated the BVI's many times on monohulled sailboats and monohulled cruisers but never a power cat.

If I ever hit the lottery you will find me anchored off the "Soggy Dollar" at Yost Van Dyke. It's still one of our favorite places to bareboat cruise. Have a painkiller for me and enjoy the island time.

LOL!

We were just moored there two nights ago or I would have had another Painkiller just for you!

[Judge]

While I did a little boondocking baxk in July, I just had a great real world test of my LiFePO4 / Inverter / Rewiring Upgrade project from earlier this spring.

We just started our 7-week trip out west and boondocked at the Cracker Barrel in Effingham, IL last night.

We ran one of the A/C units over night, an electric fan, charged a laptop and phones, ran two fridges and made two pots of coffee in the morning. The Victron said we had about 67% SOC of the 850Ah batteries left.

We were drving in full sun for four hours and between the solar and BIM the batteries were up to 89% SOC when we stopped for lunch. It was great to kick the A/C on without having to fire up the genny like we normally would.

I am very pleased with the performance of the BigBattery LiFePO4’s and the Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000. Plus I’m verybhappy that I rewired the coach to use any circuit off the Inverter. It provides so much flexibility.

[LarryD]

Originally Posted by Judge

While I did a little boondocking baxk in July, I just had a great real world test of my LiFePO4 / Inverter / Rewiring Upgrade project from earlier this spring.

We just started our 7-week trip out west and boondocked at the Cracker Barrel in Effingham, IL last night.

We ran one of the A/C units over night, an electric fan, charged a laptop and phones, ran two fridges and made two pots of coffee in the morning. The Victron said we had about 67% SOC of the 850Ah batteries left.

We were drving in full sun for four hours and between the solar and BIM the batteries were up to 89% SOC when we stopped for lunch. It was great to kick the A/C on without having to fire up the genny like we normally would.

I am very pleased with the performance of the BigBattery LiFePO4’s and the Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000. Plus I’m verybhappy that I rewired the coach to use any circuit off the Inverter. It provides so much flexibility.

Judge, just so I make sure I have this right.... you ran the one a/c (plus all the rest you said) on battery only over night using 33% of your 850 ( so 281Ah)? Genny never kicked on? Holy Cow! My bumper just arrived, this is my next upgrade! Wife will be so happy to boondock on the beach with AC and no gen all night!

[Judge]

Originally Posted by LarryD

Judge, just so I make sure I have this right.... you ran the one a/c (plus all the rest you said) on battery only over night using 33% of your 850 ( so 281Ah)? Genny never kicked on? Holy Cow! My bumper just arrived, this is my next upgrade! Wife will be so happy to boondock on the beach with AC and no gen all night!

Hey Larry…..

That is correct! Let me give you some more details.

Now it was not smoking hot yesterday….. temps during the drive out were in the 80’s and the low hit 59. We had some rain and clouds the first 3 hours of the drive and then sun for about 5 hours. The fridges were running on the way out.

When we pulled into the parking lot the sun was down for about 30 minutes and the coach was 78.

I turned on the front A/C and once the coach got down to 75. The wife was cold so I turned it off till we were ready for bed. Her Mac was about dead so we plugged it in to charge overnight.

When we went to bed, I turned on the bedroom A/C to cool it down. I set it to 73. Then I turned on just the fan of the front A/C and that extra airflow helped get the bedroom down to 73 fairly quickly. Once the rear A/C hit 73 and shut off, I turned off the front A/C fan.

We use the front A/C at night to cut down on the noise. Last year I installed the RVAirFlow in it to push more air to the bedroom on its own. I turned off the bedroom A/C and set the front A/C to 73. With all my A/C mods they run about as efficient as they possibly can.

The wife likes her fan running at night when the windows aren’t open so she plugged it in and turned that on. We put our phones on their chargers and went to bed.

I woke up twice and was a little warm. The first time I turned the thermostat down to 71 around 11:00pm then the next time I set it to 69 around 3:00am.

We woke up around 5:30 and we brewed two pots of coffee over an hour. Then called Cracker Barrel when they opened and ordered breakfast.

We had both fridges running and I also had my TMobile Home Internet Gateway plugged in all night too and during the drive out…. forgot about that. I also have 2 cameras inside the coach that were plugged in and turned on as well. Plus the fresh water pump ran a few times and the entry step light was on all night as well.

I was pretty confident from my testing that I wouldn’t need to set the AGS so I didn’t turn it on. But I have the Inverter Low Voltage Cut-Off set to 11.7V and the logs were clear in the morning.

I’m fairly certain the SOC wasn’t 100% when we pulled into the parking lot. I think the SOC was in the high 90’s (97 - 98%) from the BIM and Solar.

When I checked the SOC after the second pot of coffee, it was at 67%. I think its safe to assume I consumed about 30% of the 850Ah over 8 1/2 hours.

We ran the front A/C about 30 minutes when we stopped for lunch today. Then I turned it on the last hour before we got to the KOA in Salina to start cooling down the coach… without runing the genny!

The SOC was 76% when I pulled into my campsite.

I was originally going to boondock again tonight but when I saw the temps in this area were going to be 95 - 98 I started looking at campgrounds. I didn’t want to have to run the genny all night to power both A/C’s. We got the KOA in Salina for $42 w/ full hookups, a concrete pad and shade!

We are doing three 8 - 9 hour days of driving to make it to Granby, CO where we are going to hit Rocky Mountain National Park as the first stop in our 7-week trip.



Post pics of the bumper once you get it installed!

[LarryD]

Originally Posted by Judge

Hey Larry…..

That is correct! Let me give you some more details.

Now it was not smoking hot yesterday….. temps during the drive out were in the 80’s and the low hit 59. We had some rain and clouds the first 3 hours of the drive and then sun for about 5 hours. The fridges were running on the way out.

When we pulled into the parking lot the sun was down for about 30 minutes and the coach was 78.

I turned on the front A/C and once the coach got down to 75. The wife was cold so I turned it off till we were ready for bed. Her Mac was about dead so we plugged it in to charge overnight.

When we went to bed, I turned on the bedroom A/C to cool it down. I set it to 73. Then I turned on just the fan of the front A/C and that extra airflow helped get the bedroom down to 73 fairly quickly. Once the rear A/C hit 73 and shut off, I turned off the front A/C fan.

We use the front A/C at night to cut down on the noise. Last year I installed the RVAirFlow in it to push more air to the bedroom on its own. I turned off the bedroom A/C and set the front A/C to 73. With all my A/C mods they run about as efficient as they possibly can.

The wife likes her fan running at night when the windows aren’t open so she plugged it in and turned that on. We put our phones on their chargers and went to bed.

I woke up twice and was a little warm. The first time I turned the thermostat down to 71 around 11:00pm then the next time I set it to 69 around 3:00am.

We woke up around 5:30 and we brewed two pots of coffee over an hour. Then called Cracker Barrel when they opened and ordered breakfast.

We had both fridges running and I also had my TMobile Home Internet Gateway plugged in all night too and during the drive out…. forgot about that. I also have 2 cameras inside the coach that were plugged in and turned on as well. Plus the fresh water pump ran a few times and the entry step light was on all night as well.

I was pretty confident from my testing that I wouldn’t need to set the AGS so I didn’t turn it on. But I have the Inverter Low Voltage Cut-Off set to 11.7V and the logs were clear in the morning.

I’m fairly certain the SOC wasn’t 100% when we pulled into the parking lot. I think the SOC was in the high 90’s (97 - 98%) from the BIM and Solar.

When I checked the SOC after the second pot of coffee, it was at 67%. I think its safe to assume I consumed about 30% of the 850Ah over 8 1/2 hours.

We ran the front A/C about 30 minutes when we stopped for lunch today. Then I turned it on the last hour before we got to the KOA in Salina to start cooling down the coach… without runing the genny!

The SOC was 76% when I pulled into my campsite.

I was originally going to boondock again tonight but when I saw the temps in this area were going to be 95 - 98 I started looking at campgrounds. I didn’t want to have to run the genny all night to power both A/C’s. We got the KOA in Salina for $42 w/ full hookups, a concrete pad and shade!

We are doing three 8 - 9 hour days of driving to make it to Granby, CO where we are going to hit Rocky Mountain National Park as the first stop in our 7-week trip.



Post pics of the bumper once you get it installed!

This is fantastic. My goal is to be able to run the bedroom ac all night without the gen coming on. I plan on installing ~1000 Ah to be able to do that and would be fine running the gen during the day to charge back up, and then supplement that with as much solar as I can get up there eventually. This give me hope that this is attainable and I'll get to it asap.

Waiting on the tow hooks. Hopefully will arrive for the weekend so I can work on it. Will post pics as soon as Im done.

Safe travels and remember to share your adventures when you have time!

[Judge]

Originally Posted by LarryD

This is fantastic. My goal is to be able to run the bedroom ac all night without the gen coming on. I plan on installing ~1000 Ah to be able to do that and would be fine running the gen during the day to charge back up, and then supplement that with as much solar as I can get up there eventually. This give me hope that this is attainable and I'll get to it asap.

Waiting on the tow hooks. Hopefully will arrive for the weekend so I can work on it. Will post pics as soon as Im done.

Safe travels and remember to share your adventures when you have time!

I think you would be good with anything over 800Ah. I recommend either the BigBattery 170Ah or their 228Ah. I have five of the 170Ah but you could get four of the 228Ah and be at 912Ah vs my 850Ah.

I have 495W of Renogy Flexible panels on my roof and happy with them for my boondocking purposes.

I would recommend replacing your Xantrex Feedom X 2000 with the Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000 Inverter / Charger. It will let you run the A/C without an RV SoftStart plus give you capacity to run other things. It also has a much better charger than than the Progressive Dynamics LI Converter / Charger. You will want the better and more configurable charger for that much battery power.

I will probably create a travel blog on here like last year. We are hitting Colorado, Utah, Arizona and then ending up at the Balloon Fiesta in Albuquerque in October.

[anomamatt]

Thank you for this great thread. It has been really enlightening. I have a new-to-me 2019 Thor Quantum PD31 that I am working on adding solar panels and lithium batteries. So this is quite helpful.

Can I ask a question about your choice of BIM? I know I need to swap out the one I have now. Which BIM did you use? I'm looking at the Li-BIM 225 from Precision Circuits. I think it should be a drop-in replacement for what I have now.

And did you consider changing from BIM to DC-to-DC charger? The latter seems to be preferred by many, but also seems a lot more complex to setup (needing to tie into the ignition, etc).

Thanks again for documenting your upgrades here!

[Dennisemory]

Thank you all for this information. I marvel at your skill levels and willingness to share. We want to change out the microwave for 1800 watt induction cooktop and change the oven/gas cook top for a 1800 watt air fryer. But would really like big RV performance like outlined here in our little 2017 Thor 29M Hurricane. Local RV repair services are not a real option, but somewhere in this great tech world, there must be an option. Any suggestions other than relying on my limited abilities?
Thanks

[Judge]

Originally Posted by anomamatt

Thank you for this great thread. It has been really enlightening. I have a new-to-me 2019 Thor Quantum PD31 that I am working on adding solar panels and lithium batteries. So this is quite helpful.

Can I ask a question about your choice of BIM? I know I need to swap out the one I have now. Which BIM did you use? I'm looking at the Li-BIM 225 from Precision Circuits. I think it should be a drop-in replacement for what I have now.

And did you consider changing from BIM to DC-to-DC charger? The latter seems to be preferred by many, but also seems a lot more complex to setup (needing to tie into the ignition, etc).

Thanks again for documenting your upgrades here!

I did replace the BIM-160 with the LI-BIM 225. It has been working just fine so far.

I thought about a DC-to-DC Charger but the BIM swap was plug-n-play.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Dennisemory

Thank you all for this information. I marvel at your skill levels and willingness to share. We want to change out the microwave for 1800 watt induction cooktop and change the oven/gas cook top for a 1800 watt air fryer. But would really like big RV performance like outlined here in our little 2017 Thor 29M Hurricane. Local RV repair services are not a real option, but somewhere in this great tech world, there must be an option. Any suggestions other than relying on my limited abilities?
Thanks

We carry a Ninja Foodi in our coach. Works great for many things. Might be your easiest solution....


https://www.costco.com/ninja-foodi-s...100848519.html

[Judge]

Originally Posted by LarryD

This is fantastic. My goal is to be able to run the bedroom ac all night without the gen coming on. I plan on installing ~1000 Ah to be able to do that and would be fine running the gen during the day to charge back up, and then supplement that with as much solar as I can get up there eventually. This give me hope that this is attainable and I'll get to it asap.

Waiting on the tow hooks. Hopefully will arrive for the weekend so I can work on it. Will post pics as soon as Im done.

Safe travels and remember to share your adventures when you have time!

Hey Larry.....

BigBattery has a 15% Off Sale through September 7th. You might not be ready yet but thought I would let you know.

[LarryD]

Originally Posted by Judge

Hey Larry.....

BigBattery has a 15% Off Sale through September 7th. You might not be ready yet but thought I would let you know.

Thank you Judge! Im exploring building my own battery from raw cells and hope to be taking measurements this weekend after the bumper install

[mcaz1592]

Judge,

I have not taken delivery of my coach so I am hoping to can answer this question.

shorepower 240 Vac
Gen 120 Vac

Is the coach only using 1 line of the shore-power?

Designing my system and that is my only unanswered question.

Another way to ask the question. How is the Gen circuit split to power each side of the panel?

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by mcaz1592

Judge,

I have not taken delivery of my coach so I am hoping to can answer this question.

shorepower 240 Vac
Gen 120 Vac

Is the coach only using 1 line of the shore-power?

Designing my system and that is my only unanswered question.

Another way to ask the question. How is the Gen circuit split to power each side of the panel?

Shore power is 240 volts AC split phase - that is has one negative phase and one exactly opposite positive phase. Connect L1 to L2 and you get 240 volts single phase. Connect L1 to the common (or neutral) and you get 120 volt single phase. The same with L2.
Your power center has two ganged 50 amp 120 volt CB one is for L1 and the second one for L2. This gives the coach two separate 120 volt, 50 amp circuits. If the loads on the circuits are the same no current flows through the common. If the current in L1 and L2 are not the same the difference flows through the common.
The 5500 watt generators have two 120 volt; coils one 30 amp and the other 20 amp. The 6000 watt and larger generators can come either way (double 120 coils or 240 volt split phase coil).

[Judge]

Originally Posted by mcaz1592

Judge,

I have not taken delivery of my coach so I am hoping to can answer this question.

shorepower 240 Vac
Gen 120 Vac

Is the coach only using 1 line of the shore-power?

Designing my system and that is my only unanswered question.

Another way to ask the question. How is the Gen circuit split to power each side of the panel?

Was traveling today so Beau beat me to the response. His description is correct. Shore power and generator power have two 120V hot legs. There is a 50A breaker for each leg tied together in your WFCO Power Control Center.

The generator on the Omni Magnitude is thw QD6000 so you will have plenty of power when on the generator.

[mcaz1592]

Originally Posted by Beau388

Shore power is 240 volts AC split phase - that is has one negative phase and one exactly opposite positive phase. Connect L1 to L2 and you get 240 volts single phase. Connect L1 to the common (or neutral) and you get 120 volt single phase. The same with L2.
Your power center has two ganged 50 amp 120 volt CB one is for L1 and the second one for L2. This gives the coach two separate 120 volt, 50 amp circuits. If the loads on the circuits are the same no current flows through the common. If the current in L1 and L2 are not the same the difference flows through the common.
The 5500 watt generators have two 120 volt; coils one 30 amp and the other 20 amp. The 6000 watt and larger generators can come either way (double 120 coils or 240 volt split phase coil).

Thanks to both you and Judge.

My design.
L1 out of the ATS into a 3000 Pro to 50 Amp breaker

L2 out to a second 3000 pro to ships 50 Amp breaker

Using the inverters transfer switch to manage the feed

plus gives me 200 Amps of charging capability.

Any issues with the stock alternator? The batteries could potentially draw all of the amperage from the alternator.

What do you think?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by mcaz1592

Thanks to both you and Judge.

My design.
L1 out of the ATS into a 3000 Pro to 50 Amp breaker

L2 out to a second 3000 pro to ships 50 Amp breaker

Using the inverters transfer switch to manage the feed

plus gives me 200 Amps of charging capability.

Any issues with the stock alternator? The batteries could potentially draw all of the amperage from the alternator.

What do you think?

You don’t mention what batteries and Ah. I have 850Ah of BigBattery LiFePO4’s and I don’t have an issue with the alternator keeping them charged with the LI-BIM 225…. but I also have 495W solar that is also helping.

Your upgrade would work but it a little more work and expense than the approach I took. I’m not sure you could fit two Inverters under the bed which would be the best place to put them based on the way you want to wire the AC side. But the problem with putting them there is the length of the run to the batteries. You would need monster size cables…. and Xantrex recommends runs no longer than 4 - 5 feet.

It depends on your end game and the amount of power you need and the size of your battery bank.

I upgraded to the Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000 Inverter / Charger. It was a plug and play solution and let me keep the Xantrex BT Remote Panel.

I opted to keep the same AC input that Thor ran to the Inverter. I used 10ga on the output to a 70A subpanel and split the hot wite to 3 circuits.

I added a 15A breaker for the output to the fridges and TV’s. I also added two 20A breakers for an L1 and L2 to run back to the Power Control Center using 12/3 SOOW. My Power Control Centet had an open break spoy for L1 and anothet for L2. I added breakers there to use as On / Off switches to backfeed the Power Control when I wanted to use the Inverter to power the entire coach.

I have the ability to run an A/C and a few other things at one time…. as long as I watch what I am running on the A/C bus.

My setup meets my needs for the small amount / length of boondocking we do and it gives me a lot of flexibility. I like running one A/C while driving without running the generator. The BigBattery units are great and I think provide the best bang for the buck compared to most anything else I looked at. The charger also works great compared to the Progressive Dynamics that I had been using.