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Old 06-22-2022, 10:16 PM   #1
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
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THOR #3923
Need help understanding charging and load diagram

Hi...

I'm hoping someone can enlighten me when it comes to the converter charging the batteries and how the batteries supply current to the load(s).

After researching many different wiring diagrams on the Thor website, this forum, and supplied by tech support, I noticed that they are all slightly different, and some missing major components.

So, I took all this information and created my own diagram so I could follow it and added more detailed information.

But what confused me is that I see how the batteries get charged from the converter, but how do the batteries supply current to the load(s)?

Does 12vdc current flow in both directions in the latching relay? In other words, does DC flow in/out of the converter?
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:26 PM   #2
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The + side of the house batteries are connected to the converter's fuse panel. This distributes power to all the components through the fuse panel. Remember the converter is more than a charger for the batteries. It is the 12DC and 120VAC power distribution center. All power goes out to the system from the converter.
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:32 PM   #3
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THOR #3923
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Originally Posted by bevedfelker View Post
The + side of the house batteries are connected to the converter's fuse panel. This distributes power to all the components through the fuse panel. Remember the converter is more than a charger for the batteries. It is the 12DC and 120VAC power distribution center. All power goes out to the system from the converter.
Thanks Ed...

I understand what you are saying...but I'm still a little confused. I understand that is a single wire from the converter to the batteries for charging them, but is this same wire going to the power distribution center in the converter to supply all the loads?
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky View Post
Thanks Ed...

I understand what you are saying...but I'm still a little confused. I understand that is a single wire from the converter to the batteries for charging them, but is this same wire going to the power distribution center in the converter to supply all the loads?
No. You need to determine the make and model for your converter and then look in the manual to determine how it is connected to the power distribution panel.
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:39 PM   #5
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No -- the batteries are hooked up to the DC power distribution fuse panel. So the converter charge system sends DC to the batteries to charge them then the batteries send power back to the converter power distribution to go to all the rv wiring.

Here is a booklet on the WCDO converter. Go to page 6 and you'll see how the batteries are connected to the DC load panel.

https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-conte...Manual-web.pdf
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:51 PM   #6
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Also look at figure 6 on page 11 in the book. On the right hand side of the drawing is the dc distribution panel. You can see the bottom of the panel is connected to the Battery + terminal. The top is connected to the battery - terminal. Then all those wires in the right center where it says "To DC Branch Circuits" shows you how that distribution panel takes power coming from the battery and distributes it to all the circuits.

Then there are separate wires going from the charger to the batteries to charge them. But in essence those charging wires are connected to the same terminals that the power distribution panel is connected to -- so electrically they are also connected to the branch circuits.

So if you are connected to shore power but you leave the USE/STORE switch in STORE, power will not be provided to the charger and the batteries will not charge. BUT all the DC circuits will be getting power from the converter and that's why everything works in the RV because is being directly applied to the DC distribution panel but not to the charger to charge the batteries.
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:02 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by bevedfelker View Post
You said...

In essence those charging wires are connected to the SAME TERMINALS that the power distribution panel is connected to -- so electrically they are also connected to the branch circuits.
Based on that, then I am correct that the Converter is not only charging the batteries, but those same wires are providing power to the loads within the converter. So, current is not only flowing to the batteries from the converter, but also the batteries and converter are also supplying current to the load(s) which are connected up in the converter. It's basically just two wires....ground and positive.
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky View Post
Hi...

I'm hoping someone can enlighten me when it comes to the converter charging the batteries and how the batteries supply current to the load(s).

After researching many different wiring diagrams on the Thor website, this forum, and supplied by tech support, I noticed that they are all slightly different, and some missing major components.

So, I took all this information and created my own diagram so I could follow it and added more detailed information.

But what confused me is that I see how the batteries get charged from the converter, but how do the batteries supply current to the load(s)?

Does 12vdc current flow in both directions in the latching relay? In other words, does DC flow in/out of the converter?
Attachment 38266

I fixed your diagram:
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:46 AM   #9
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Ed is right; the converter is powered by a 15 amp CB in the power center (Power distribution center). Younger USAF aircraft Maintance officers soon learn not to try to correct the old man's pronouncements The converter's 12 volt DC output is wired directly to the 12 volt bus (with all the 12 volt fuses). The entire 12 volt bus is connected to the house battery bank by only the stepping relay (use/store- switch or master power) and a 50 amp 12 volt CB. (The CB and power cable are larger in coaches with massive battery banks and larger converters.) The converter is much more than a computer controlled battery charger. The converter is able to power the entire coach's 12 volt power load while still continuing to recharge the batteries, admittedly at a reduced rate.

The output of the inverter is always 120 volts AC, but the input can be 120 volts AC from the power centers CB or 12 volts DC from the house battery bank and is controlled by the inverter's pass through relay.

Solar is wired to a charge controller in the battery compartment and that controller is wired directly to he house battery bank.

The engine's alternator us connected directly to the chassis battery and the chassis battery is usually connected directly to the house battery bank through some sort of charge controller (BIRD, BIM, etc)
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:54 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Beau388 View Post
Ed is right; the converter is powered by a 15 amp CB in the power center (Power distribution center). (BIRD, BIM, etc)
I appreciate all the info...the confusion wasn't so much how the inverter worked; the confusion was with the latching relay, converter and batteries.
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
I fixed your diagram:
This is exactly what I was looking for!! It shows the connection in how the connection to the batters, converter and latching relay connect together.

Thanks!!
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Old 06-23-2022, 03:22 AM   #12
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THOR #3923
The reason I had asked the question I did, was that I was hoping that I could incorporate an Isolator into the circuit along with independent monitor displays for each battery...but I'm not seeing how this is possible.

The first problem is that the alternator charges the chassis and the coach batteries, and the converter is charging the coach batteries when connected to shore/generator. And when the E-Switch connects the chassis and coach batteries together. This results in the batteries being connected together. There is no isolated circuit that is strictly a "charge input", if there was, it would be a piece of cake.

On top of this, the same wires that charge the batteries, are also discharging them.

A while back I installed 3 batteries and a 3-way switch...it worked "OK" but that put 2 batteries in parallel and one spare. I am now switching over to 3 switches so I can select any combination, and if one battery goes bad, I can easily switch it out and figure out which one it is.

Anyone have any ideas...cause I'm not.

I appreciate the contribution to my POST...I have made modifications to my drawing as a result of this.

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Old 06-23-2022, 03:54 AM   #13
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THOR #13932
Someone take out the third battery and make that schematic a sticky.
Weekly we get asked how to wire the batteries.
Referring to a sticky would be easier than the hoops we now go through to answer.
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Old 06-23-2022, 04:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Someone take out the third battery and make that schematic a sticky.
Weekly we get asked how to wire the batteries.
Referring to a sticky would be easier than the hoops we now go through to answer.
Thanks for the suggestion, but this circuit I have come up with does not reflect what THOR installs, and it's not complete.

I haven't a clue why Thor doesn't provide better and clearer diagrams...and even when you find any, they will typically be missing information or different.

Just like 16ACE27 showed and what Ed stated, the 12vdc from the battery goes not only to the converter, but the fuse panel INSIDE of the converter...yet all the drawings I came across showed the fuse panel as a separate component.

I have been wrapping my head around how to install this isolator so my batteries are "isolated" and charged independently, but I'm running out of ideas.

As I mentioned, the nice thing about an isolator, is that if one battery goes dead, you can quickly get it out of the circuit...but the other advantage is (even if rare)..if two (or more) batteries are in parallel, and one shorts out, the battery with the charge will dump all of its current into the one with short. This can create serious problems such as exploding a battery or melting cables. I had this happen to me...one of the tops of my Optima battery blew off...lucky for me, I just lost power.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:45 AM   #15
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THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky View Post
Thanks for the suggestion, but this circuit I have come up with does not reflect what THOR installs, and it's not complete.

I haven't a clue why Thor doesn't provide better and clearer diagrams...and even when you find any, they will typically be missing information or different.

Just like 16ACE27 showed and what Ed stated, the 12vdc from the battery goes not only to the converter, but the fuse panel INSIDE of the converter...yet all the drawings I came across showed the fuse panel as a separate component.

I have been wrapping my head around how to install this isolator so my batteries are "isolated" and charged independently, but I'm running out of ideas.

As I mentioned, the nice thing about an isolator, is that if one battery goes dead, you can quickly get it out of the circuit...but the other advantage is (even if rare)..if two (or more) batteries are in parallel, and one shorts out, the battery with the charge will dump all of its current into the one with short. This can create serious problems such as exploding a battery or melting cables. I had this happen to me...one of the tops of my Optima battery blew off...lucky for me, I just lost power.
The fuse panel is NOT INSIDE the converter, The converter is just a circuit assembly in the lower part of the power center. The fuse panel is a separate assembly on the right side of the power center. The 120 VAC breakers for power distribution are to the left of the fuse panel.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:59 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
The fuse panel is NOT INSIDE the converter, The converter is just a circuit assembly in the lower part of the power center. The fuse panel is a separate assembly on the right side of the power center. The 120 VAC breakers for power distribution are to the left of the fuse panel.
You are correct. I didn't mean to phrase it in the manner I stated. I meant to refer to it as being part of the complete housing, that is why I drew it like I did...it's not "inside"...it's below.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:50 AM   #17
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THOR #9178
You can't get optimum performance from a battery bank with your plan

Best option is correct wiring and bad battery replacement
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by lwmcguir View Post
You can't get optimum performance from a battery bank with your plan

Best option is correct wiring and bad battery replacement
As it is right now it certainly won't work; regardless what makes you think this?
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Old 06-23-2022, 04:00 PM   #19
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Also realize that each Thor Industries plant is it own entity. It seems no two plants use the same electrical components in their elecrical systems and their coach use philosophies are different. Electrical systems change year by year as more electronics are added and more versatile control systems become available.

For example there are simple inverters, combination inverter chargers, inverters with internal transfer relay, and hybrid inverters. All are wired different and have different control panels or no control panels at all. The electrical systems in a 2016 23 ft Freedom Elite is vastly different from 2023 ft Entegra Cornerstone, but both are Thor Industries motorized RVs.



I had the opportunity to tour the Thor MC plant 750 in 2016. It was late summer so the were producing 2017 floor plans. I asked specifically to see the wiring harness shop on the factory's second floor. The assembly room is about 200 feet long and 50 ft wide. The walls are lined with wiring boards and test equipment. In the center were bins of connectors lugs, ties, raps and flex conduit. At that time there were 6 floor plans of the Hurricanes/Windsports, 5 floor plans of the ACEs and 6 floor plans of the of the Freedom Travelers. Each floor plans requires two individual wiring harnesses (12volt and 120/240 volt). The 29 and 31 foot models of the Hurricane/Windsport could be 30 amp or 50 amp, so two different 120/240 volt wiring harnesses for those models. The factory was completing 6 to 12 coaches per day.
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Old 06-23-2022, 04:04 PM   #20
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Also realize that each Thor Industries plant is it own entity. It seems no two plants use the same electrical components in their elecrical systems and their coach use philosophies are different. Electrical systems change year by year as more electronics are added and more versatile control systems become available.
Ahh...I didn't know that. Explains why there are so many diagrams that are so different. Must have been interesting to take a tour!

I look at all the wiring in my coach that is under the bed and I have to shake my head in how it's just a rat's nest.
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